Looking For A Signal Chain Utility

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Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

Hello reasontalk. So I'm trying to figure out if this exists. While making some multi FX combinators, I'd like to quickly switch the order of 3 or 4 racks. For example, lets say I have a signal chain that goes: distortion -> compression -> delay. Instead of having to rewire the order, id like to turn a knob to change it to: distortion -> delay -> compression. or compression -> delay -> distortion, etc.

I can imagine it looking something like Morfin XF Crossader, except for the signal chain knob instead of the crossfader. If I did the math right, with 4 device slots, there's 24 possible signal chain combinations. With 3, I think theres only 6 possible combinations.

Obviously, the back of this device would need the outputs and inputs for the inserts and the main input and output signal. This could save cpu and have some creative results too.

I think i've more or less described what I'm looking for. I cant really think a way to do this with stock devices, so If anyone knows of a device like this I'd love to get it. Thanks!

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 29 Oct 2023

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Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

I can't figure out how to do this with splitters and mergers. How would I go about doing it?

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 29 Oct 2023

You put a merger before each FX and a splitter after each. Then you connect the output of each FX, via the splitter after it, to the input of every other FX, through the splitter that comes before it. With a single splitter and merger per FX, you can route four FX in any combination. When you have wired everything up, you need to use a rotary or slider on the combinator, and set it to the number of zones to set all the switches for each combination.
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Bes
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Post 29 Oct 2023

ReSwitcher 9$ this maybe
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Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

Bes wrote:
29 Oct 2023
ReSwitcher 9$ this maybe
Yea this is the closest thing to what i'm thinking of. Except the reswitcher has 1 input --> 4 outputs. I'm looking for 1 input --> 1 output, with 3 or 4 inserts in between, where we can switch the order of those inserts with 1 knob

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huggermugger
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Post 29 Oct 2023

This isn't what you're looking for because it's for routing CV not audio. But it's a patchbay, patchable from the front. I'm pretty sure there's no audio equivalent. Someone really needs to make an audio patchbay.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... cv-router/
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joeyluck
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Post 29 Oct 2023

I know this isn't the solution you are looking for, but just to be sure, are you aware of holding Shift while dragging a device to reroute it? I still think it would be good for them to present this as a preference, in which the current behavior of holding Shift could be the default, but you could also toggle it so that it does the inverse (rerouting happening automatically when moving devices and holding Shift would maintain routing).

That said, a "ReRoute" utility could be cool. I imagine something with a nice custom display on the front with little blocks where you can label, bypass each effect, and drag to reorder the effects, like you can do on some REs that have effects sections. And then in addition to dragging, there could be some buttons to toggle through all of the possible orders.

Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

joeyluck wrote:
29 Oct 2023
I know this isn't the solution you are looking for, but just to be sure, are you aware of holding Shift while dragging a device to reroute it? I still think it would be good for them to present this as a preference, in which the current behavior of holding Shift could be the default, but you could also toggle it so that it does the inverse (rerouting happening automatically when moving devices and holding Shift would maintain routing).

That said, a "ReRoute" utility could be cool. I imagine something with a nice custom display on the front with little blocks where you can label, bypass each effect, and drag to reorder the effects, like you can do on some REs that have effects sections. And then in addition to dragging, there could be some buttons to toggle through all of the possible orders.
yea I'm aware of holding shift to reroute. I'm thinking about this as a creative utility that you can automate. you explained it perfectly in your 2nd paragraph!

Bes
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Post 29 Oct 2023

what are all the ways anyway

ABCD BACD BADC ABDC
BCDA CBDA CBAD BCAD
CDAB DCAB DCBA CDBA
DABC ADBC ADCB DACB

maybe?
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Bes
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Post 29 Oct 2023


lol
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selig
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Post 29 Oct 2023

joeyluck wrote:
29 Oct 2023
That said, a "ReRoute" utility could be cool. I imagine something with a nice custom display on the front with little blocks where you can label, bypass each effect, and drag to reorder the effects, like you can do on some REs that have effects sections. And then in addition to dragging, there could be some buttons to toggle through all of the possible orders.
I had imagined a device that has a 'chain' function instead of EVERY possible order (that would make no sense because you likely already know the order you want, and then you have to consult the list to see where the order of your closing is located.

