Would you consider the player generators (QNG, BLG, PM, etc.) A. I. ?
- Enlightenspeed
- RE Developer
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- Joined: 03 Jan 2019
There's different definitions of AI, but for all Rack Extensions it's impossible to do AI as a rule.
Good, because the last thing I need, is Skynet taking over my projects.Enlightenspeed wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022There's different definitions of AI, but for all Rack Extensions it's impossible to do AI as a rule.
r11s
There's nothing stopping the use of reinforcement learning and neural networks in Rack Extensions (other than there probably is no real need).Enlightenspeed wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022There's different definitions of AI, but for all Rack Extensions it's impossible to do AI as a rule.
There may be issues with saving (I've not checked out the SDK since 2016 ... so maybe things have changed by now ).
You will have to roll out your own library and figure out how to make it work with the RE limitations (I wrote a few classes to make allocation in real-time code fairly painless).
The real problem is making it useful.
Now that being said ... QMUL audio professor, Marcus Pearce wrote a paper (A Probabilistic Model of Meter Perception: Simulating Enculturation) that gives you one of the only practical theoretical models based on human perception of rhythm that could be used to generate rhythms on a per-genre basis.
He has written code to demonstrate the theory (not included in the paper), but the model is included.
Worth checking out some of the sources he cites as there's an interesting model (strikingly similar to what is used in Propellerhead's Bassline generator) ... plus lots of findings on the perception of melody that could help you out with generation.
The AI that has become increasingly popular is the "neural network" AI. Where you give it parameters and input and using trained models, it creates an output based on the models you trained it on. The player devices and such are more like procedural generation or some other term that is similar
Sorry my bad, I was talking about a Rack Extensions (even though the thread is clearly asking about players ♂️).aeox wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022The AI that has become increasingly popular is the "neural network" AI. Where you give it parameters and input and using trained models, it creates an output based on the models you trained it on. The player devices and such are more like procedural generation or some other term that is similar
I've no idea what players allow.
But what is AI exactly, in the music software world? It's one of those terms that get bandied around very loosely
Take something like Sonible's Frei:raum EQ. You play your audio into it, it "listens" to the audio for a few seconds, and then you dial in a frequency curve based on what the plugin thinks is best suited to what it's "hearing". Is that AI?
Take something like Sonible's Frei:raum EQ. You play your audio into it, it "listens" to the audio for a few seconds, and then you dial in a frequency curve based on what the plugin thinks is best suited to what it's "hearing". Is that AI?
- homemadenoise
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- Joined: 03 Feb 2021
I kind of wish Skynet would finish a few of tracks for me or at least do some mixing and mastering.
Seriously though A. I. has to biggest buzz term floating around the tech world now. It must help that sweet venture capital pour in.
But there is no "I" in them. They just follow rules. But do not make up new rules or learn. The "A" being to true is debatable. But don't really care. I really like the players for ideas and Chord Generator is a time saver.
They can fall under some definition of AI, but the subject is a bit complex and from your statement you'd most likely only count general AI or super AI as "AI".
I agree.homemadenoise wrote: ↑13 Dec 2022
I kind of wish Skynet would finish a few of tracks for me or at least do some mixing and mastering.
Seriously though A. I. has to biggest buzz term floating around the tech world now. It must help that sweet venture capital pour in.
But there is no "I" in them. They just follow rules. But do not make up new rules or learn. The "A" being to true is debatable. But don't really care. I really like the players for ideas and Chord Generator is a time saver.
The "I", is just pie in the sky.
r11s
Sony used it to clean up old movies from the 60s.dvdrtldg wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022But what is AI exactly, in the music software world? It's one of those terms that get bandied around very loosely
Take something like Sonible's Frei:raum EQ. You play your audio into it, it "listens" to the audio for a few seconds, and then you dial in a frequency curve based on what the plugin thinks is best suited to what it's "hearing". Is that AI?
They could completely remove background noise and separate out sound sources for their remastering (so they were able to have a separate channel for dialogue, the crowd, the chariots, and completely eliminate the background noise).
These methods are the only reason we have the Beatles Docu-film.
