Players vs Rack Extensions

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Jagwah
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Post 04 Jan 2023

I was a bit disappointed when Players were first introduced as they didn't include CV inputs. As far as I can tell the idea of Players over Rack Extensions was to simplify the process, like the drag and drop nature of Players, likely to appeal to a larger audience and divert away from that 'Reason is an over-complicated DAW' idea out there. Perhaps excluding CV connections aligned with this simplified idea, but I was always a bit burned by it, as having immediate CV access is useful and what we were used to.

There was a crappy work around to convert to CV in the beginning, then someone released a device that made it a bit easier, then roughly a week ago a new device was added that allowed this again, maybe in a better way I'm not sure. It made me want to stop and ask a few questions.

Do you think Players should have had CV connections all along?

Do you think it would have been much different / better / worse if instead of Players, we just continued with Rack Extensions?

Any thoughts in regards to Rack Extensions vs Players? I could be missing the idea entirely as I haven't taken to Players much to be honest.

By the way I think the RS Players look wonderful and modern with their white and neon themes and I hope Reason itself will look like this one day.

:thumbup:

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dioxide
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Which CV inputs are you missing? I think it depends on the developer as to how well CV is implemented.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Just to get some context to your questions...
Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
There was a crappy work around to convert to CV in the beginning,
What workaround are you referring to?
Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
then someone released a device that made it a bit easier,
Which device do you mean? Are you talking about CV Player TAP?
Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
then roughly a week ago a new device was added that allowed this again, maybe in a better way I'm not sure.
I'm not aware of a new device with such functionality.
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_andreypetr_
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Post 04 Jan 2023

For me players are goat for live playing music
I'm not even using reason DAW

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artotaku
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Post 04 Jan 2023

All players are Rack Extensions. Players were introduced as a further "device type" to RE SDK.

The very first stock players from RS had not CV inputs and outputs that is true. But this changed later on in further players. So it is supported by the RE SDK (maybe it was added lateron after the first SDK release for players) and it depends on the developer to add it or not.

Using players with their "invisible cables" has some advantages. It´s easier, polyphonic and notes are sent in realtime (more than one note event in one batch).

Personally, I´d welcome to have more CV connections on the early players like Scales & Chords, etc to control some of the parameters like Number Of Notes, etc by CV. I use a Combi for that right now.

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Jagwah
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Post 04 Jan 2023

artotaku wrote:
04 Jan 2023
All players are Rack Extensions. Players were introduced as a further "device type" to RE SDK.

The very first stock players from RS had not CV inputs and outputs that is true. But this changed later on in further players. So it is supported by the RE SDK (maybe it was added lateron after the first SDK release for players) and it depends on the developer to add it or not.

Using players with their "invisible cables" has some advantages. It´s easier, polyphonic and notes are sent in realtime (more than one note event in one batch).

Personally, I´d welcome to have more CV connections on the early players like Scales & Chords, etc to control some of the parameters like Number Of Notes, etc by CV. I use a Combi for that right now.
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know Players got CV connections eventually so I guess my question is kind of unnecessary. I haven't delved into the Player world almost at all but I'm glad that they are popular and people like them, cheers.

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Jagwah
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Post 04 Jan 2023

dioxide wrote:
04 Jan 2023
Which CV inputs are you missing? I think it depends on the developer as to how well CV is implemented.
Indeed.

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Jagwah
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Post 04 Jan 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
04 Jan 2023
Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
then roughly a week ago a new device was added that allowed this again, maybe in a better way I'm not sure.
I'm not aware of a new device with such functionality.
OK so about two weeks ago a device was released by Le Note Live Software, and the device is called 'Player Receive Notes.' I saw this briefly, and because of its title and because of my misunderstanding about Players now having CV inputs, I was led to the assumption that this was a new device similar to CV Player Tap, hence this thread.

Yes I was talking about CV Player Tap.

