True microtonal poly-paraphonic synthesizer

[Whoopdee]

My frustrations with lack of native microtonal support in the Reason environment led to some new discoveries. That I actually enjoy the ability to have full signal control over every note in a synthesizer. Even if a developer decided to add microtonal support in their synth, I decided I'd rather do things this way, as it gives me full control over everything. The only issue is I can't go more than -/+ 50 cents per note without dropping a note down one octave, raising it by 11 semi-tones and fine tuning the pitch upwards to achieve more negative values, or raising the notes one semitone and fine tune the pitch to achieve more positive units. Also the 35 potentiometer limitation of the Combi2, lack of copy/paste functions to save time building these megasynths.

I realized this is getting out of hand and I hope an RE dev out there could create drop-down UI with access to every note and a peak led notification for each output to let us know which notes are being played.

Until then, the madness continues....

[Whoopdee]

working on this one right now

[_andreypetr_]

I've just read this and an idea came to me.
You can use Speo Map 64 rack extension to set up any pitch control you need. Do you know this device?

[Whoopdee]

I've just read this and an idea came to me.
You can use Speo Map 64 rack extension to set up any pitch control you need. Do you know this device?

Not familiar with this device, but I will give it a try. Thank you!

However, it doesn't solve my newfound desire to have signal path control over every note. the ability to add effects per-note is a new frontier for me in mixing. Want an opto comp on the lowest group of notes without destructive multi-band splitting? A different flavor of reverb on that ONE note that really hits you in the feels? Phaser on a random note? Done

[_andreypetr_]

I've just read this and an idea came to me.
You can use Speo Map 64 rack extension to set up any pitch control you need. Do you know this device?

Not familiar with this device, but I will give it a try. Thank you!

However, it doesn't solve my newfound desire to have signal path control over every note. the ability to add effects per-note is a new frontier for me in mixing. Want an opto comp on the lowest group of notes without destructive multi-band splitting? A different flavor of reverb on that ONE note that really hits you in the feels? Phaser on a random note? Done

Yes, and Map 64 can help solve this problem because it allows you to output CV signal according to the note you press. Explore this device, it could be exactly what you asked for. Let me know if there are some problems

[huggermugger]

Do you think you can adapt your microtuning Combinator to read Scala files?

[Whoopdee]

Not familiar with this device, but I will give it a try. Thank you!

However, it doesn't solve my newfound desire to have signal path control over every note. the ability to add effects per-note is a new frontier for me in mixing. Want an opto comp on the lowest group of notes without destructive multi-band splitting? A different flavor of reverb on that ONE note that really hits you in the feels? Phaser on a random note? Done

Yes, and Map 64 can help solve this problem because it allows you to output CV signal according to the note you press. Explore this device, it could be exactly what you asked for. Let me know if there are some problems

I'll definitely check it out, thank you. I like this current method with combinators as I can use strictly native devices.

Do you think you can adapt your microtuning Combinator to read Scala files?

There is no way this is possible, Reason nor any of the rack extensions have any way of reading scala files and spitting out that information inside Reason...

[Worker 13]

@Whoopdee
Yeah, I feel your pain!
I finally gave up tweaking reason devices and ended up using Oddsound MTS-ESP MINI and VSTs.

[Whoopdee]

@Whoopdee
Yeah, I feel your pain!
I finally gave up tweaking reason devices and ended up using Oddsound MTS-ESP MINI and VSTs.

I've seen this plug. I will give it a shot, but I am practically married to the Reason environment... no matter how clowny it has become...

[RobC]

I also wanted to be able to choose any sound/instrument for a given note - especially in case of orchestral music. Maybe when I get to developing, I'll make my dream tools.

[Worker 13]

I'm running Reason 12 and use the VST2 version of Oddsound MTS-ESP MINI (that's the free version). I just drop it into the rack and then load up whatever instruments I need (that are supported). Usually that would be Arturia Pigments or their V collection. I'll also use some of the Full Buckets VSTs. Maybe I'll throw together a quick one minute video on how to do this.

[reasonosaer]

there's an old ochen k RE called microtune as well but it only has one set of cv i/o, lots of interesting tunings built in as presets though

[Whoopdee]

I also wanted to be able to choose any sound/instrument for a given note - especially in case of orchestral music. Maybe when I get to developing, I'll make my dream tools.

