In search for the perfect Drum Machine

[electrofux]

I would love to see a new approach to a drum machine Rack Extension. I have developed some rather specific but for me fundamental "needs" that are probably not important to everyone but maybe.

First of all it needs to be fully remotable. Second it needs to incorporate its own sample sets either hardwired into it like the 1000 samples in Knock or batch importable like in Mimic (you can import 96 samples per slot as a sliced file). These two features are linked together in the way i like to start making Drumsets which i explain below.

Currently i am using indeed Knock but i yearn for a more modern or variable sample set. When i start and am not sure where to go with samples i just drop a Beatmap on Knock hit run and listen to the produced beat. I then use my remote controller (Launchpad) to select any number of channels of Knock and hit randomize on the Sample Selection (either in type liek BD,CP, CH etc. or copletely random per slot). That function is inbuilt on my remote codec and only possible because there is a parameter on Knock which selects the sample per slot. That way i get a completely new drumset each time i hit ranomize. When i like some samples i exclude them from the next randomization process and progress untill i have a drumset of my liking. And the happens very fast and you traverse many styles by doing this.

I know thats a rather unconventional way to go at things but i find this a more fluid, fun and inspiring workflow to start things off compared to using the browser (clicking, dragging, dropping, waiting for loading.) or loading static premade sets of which there are mostly limited numbers available.

Sadly Knock is the only RE that i know of that can do this. But maybe i am not aware of something. I first thought i could do this with Mimic which would be perfect as it also has some major sample mangling capabilities but you cant trigger sliced samples in the different slots at the same time- There is no multi slices option - only multi and multi pitch and there also aren't Gate/Cvs for the different slots. A Combi with alot of NN19s is also not perfect because with the current limit of 32 rotaries you would only get 4 parameters per slot (i assume an 8slot Drummachine).

So maybe someone has an idea of a Rack Extension that i have overlooked or a way to stick things together in Combinator or a dev likes the idea for a new Rack Extension. Lemme know.

[bitley]

ReDrum is unbeatable for its built in sequencer and all the patterns really. A drum machine must always do everything ReDrum does and more. It should be a template.

[electrofux]

Redrum with step conditions (i love those) and the stuff i laid out above would be nice. But Redrum is a native device and it cant even be rebuilt in Re format.

[bitley]

Question is whether eyecandy is something usable... Kong is great but the lack of seq is not a drum "machine" to me.

[electrofux]

While i love good sequencers and having them integrated into the Drumsampler, thats not my main issue. I am more looking into the way samples are integrated aside from the browser.

[electrofux]

For example Mimic is super close. If you could just dump a large amount of samples into each of the 8 slots and then select the sample that a slot plays via a single control all would be fine and dandy i guess.
But yeah you get close with the slice mode and then selecting the sample via note number but that only works for one slot per device and not all 8 at the same time. Technically its all in there (though you cant just dump a bunch of samples and must first drop them on an audiotrack and then export them as one slicable sample). Its just not forseen to have it work like that.

The same would be for Kong if you coud add a big Rex File per pad with loads of samples and then have a (remotable) control that defines which slice the pad triggers. Sounds like a no brainer but then again....

[huggermugger]

My go-to for sampled drums is NI Polyplex. It has randomization all over the place. You can randomize all the parameters of a particular drum at once [1], or specific parameters such as the sample, drawn from a wide range of built-in samples in a particular category [2]. Categories are Kick, Snare/Clap, Hats, Cym/Perc, Tom/Perc, and two OneShot, plus a User category [3]. You can also replace the embedded drums in any category (e.g. replace some or all of the built-in Kick drums with your own) up to a max of 128 samples per category.

[selig]

I don't have/know that machine (Knock) but I like the way you describe your sample browsing technique for building a kit.
You can do similar things with PolyPlex, which I DO have – so thanks for the inspiration (everyone)!

[PhillipOrdonez]

That technique works great on nnxt. Is the way MJ Cole works.

You could technically instead of importing those into mimic, turn them into rex files and use Dr octo rex for that, no? What would you be missing from that?

[electrofux]

Polyplex sounds interesting, i fear though that it is not very remotable (that is something i want not only because i can program in the random stuff in - im just not into clicking around so much). But i might be wrong. Can you maybe export the remote info for that and post it here?

Thats also the issue for the NN-XT/19/Rex Solution. For a proper Drummachine one would have to stitch together 8 of these into a combinator and link combinator controls to the samplers inside in order to have one machine that can then be remote controlled with one remote codec (needed for simplicity and to random all at once). BUT then you only get 4 controls per drumchannel (combi has a limit of 32 pots) which would cover the mere basics.

For years i disliked the way samples get selected in Reason. You either have these tiny up and down arrows that are not remotable or you use the browser. And then sample loading is also not very fast, you do alot of draggin and dropping or create additional devices by accident

So i did over the time use a pletora of NN19/XT variants, in combinator or standalone ones with a remote codec for each of them or a Modpanel as the interface etc. etc. All very complicated. Then came Knock this ugly drummachine with a Gazillion of parameters. But it was the first drummachine with 1000 samples on board and a selector. When i had this on my Launchpad it was fun already. And then one day i thought, hey why not have one button to pick a random sample out of the thousands for each slot and this kindof evolved to a more detailed random function which is now something i dont wanna miss out on.