OTOH, the ability to program your 'favorites' and rotate through or select from that 'collection' would be more useful I would think. You'd still have your list of every possibility, but you'd only need it to make the initial setup or if you need to make changes. For example, if you're building an amp simulator and need to switch between three different orders of distortion and tone stacks, a device like this would make total sense. That said, it's really something that should be included in the combinator, along with radio buttons/stepped controls and some sort of metering solution IMO!
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Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

Bes wrote:
29 Oct 2023
what are all the ways anyway

ABCD BACD BADC ABDC
BCDA CBDA CBAD BCAD
CDAB DCAB DCBA CDBA
DABC ADBC ADCB DACB

maybe?
Ok i think this is it. for 4 inserts (24 Combinations):
1234 1243 1324 1342 1423 1432
2134 2143 2314 2341 2413 2431
3124 3142 3214 3241 3412 3421
4123 4132 4213 4231 4312 4321

3 Inserts (6 Combinations):
123 132
213 231
312 321

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selig
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Post 29 Oct 2023

Bes wrote:
29 Oct 2023
what are all the ways anyway

ABCD BACD BADC ABDC
BCDA CBDA CBAD BCAD
CDAB DCAB DCBA CDBA
DABC ADBC ADCB DACB

maybe?
There are six possibilities for each member of the collection (because we are effectively only looking at three unique characters), so for A:
ABCD
ABDC
ACBD
ACDB
ADCB
ADBC
Since there are four members of the group, times six in each group and you get 24 total.

Quicker to do the math for all combinations with four members: 4x3x2x1=24

For three members it is 3x2x1=6. Super easy to remember too!

[Sorry, wrote this while the above was posted, nothing to see here…]
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joeyluck
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Post 29 Oct 2023

selig wrote:
29 Oct 2023
joeyluck wrote:
29 Oct 2023
That said, a "ReRoute" utility could be cool. I imagine something with a nice custom display on the front with little blocks where you can label, bypass each effect, and drag to reorder the effects, like you can do on some REs that have effects sections. And then in addition to dragging, there could be some buttons to toggle through all of the possible orders.
I had imagined a device that has a 'chain' function instead of EVERY possible order (that would make no sense because you likely already know the order you want, and then you have to consult the list to see where the order of your closing is located.

OTOH, the ability to program your 'favorites' and rotate through or select from that 'collection' would be more useful I would think. You'd still have your list of every possibility, but you'd only need it to make the initial setup or if you need to make changes. For example, if you're building an amp simulator and need to switch between three different orders of distortion and tone stacks, a device like this would make total sense. That said, it's really something that should be included in the combinator, along with radio buttons/stepped controls and some sort of metering solution IMO!
Oh yeah I would think dragging to reorder would be most intuitive.

The idea I mentioned of an option to toggle would be for experimentation and not necessarily trying to land on a specific order and to maybe hear an order of effects you otherwise may not have tried.

Abstrax
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Post 29 Oct 2023

joeyluck wrote:
29 Oct 2023
The idea I mentioned of an option to toggle would be for experimentation and not necessarily trying to land on a specific order and to maybe hear an order of effects you otherwise may not have tried.
this! I wanna throw a sample and hold LFO on the signal chain selector knob (or whatever it should be called) and just let it ride. Similar to the way a lotta FM synths have all the algorithm options on 1 knob

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joeyluck
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Post 29 Oct 2023

Here's a rough little mockup. Maybe something along the lines of this could be done? I used Selig's own NoteView as a starting point.

