Beyond Europa?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 2399
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 27 Feb 2023

I noticed some curiosity about what synth Reason Studios might bring out next.

Now that we have Europa, Grain and Algoritm is there really much left to be desired in the way of synthesizers in Reason?

Cheers!

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 10448
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 28 Feb 2023

Yea, there is still room for more.

On the other hand I am always surprised again what great sounds Subtractor can produce, which cannot be created by Thor or Europa 😁
Reason12, Win10

Popey
Posts: 1672
Joined: 04 Jul 2018

Post 28 Feb 2023

Beyond europa for me would be a synth with more lfo's and envelopes/mseg. Europa is a great synth but wish rs added more as sometimes I run out.

It could be a europa 2 with these added and I would be very happy.

Jac459
Posts: 672
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Feb 2023

Europa is nice but there is so much arguably even more powerful synths in the market. Serum, Pigments, vital, phase plant, ...
Even if Europa has some unique features wave table is a very crowded market.

On the other hand, Reason Studio has the absolute king of physical modeling. I don't know any synth coming close to Friktion...
I dream about a Friktion 2 with MPE and even more models and modulations.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 2399
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 28 Feb 2023

Loque wrote:
28 Feb 2023
Yea, there is still room for more.

On the other hand I am always surprised again what great sounds Subtractor can produce, which cannot be created by Thor or Europa 😁
Image
Popey wrote:
28 Feb 2023
Beyond europa for me would be a synth with more lfo's and envelopes/mseg. Europa is a great synth but wish rs added more as sometimes I run out.

It could be a europa 2 with these added and I would be very happy.
Agree on both points! It must have been a real estate issue, the way each envelope has its own real estate just for selecting it! Could have done with at least double LFOs and ENVs, but Europa is still awesome so it's all good in the hood ;)

Jac459 wrote:
28 Feb 2023
Europa is nice but there is so much arguably even more powerful synths in the market. Serum, Pigments, vital, phase plant, ...
Even if Europa has some unique features wave table is a very crowded market.

On the other hand, Reason Studio has the absolute king of physical modeling. I don't know any synth coming close to Friktion...
I dream about a Friktion 2 with MPE and even more models and modulations.
This is more what I was wanting to know - what other synths out there have that we don't see natively in Reason yet. I don't know much about VST synths or what they are capable of especially in comparison to native Reason devices.

With importable wave tables I found Europa to be only a little less powerful than Serum, not including the on board effects, just my opinion.

Yeah Friktion seems really cool and maybe a bit unique I am not sure, must check it out soon.

Jac459
Posts: 672
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Feb 2023

Jagwah wrote:
28 Feb 2023

This is more what I was wanting to know - what other synths out there have that we don't see natively in Reason yet. I don't know much about VST synths or what they are capable of especially in comparison to native Reason devices.

With importable wave tables I found Europa to be only a little less powerful than Serum, not including the on board effects, just my opinion.

Yeah Friktion seems really cool and maybe a bit unique I am not sure, must check it out soon.
Well, I have a rather severe GAS and I start to own a (very) long list of synths, some I regret, some I don't.
Europa, to me doesn't need to be ashamed in front of Serum, in particular on the spectral side. I see more Vital as a competitor as it does have both Wavetables and Spectral processing like Europa. Yet, for some sort of sounds (like elaborated plucks), I love going to Europa beyond anything else.

But from the Reason world standpoint, Friktion is really the one I have not seen one serious contender. It is somehow the only option (but if I am wrong, I am happy to be corrected).

Also Grain, somehow to me stays unmatched.
2 great synths for granular are Novum and Pigments. They both have also some spectral processing.
But the sound mangling you can have with Grain is to me unmatched, in particular when you chose the Spectral grains mode. Other modes are so-so, but this one is really awesome and I didn't find it anywhere else.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

Chi-Individual
Posts: 300
Joined: 09 Apr 2020

Post 28 Feb 2023

The one thing missing from Reason that I’ve asked for is a truly modular synth. Like a modular cmb, or a modular page similar to Bitwig’s grid, where you can add as many oscillators , filters, lfo’s etc as your heart, mind and cpu can handle. Complex-1 is nice but sometimes you want just a few more LPG’s or a different oscillator. Imagine RS using vertical half racks but all modular on the front.

Other than that, like mentioned before, physical modeling is always welcomed. I’d also like to see the RS version of V Collection slowly become a thing(I know I’m asking a lot but I can dream :-)) just to start replacing the Layers REs. A RS Matrix-12 or Jupiter-8 would be some welcome additions/REs for me.