But like i said the samples are not very modern. Its ok and the device was an absolute steal when it was available. But last week i for the first time used Mimic and it looked like this is it but then it just fell short due to the "missing" multi slice mode. So i am on the hunt again.

[electrofux]

Installing Polyplex... or rather Native Access-->Kontakt Player--> Polyplex. Got reminded why i like Reason and Rack extensions

But i f that works i make an exception.

Edit: 15 minutes later Native Access: Dependancy installation process is taking longer than expected. Lol the VST World.

[electrofux]

Got the Polyplex running on my officecomputer. It wasnt exactly a straightforward installation but whatever.

Like i feared the deciding parameters eg the sample selection slider are not remotable as are the category selectors and alot of other stuff. I have no idea why that is. But when it comes to remote there have been so many weird decisions on other devices before (like the mutate button on pattern mutator?) that i stopped wondering.

The sounds that come with it are nice though and if i would be a mouse/click guy that would be it. It is doing exactly what i am looking for.

But i am a controller guy and want to minimize any mouse operation (at least when starting off) and it has so much tiny stuff you need to click on. So it was a very nice try but it is no for me.

Reasonstudios, if you hear me: Multi Slice Mode in Mimic, which can play the per slot selected slice (selector remotable please). Optional gate ins for the slots or inbuilt randomization options for the slice selectors would round it up. Just code it in

[Mataya]

I think you should invest in XLN XO and you should be happy.

M

[electrofux]

I think you should invest in XLN XO and you should be happy.

M

That's quite a piece of software. Didnt even know something like this exists. Also stumbled over Atlas which seems to be similar in concept. And the concept like with Polyplex is really what i am looking for. It's just these programs are still designed to click your way through just in a more supported manner. I am just speculating here that XO is not as remotable as i need it and will definitly check that out but it looks by the huge featureset and parameters that its most likely made for the mouse clickers.

I just need my 8 drumpads that flicker with the beat and a few more pads on my controller to select channels for sample randomisation and then i hit the randomize pad and get a new set without even looking at the computerscreen. Then i press two pads simultaneously and hit switch and the two sounds switch their channel and so on. With the 8 encoders on my controller i can then sculpt the sounds further. The app itself doesnt even need to have the randomisation function built in, it just needs to pick the samples from a remotable pointer. EG if that sample slider in Polyplex would be remotable like the 2 other sliders next to it, it would have imediatly landed in my shopping cart. But for some reason it is not. But keep ideas coming. it is much appreciated.

[electrofux]

Oh man, i have been experimenting alot in the last few days and found some nice solutions that gets very near to the point where you could have 8 sliced sample sets in the 8 slots of Mimic, drop a BeatMap on it and can control the individual slice being played per slot - so that it behaves like an 8slot Drumplayer with 100 samples loaded per slot.

I dont need a Multi Slice Mode like mentioned before because in Multi Mode slices still exist and the Start Position can be used to position (even remotely) to the desired slice thanks to the "snap to slice" function. Now there is still a last issue and a half and that is in Multi Mode the playback in a slot doesnt stop after the slice. It will go on playing until a retrigger.

So it would "just" need either an option to only play back one slice or the option to automatically snap the End Position at the current slices (depending on the start position) end. Both would work. So close....

Also the "snap to slices" function does not allways position the Start Position where it should snap (at the slice) - only the playback position allways snaps at the slice. It sometimes finds snap positions where there is no slice marker which is weird and maybe even a bug. EG when you have a sample of two Cymbals in the slot and two corresponding slice markers and then you control the Start Postion via a Combinator Knob you can get more than two possible values because sometimes it finds a snap point in between where actually no slice marker is present.

Btw a combi with 8 Mimics and sample randomisation is nearly done. But using just one Mimic for the same would be alot cooler and would give me remote access to a lot more parameters because it wouldnt be dependant on a combinator.

[PhillipOrdonez]

There's a button you might have on which allows for the to keep playing, you need to turn that off, though i think that's off by default on the initialized patch. Or adjust the envelope release to very short or zero, maybe?

[electrofux]

The "Play Through" button you mean? It doesnt do the trick either on or off.

[PinkSlime]

have you checked out Emergent Drums? https://audialab.com/

I know the price is high, but i think it has the functionalities you are looking for. It leans more towards electronic music, not physical modeling and is very fast and intuitive to use, especially for percussion.

[electrofux]

have you checked out Emergent Drums? https://audialab.com/

I know the price is high, but i think it has the functionalities you are looking for. It leans more towards electronic music, not physical modeling and is very fast and intuitive to use, especially for percussion.

Thats another interesting one. It is expensive though and they dont offer a demo, so i cant check if the parameters are remotable. But they say they are working on providing a demo.