Yes there was a crappy work around, the first post in this thread will have to suffice: viewtopic.php?t=7506998

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huggermugger
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Virtually every Player has plenty of CV input, via a Combinator (or Insert in older versions of Reason). Maybe some day you'll "delve into the Player world" and discover the power of Players.
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artotaku
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
artotaku wrote:
04 Jan 2023
All players are Rack Extensions. Players were introduced as a further "device type" to RE SDK.

The very first stock players from RS had not CV inputs and outputs that is true. But this changed later on in further players. So it is supported by the RE SDK (maybe it was added lateron after the first SDK release for players) and it depends on the developer to add it or not.

Using players with their "invisible cables" has some advantages. It´s easier, polyphonic and notes are sent in realtime (more than one note event in one batch).

Personally, I´d welcome to have more CV connections on the early players like Scales & Chords, etc to control some of the parameters like Number Of Notes, etc by CV. I use a Combi for that right now.
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know Players got CV connections eventually so I guess my question is kind of unnecessary. I haven't delved into the Player world almost at all but I'm glad that they are popular and people like them, cheers.
To add on this - there are some utility players e. g. like the free CVPT by lectric Panda that act as a bridge between the players and CV "world". They convert the players notes to CV Gate/Note signals and vice versa so you can connect different player chains by CV. It looses some of its advantages like Polyphony though.

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dioxide
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Post 04 Jan 2023

I'd definitely recommend you take a second look at Players. While I don't use them all for me Players have many uses and there are some that are invaluable.

What kind of music do you make or techniques do you use in your music? Perhaps people here can suggest some uses for Players in your music.

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Just for the record, and as a RE developer, I can say that Players have had CV availability since day one. I also added CV/Gate style inputs very early on for my first few devices.

CV outputs are a slightly different matter, because of how CV works in general, but it is still absolutely possible to implement them, and has been since day one. I had one implemented on day one near enough, but not as a note output, it was a device to device sync control.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 04 Jan 2023

Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
OK so about two weeks ago a device was released by Le Note Live Software, and the device is called 'Player Receive Notes.
Ah, that one. I thought that was an update, but indeed it seems to be a new release. All those Le Note stuff looks alike :puf_bigsmile:
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challism
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Post 04 Jan 2023

It's basically just that very first generation of players that didn't have CV (Dual Arp, Scales & Chords, Note Echo - mostly released by Reason). Who knows why they decided to omit CV on those early devices; probably as you said, to help dispel the idea that Reason is an overly complicated DAW. But they have been putting CV on players since those early players were released, although they don't always have note/gate output (which is odd to me). But as mentioned by others, devices like MIDI-CV Converter and CVPT have helped as a workaround to that shortcoming. The two newest RS players (BLG and CS) both have some interesting CV outputs not yet seen on other players; I'd love to see RS include some CV on their earliest players.
playercv.jpg
And while we are discussing missing features of players.... I'll just repeat for the 100th time... why won't they give us individually foldable players? This makes me absolutely crazy. I don't understand why the completely abandoned that useful feature found on every other device in the rack.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
04 Jan 2023
Jagwah wrote:
04 Jan 2023
OK so about two weeks ago a device was released by Le Note Live Software, and the device is called 'Player Receive Notes.
Ah, that one. I thought that was an update, but indeed it seems to be a new release. All those Le Note stuff looks alike :puf_bigsmile:
That's not a new player, it's an update. And that is a great player that I've been using it for years (usually in conjunction with MIDI-CV Converter) - it basically stops the flow of MIDI so notes don't feed through it to the players/instruments below it in the rack. Very useful and essential for any avid player users.
player.jpg
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Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 05 Jan 2023

challism wrote:
04 Jan 2023
That's not a new player, it's an update.
See, that's what I thought. I didn't look at the version number though and not seeing a release log with earlier dates (on the shop page) I thought it was released last December. I also have it installed, but didn't check my installation date. Also, I haven't used it yet myself, so that added to the confusion.
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challism
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Post 05 Jan 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
05 Jan 2023
challism wrote:
04 Jan 2023
That's not a new player, it's an update.
See, that's what I thought. I didn't look at the version number though and not seeing a release log with earlier dates (on the shop page) I thought it was released last December. I also have it installed, but didn't check my installation date. Also, I haven't used it yet myself, so that added to the confusion.
I didn't use it until it was pointed out to me what it actually does. It's kind of hard to know what LeNote devices do or how to use them because they dont have manuals and there isn't much useful info on their shop pages. I still don't understand the rest of the LeNote devices, but I use Receive Notes all the time. It's great!
Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