I consider Neural Networks to be a marketing term, just like AI. All they are are a series of "linear" layers (which basically means they can be described as a single "matrix" operation (convolution can be represented as a matrix operation) sandwiched between layers of distortion (because if you remove the distortion, you effectively have one linear layer ... because they're linear).
You will notice that Deep learning (which is just Neural Networks with more than 2 linear layers) now dominates image processing. You used to need to learn a hell of a lot of DSP theory to do what you can learn to do much better with neural networks in a few hours.
They're completely replacing experts in things I can't say (NDA, etc.) but it's something that requires 10 years of higher education and active field experience in recognizing those images, but there is a severe and rising shortage of people with this expensive skillset (plus there are only a few positions for them so there are few incentives). They're insanely effective.
And whatever you see ML can do with images, it can do with audio (it's just that what we want to do with audio tends to be much more complex).
If you wanted ML to render a vocal verse from written lyrics, you've got rhythm, melody, tone, expression, and fitting in with all the other instruments.
But we are already seeing ML being used to separate audio. It's most likely the "secret sauce" behind Melodyne's DNA.
Google created Magenta Studio using a simple ML model that allows you to construct new instruments from two existing ones (using a slider to determine how much of the sound is, say, a harp and how much is a trumpet). You get a new acoustic instrument you can play that has characteristics from both, but you can hear is clearly not just blending the sounds together.
- arnigretar
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So if players aint A.I. does that mean they are not my friends anymore?
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Reason 12, Ableton Live 10 Suite, Roland Cloud, Arturia V9, Korg Legacy 3, Soundtoys 5, Waves Mercury, Sonic Charge Bundle, N.I.: Massive, Reaktor 6, FM8. + a lot of Hardware. Windows 7/10.
- crimsonwarlock
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Some people are friends with a doorpost, so I see no problem herearnigretar wrote: ↑13 Dec 2022So if players aint A.I. does that mean they are not my friends anymore?
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Noise reduction systems have been doing this for decades, reading a sample of the noise and constructing a ‘filter’ to remove it. Same for plugins like VocAlign, where they ‘learn’ the input audio and then do ‘something’ in response.dvdrtldg wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022But what is AI exactly, in the music software world? It's one of those terms that get bandied around very loosely
Take something like Sonible's Frei:raum EQ. You play your audio into it, it "listens" to the audio for a few seconds, and then you dial in a frequency curve based on what the plugin thinks is best suited to what it's "hearing". Is that AI?
So no, not AI, at least not how we refer to it today (or at best, a highly simplified/primitive version of it?).
Selig Audio, LLC
But machine learning does far more than create a filter, ... it can separate dialogue from crowd noise, other people taking in the background, .. the train that passes by during filming.selig wrote: ↑13 Dec 2022
Noise reduction systems have been doing this for decades, reading a sample of the noise and constructing a ‘filter’ to remove it. Same for plugins like VocAlign, where they ‘learn’ the input audio and then do ‘something’ in response.
So no, not AI, at least not how we refer to it today (or at best, a highly simplified/primitive version of it?).
I'm not sure if Sony has released the remasters of the movies they restored with machine learning, but no, nothing comes close to what ML can do.
neural network AI is where you can give input parameters such asdvdrtldg wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022But what is AI exactly, in the music software world? It's one of those terms that get bandied around very loosely
Take something like Sonible's Frei:raum EQ. You play your audio into it, it "listens" to the audio for a few seconds, and then you dial in a frequency curve based on what the plugin thinks is best suited to what it's "hearing". Is that AI?
"create a 120 bpm track in the style of (insert your favorite artist here) mixed with (insert your other favorite artist here). "
Then, without the AI explicitly having any knowledge of such a combination of ideas, will try to interpret and give you an output. As long as the model has been trained to understand what each of those artists sounds like
With your EQ example, it's more like analysis and automation rather than modern neural net AI. I'm thinking it's probably matching frequency curves to the fletcher munson.
- homemadenoise
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QNG will always be my enemy.arnigretar wrote: ↑13 Dec 2022So if players aint A.I. does that mean they are not my friends anymore?
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