Depending on the limitation of the SDK for player devices, this should be possible without overhauling existing developments.

I'm running Reason 12 and use the VST2 version of Oddsound MTS-ESP MINI (that's the free version). I just drop it into the rack and then load up whatever instruments I need (that are supported). Usually that would be Arturia Pigments or their V collection. I'll also use some of the Full Buckets VSTs. Maybe I'll throw together a quick one minute video on how to do this.

I'm sure a lot of us would appreciate this. Thank you.

there's an old ochen k RE called microtune as well but it only has one set of cv i/o, lots of interesting tunings built in as presets though

I'm not supporting bug-ridden rack extensions from developers that abandoned the platform. I've tried reaching out to him but no response. This is part of the reason I took on making my own true microtonal poly-paraphonic combi2s of my favorite Reason synths.

[ljekio]

How wide polyphony do you need to play? Wouldn't 8 voices be enough for one instrument in most cases?

[Whoopdee]

How wide polyphony do you need to play? Wouldn't 8 voices be enough for one instrument in most cases?

In almost any case, yes. That's why I was perfectly fine using Ochen K's Microtonal utility until I discovered the bugs. But now I have 8-99 voices per note depending on the synth and it sounds deep.

[ljekio]

I didn't like the unwanted portamentos with Ochen K Microtonal when plugged into the pitch bend socket.
So I used an "osc pitch" socket, but got the microtone settings from Zvork selector's. But "osc pitch" socket have only old stock devices...

And how many resources does such a system require with hundreds of devices in one combi?

[Whoopdee]

I didn't like the unwanted portamentos with Ochen K Microtonal when plugged into the pitch bend socket.
So I used an "osc pitch" socket, but got the microtone settings from Zvork selector's. But "osc pitch" socket have only old stock devices...

And how many resources does such a system require with hundreds of devices in one combi?

The subtractor version I am working on uses significantly less DSP than the Europa one. but I mainly use this for ambient music that only has 2-3 channels anyways.

[reasonosaer]

I'm not supporting bug-ridden rack extensions from developers that abandoned the platform. I've tried reaching out to him but no response. This is part of the reason I took on making my own true microtonal poly-paraphonic combi2s of my favorite Reason synths.

k but you realize most of the better rack extensions in the shop are made by individuals or companies that have completely or mostly abandoned the platform years ago right? some of the best devs that are still active have been quite public about RS's history of mismanagement and broken promises around the RE format leading to the current long term downward trend in the number and quality of RE developers. maybe it's because of the way propellerheads and now RS has been run with a great deal of contempt for both their customers and the RE developers who pay a lot of their bills since at least several years before it was sold to bankers. in some cases they appear to have blatantly plagiarized ideas and started directly cannibalizing the sales of some of the best developers in their own marketplace Jeff Bezos style.

it was a small company making a really cool, relatively niche product with some very eccentric personalities in management when Props started getting a lot of well deserved critical feedback from their customers on the internet in the early 2010s. that earlier management was apparently so angered by the criticism that they responded by actually shutting down and deleting their entire user forum permanently from the internet in order to censor their critics, that's how this forum eventually became the main discussion board for reason users. unfortunately Props / RS have kind of been in that same reactionary nobody tells us what to do, especially not the people we're trying sell our products to mode ever since.

all that to say that some of Ochen K's rack extensions are great and i'm sure he had his reasons for leaving the RE platform just like all the other devs who left, if you're mad at him and not RS you probably weren't around when he was making REs. i haven't used microtune a lot but haven't found other Ochen K stuff to be especially bug ridden by reason standards. carve eq ducker is a great little bare bones dynamic eq, the a-series is a true modular design that i heard somone say didn't exist in reason the other day in 2 rack spaces, repeat is a hardware style looper made by someone who actually uses loopers that works great with a midi footswitch, and i'm partial to the little driver synth as well. his stuff is from an earlier period before the rack had players or VST support when CV oriented patching was more the focus and his utility CV and probability stuff all works great.