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 2606
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 28 Feb 2023

I'd love for RS to include some well made physical modelling brass and woodwind synths.

User avatar
Heigen5
Posts: 1406
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Finland / Suomi

Post 28 Feb 2023

jam-s wrote:
28 Feb 2023
I'd love for RS to include some well made physical modelling brass and woodwind synths.
Yup, even though Friktion can do a bit woodwind and sax, I'd wish for the deticated ones i.e. brass and woodwind. :thumbs_up:

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 2606
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 28 Feb 2023

Chi-Individual wrote:
28 Feb 2023
The one thing missing from Reason that I’ve asked for is a truly modular synth. Like a modular cmb, or a modular page similar to Bitwig’s grid, where you can add as many oscillators , filters, lfo’s etc as your heart, mind and cpu can handle. Complex-1 is nice but sometimes you want just a few more LPG’s or a different oscillator. Imagine RS using vertical half racks but all modular on the front.
That has been dealt with with Combinator V2 imho. Now if RS would also allow half-width rack extensions, that would make it even better, but still we already have all the tools needed for fully modular synths in reason.

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10829
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 28 Feb 2023

There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Selig Audio, LLC

Jac459
Posts: 672
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Feb 2023

selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Phase Plant ! Sir.

It is definitely made for that. As many oscillators as your CPU allows, as many filters, as many modulators and as many effects.

Also, audio rate modulations. wavetables for ... LFO (your LFO takes its shape from a wave table !).

That's why for me Phase Plant is a power house (but not as fun as some other synths like ... antidote for example).
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

User avatar
_andreypetr_
Posts: 87
Joined: 11 Aug 2021

Post 28 Feb 2023

selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Reason is that synth itself. You know what I mean. But Reason Studios said that restrictions is more in some cases. I'm not fully agree with it but it makes sense. I'm trying to set up modular synth in Reason with CV control panels etc and always dreamed of creating modules with it's own envelopes, controls and easy replacing.
Also I don't like other than Reason's synths sounding that much so want make Reason-based flexible modular system. For me this is the fun of music making RS talking about :)
Last edited by _andreypetr_ on 28 Feb 2023, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 1437
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 28 Feb 2023

selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
That sounds basically like a modular system that uses drop-down menus (or something else) for routing instead of cables, to keep the interface clean.

FullBucket has a (free) modular synth like that (and polyphonic to boot): https://www.fullbucket.de/music/modulair.html


Image
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

User avatar
moalla
Posts: 397
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: DDR WEST

Post 28 Feb 2023

Complex-2

Reasonstudiosn knows that their Buchla Style "modular" Synth ISN´T at all MODULAR cause it lacks AT ALL connections at the backside, but at this point Blamsofts Viking-2 is completly modular, I also bought it three or four years ago when it was at sale for 20bugs, but used it at least only several times....
So where is a real tutorial about Viking-2, just a guy made one now in 2022 okay that´s awsome


In comparison Algorythm offers "much" more than the inside modular Complex-1 at the side of CV IN and Outputs, that´s at least something, but in terms of sounddesign potentialities the only thing that must be the REASON of this context is, that Reasonstudios will bring a update to Complex, like they did it with Parsec, wich I´m using a lot of it´s famous functionality.

Reasons for and against Reason, the team decided to give us a new big soundmachine, but at all there are more than enough fine emulations, but some emulations are so restricted and at this point

I would say if I`m part of the reasonstudios team, maybe after the last medium succesful releases let us make a well sounding buddy of our collections better, if we just look at numbers of sales of RackExtension synths, we must recognize a developing product ike RedRocks Ivoks works really fine, so let us do the same and do it again, as we did it with Parsec.... ;)

If i repeat the same fact several times in different cases, it was my fault to do this like other ones repeat the same fact in a houseof god, so I believe it´s needed, to bring down all these superfluous assumptions :exclamation:

However, I think it is foolish to want to compete with Pigments4, what stand for it self and is now at V4
Where is a Propellerheads/Reasonstudios V4 Machine :lol:

So i want The Echo V2, Pulverizer V2, Polar V2, Neptune V2 that´s the things i would say are needed and a god point to buy R13 for the users!
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Ibanez SR305, Yamaha PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE
U47fet MOTO:better repair-mod well made stuff than buy the next crap

User avatar
w1pl0c
Posts: 154
Joined: 10 Oct 2017

Post 28 Feb 2023

I think Reason should work on things like workflow improvement rather than give us new synths. If a vst synth already exists, just use that synth rather than recreate it. Seems like the energy would be better spent. Let the vst guys do what they do.