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jam-s
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Post 05 Jan 2023

challism wrote:
05 Jan 2023
I didn't use it until it was pointed out to me what it actually does. It's kind of hard to know what LeNote devices do or how to use them because they dont have manuals and there isn't much useful info on their shop pages. I still don't understand the rest of the LeNote devices, but I use Receive Notes all the time. It's great!
The other LeNote devices are also very useful utility players/REs. Most of those dealing with (re-)routing CV or audio. But for sure they could use better manuals or more detailed explanation on how to use them.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 05 Jan 2023

jam-s wrote:
05 Jan 2023
Most of those dealing with (re-)routing CV or audio.
Those are the ones I use. Very useful inside combinators :thumbup:
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challism
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Post 05 Jan 2023

jam-s wrote:
05 Jan 2023
challism wrote:
05 Jan 2023
I didn't use it until it was pointed out to me what it actually does. It's kind of hard to know what LeNote devices do or how to use them because they dont have manuals and there isn't much useful info on their shop pages. I still don't understand the rest of the LeNote devices, but I use Receive Notes all the time. It's great!
The other LeNote devices are also very useful utility players/REs. Most of those dealing with (re-)routing CV or audio. But for sure they could use better manuals or more detailed explanation on how to use them.
I wonder if Carly has made any videos covering LeNote devices.
Carly(Poohbear) wrote: Dude loves CV and Rotties
Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 08 Jan 2023

challism wrote:
05 Jan 2023
jam-s wrote:
05 Jan 2023


The other LeNote devices are also very useful utility players/REs. Most of those dealing with (re-)routing CV or audio. But for sure they could use better manuals or more detailed explanation on how to use them.
I wonder if Carly has made any videos covering LeNote devices.
Carly(Poohbear) wrote: Dude loves CV and Rotties
I have :) and they are all great and worth a closer look.

Here are a couple to start with...



Marc64
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Post 08 Jan 2023

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
08 Jan 2023
challism wrote:
05 Jan 2023


I wonder if Carly has made any videos covering LeNote devices.
I have :) and they are all great and worth a closer look.

Here are a couple to start with...


How do you create these videos wher you show with your hands? :)
Really cool :)

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challism
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Post 08 Jan 2023

Marc64 wrote:
08 Jan 2023
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
08 Jan 2023


I have :) and they are all great and worth a closer look.

Here are a couple to start with...


How do you create these videos wher you show with your hands? :)
Really cool :)
Carly's a magician!

Thanks for posting the links. Great stuff, as always.
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Jagwah
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Post 12 Jan 2023

dioxide wrote:
04 Jan 2023
I'd definitely recommend you take a second look at Players. While I don't use them all for me Players have many uses and there are some that are invaluable.

What kind of music do you make or techniques do you use in your music? Perhaps people here can suggest some uses for Players in your music.
Thanks for the tip and knowing Props have put a lot of work in to them I'm sure they are very useful and inspiring and more and I should check them out.

As for my music and techniques and recommendations, I like to think I cover a fair few genres but as I am very much on a learning journey right now the idea of new devices and gear just do not have the appeal they used to. I'm still on Reason 10 and upgrading holds literally no interest to me, I would do it for compatibility with other users before anything else. I got Algoritm a while back and love it, but I can't see myself wanting much else in the near future, which is a good thing, but cheers for the thought anyway :thumbup:

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Jagwah
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Post 12 Jan 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
05 Jan 2023
challism wrote:
04 Jan 2023
That's not a new player, it's an update.
See, that's what I thought.
Image


Ha! You got me Crimson, you were right all along! Lol :)

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Jan 2023

Jagwah wrote:
12 Jan 2023
Image


Ha! You got me Crimson, you were right all along! Lol :)
:lol:
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