[Whoopdee]

I'm not supporting bug-ridden rack extensions from developers that abandoned the platform. I've tried reaching out to him but no response. This is part of the reason I took on making my own true microtonal poly-paraphonic combi2s of my favorite Reason synths.

k but you realize most of the better rack extensions in the shop are made by individuals or companies that have completely or mostly abandoned the platform years ago right? some of the best devs that are still active have been quite public about RS's history of mismanagement and broken promises around the RE format leading to the current long term downward trend in the number and quality of RE developers. maybe it's because of the way propellerheads and now RS has been run with a great deal of contempt for both their customers and the RE developers who pay a lot of their bills since at least several years before it was sold to bankers. in some cases they appear to have blatantly plagiarized ideas and started directly cannibalizing the sales of some of the best developers in their own marketplace Jeff Bezos style.

it was a small company making a really cool, relatively niche product with some very eccentric personalities in management when Props started getting a lot of well deserved critical feedback from their customers on the internet in the early 2010s. that earlier management was apparently so angered by the criticism that they responded by actually shutting down and deleting their entire user forum permanently from the internet in order to censor their critics, that's how this forum eventually became the main discussion board for reason users. unfortunately Props / RS have kind of been in that same reactionary nobody tells us what to do, especially not the people we're trying sell our products to mode ever since.

all that to say that some of Ochen K's rack extensions are great and i'm sure he had his reasons for leaving the RE platform just like all the other devs who left, if you're mad at him and not RS you probably weren't around when he was making REs. i haven't used microtune a lot but haven't found other Ochen K stuff to be especially bug ridden by reason standards. carve eq ducker is a great little bare bones dynamic eq, the a-series is a true modular design that i heard somone say didn't exist in reason the other day in 2 rack spaces, repeat is a hardware style looper made by someone who actually uses loopers that works great with a midi footswitch, and i'm partial to the little driver synth as well. his stuff is from an earlier period before the rack had players or VST support when CV oriented patching was more the focus and his utility CV and probability stuff all works great.

I should have been more clear. I use Rack Extensions developed by abandoned users, but if there is a bug and the developer abandoned the plugin, I have no reason to continue using it.

I was around during the PUF days so I know what you're talking about, and I completely agree that Props (RS) have made many questionable and outright shady moves that pushed a lot of those developers away from the format.

[Faastwalker]

I posted about the possibility of a micro tonal Player device some time ago. Someone replied saying it wasn't possible currently because of the way Players work. Not sure if this is still the case.

[ljekio]

Only Matthias can answer this question accurately.
Theoretically, I don't see any reason for this being impossible.

[jam-s]

Only Matthias can answer this question accurately.
Theoretically, I don't see any reason for this being impossible.

I think the root of the problem here lies in the rather basic MIDI implementation inside of reason and that players can basically only transform midi events in the reason MIDI pipeline (while also having some CV options).

[Whoopdee]

Only Matthias can answer this question accurately.
Theoretically, I don't see any reason for this being impossible.

I posted about the possibility of a micro tonal Player device some time ago. Someone replied saying it wasn't possible currently because of the way Players work. Not sure if this is still the case.

Only Matthias can answer this question accurately.
Theoretically, I don't see any reason for this being impossible.

I think the root of the problem here lies in the rather basic MIDI implementation inside of reason and that players can basically only transform midi events in the reason MIDI pipeline (while also having some CV options).

Would be nice if we could get a response from the Propellerheads/RS team about this. They like to pretend that the world revolves around equal temperament 12-tet A440. The worse part will be when they do implement microtonal tools and then present it to the world like it's the hippest and hottest new thing.



The ability to copy and paste mappings between the same type of devices in the combinator would be fantastic...

[Robintes]

Ive been a microtone fan since I discovered Scala eons ago
Im posting this so I can stay on msg here
I believe MIDI use would limit breaking out of 12tet 440 mold as you cant go more than +/- 50 cents before jumping a KB note

What I would like would be a Tonal KB (ie all the white notes) so you can map a desired frequency and escape from scales restricted by a repeated Octave
Even 1000 years ago this was examined by the Daseian Scale - ascending tetra chords giving an 18 tone scale giving harmonising in Perfect 5th without hitting dissonant tritone.

Hope someone understands this

[ljekio]

The ability to copy and paste mappings between the same type of devices in the combinator would be fantastic...

All of these years with combinator i wanted it.