More players, midi routing, UX for grouping and hiding things in the rack are at the top of my wishlist.

User avatar
dioxide
Posts: 1661
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 28 Feb 2023

I think RS have most bases covered but they don't have a dedicated Phase Modulation synth. Thor does this quite well although the ring mod in Thor is too clean when you compare it to a Casio CZ emulation like VirtualCZ or Arturia's.

Apart from that I guess they could do a dedicated old school style digital synth with 4 partials. Allow users to add their own samples and add some 8-12bit bitrate and aliasing options to give it some authentic flavour.

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 1991
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 28 Feb 2023

I keep seeing the title of this thread and thinking it's about a movie sequel, perhaps one with a much reduced budget and without one of the big name actors from the first movie.

But, yeah, we've got enough synths. And I really don't see the point in wishing for a "modular" RE. Reason is already modular. You can fill your rack with oscillators, filters and envelope generators etc until your CPU starts scowling at you.

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10829
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 28 Feb 2023

Jac459 wrote:
28 Feb 2023
selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Phase Plant ! Sir.

It is definitely made for that. As many oscillators as your CPU allows, as many filters, as many modulators and as many effects.

Also, audio rate modulations. wavetables for ... LFO (your LFO takes its shape from a wave table !).

That's why for me Phase Plant is a power house (but not as fun as some other synths like ... antidote for example).
I guess I never paid that much attention to it for some reason, but this is right up my alley - like Reason, but a synth! ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 2052
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 28 Feb 2023

"Beyond Europa?"

Ganymede comes after Europa. :geek: :puf_smile:

Image

ref: https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/ ... /moons.cfm
r11s

dusan.cani
Posts: 383
Joined: 16 Oct 2018
Location: Slovakia

Post 28 Feb 2023

Polyphonic Complex-2 with bunch of new modules would be very cool. Complex-1 is still very good sounding synth and it's very fun to use those cables for module interconnection. I like the idea of front panel patching with two optional views - cables shown or not.

moalla wrote:
28 Feb 2023
but at this point Blamsofts Viking-2 is completly modular, I also bought it three or four years ago when it was at sale for 20bugs, but used it at least only several times....
VK-2 for 20 bucks ? Oh my god, that would be insta buy for me :mrgreen: . I am trialing VK-2 through subscription after long time again and I am surprised how AMAZING this synth sounds. For me it has the most organic sound I've ever heard within the Reason synths platform.

Jac459
Posts: 672
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 28 Feb 2023

dusan.cani wrote:
28 Feb 2023

VK-2 for 20 bucks ? Oh my god, that would be insta buy for me :mrgreen: . I am trialing VK-2 through subscription after long time again and I am surprised how AMAZING this synth sounds. For me it has the most organic sound I've ever heard within the Reason synths platform.
Funny, I am a big fan of blamsoft, I love zero and expanse so bought vk2 but never used it much.
My one stop shop for warm analogic sounds is synapse audio, in particular obsession but the legend too.
Now you will tell me they are not modular....
But I like your idea of polyphonic complex-2, would be fun
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

rorystorm
Posts: 574
Joined: 06 Jul 2019

Post 01 Mar 2023

I really like both vk1 and vk2 but even with vk2 on the low quality setting the cpu is through the roof on my machine. Shame, they sound awesome

rorystorm
Posts: 574
Joined: 06 Jul 2019

Post 01 Mar 2023

Also a plus one from me for a more complex Complex.

Having said that if 100 % modular is the way you wanna go the vcv rack is a massive rabbit hole. Shame that reasons lack of vst cv outs means vcv racks sequencers -an essential part of its appeal - is kinda a wasted opportunity. And again the cpu gets high pretty quick. Same with cherry audios modular set up which id use all the time but its a fg cpu hoover to the point of unusabilty

User avatar
moalla
Posts: 397
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: DDR WEST

Post 01 Mar 2023

I´m now reading often your machine isn´t powerfull enough what are the specs of it, you are using apple?
I think at this time its a fundemental decision of reasonstudios not to open the rack with cv outs, like midi out.... to save the player developers from things like scalerplugin...
For me that´s more than okay, cause it is mostly important for me, maybe as well for most other reasonusers, to have a outstanding system of it self!
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Ibanez SR305, Yamaha PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE
U47fet MOTO:better repair-mod well made stuff than buy the next crap

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], Google [Bot], TritoneAddiction, visheshl and 3 guests