I went with 8 effects because why not? :D

ReRoute.png

With this idea, your options would be:
  • Click and drag to rearrange
  • Up/Down arrows cycle through all the possible permutations
  • Left/Right arrows is a carousel, which keeps the order, but moves them together (e.g. moving right, 1 becomes 2 and 8 becomes 1)
  • Center button randomizes the order
Other features:
  • Toggle on/off each effect
  • Customize labels
  • Enable/bypass all effects
  • The small display just shows the order (based on cable routing). I think if it's a dropdown it could be nuts lol
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Abstrax
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Post 30 Oct 2023

Image

the number of possible combinations of 8 FXs lol. cool mockup for sure

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joeyluck
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Post 30 Oct 2023

Abstrax wrote:
30 Oct 2023
Image

the number of possible combinations of 8 FXs lol. cool mockup for sure
Yeah 40,320 😂

Could have a ReRoute Lite and XL

Bes
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Post 30 Oct 2023

if anyone builds this please also enable it to distribute control voltage too

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antic604
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Post 30 Oct 2023

Perhaps this can be useful in some use-cases?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449
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Abstrax
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Post 31 Oct 2023

I spent some time figuring out how to make it with stock devices, kinda. I think I figured it out with 2 FXs but 3 FXs was much harder. Using 2 switches, I could only get these 4 combinations: A->B->C, B->A->C, C->A->B, C->B->A. 4 out of the 6 possible combos aint bad tho.

Still a fun experiment. You can drop your devices on/after the P-EQ2's labeled FX A, B, or C and it's all set up to build some combinators. The EQs are just place holders. I tried to make it intuitive so the 'PRE SWAP EQ' MClass Equalizer is set before the chain swap, and 'POST SWAP EQ' is set after the swap
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turn2on
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Post 01 Nov 2023

You can use not only ReSwitcher, but also ReSwitch IN
Bundle is here: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... ch-bundle/

But this is easy to build RE in the same way with optional selection of 4-channels variable routing to stereo out (4in / 1out stereo) to organize FX-chain loop.
I plan to make it after this 2 Reswitch In / Out utilities, and forgot.. but have already prepared project for this.
If this interesting, this is easy to build as RE.

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jam-s
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Post 01 Nov 2023

EDIT:


This RE here is pretty much exactly what the OP wants: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... cts-mixer/

In serial mode you can connect 4 FX and change the order of them using the selector. I'm not sure if it can be controlled from a combinator or with remote override, but adding this might just be a minor task for bcase in case it cannot be done right now.

The manual can be found here: https://www.bcase.fr/support

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selig
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Post 01 Nov 2023

joeyluck wrote:
30 Oct 2023
Abstrax wrote:
30 Oct 2023
the number of possible combinations of 8 FXs lol. cool mockup for sure
Yeah 40,320 😂

Could have a ReRoute Lite and XL
Damn that’s the perfect name - why isn’t this already a thing?!?

Dream mode: [ON]
I built a Combinator years ago that had 8 FX slots and used the 8 white keys in the C scale to activate them. This allows you to momentarily and rhythmically effect the sound simply by playing notes on the keyboard. The black keys were used as modifiers for certain effects. The FX order was, however, fixed.

But how cool would it be if the ORDER of the FX was controlled by the order you played the notes? It might take some careful editing to fine tune the order (notes would have to be at least one clock apart to control the FX order). Not even sure how this would/could be done at the Combinator level… Ideally you could ‘freeze’ any order as it was played, and then create a preset/chain, using the keys only to set the initial order (much like you can step enter notes on some sequencers just by playing each note in the proper order). Then why not use the next octave of 8 white keys to select the “presets” either live or to create chains!

You may still want to drag things around on the UI, but this “performance” mode could be pretty cool, and a quicker way to audition specific orders rather than dragging stuff around - you wouldn’t even need to stop playback, just play notes in different orders until you hear something interesting, then save the routing, repeat. :)
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