T2 Phaser - how to lock LFO phase ?

[dusan.cani]

T2.PNG (328.58 KiB) Viewed 1458 times

How is it possible to reset LFO phase ? There is LFO Phase knob to set LFO phase, but it has not any effect. LFO phase is always random/continuous independent of note gate or sequencer play event.

[huggermugger]

Instead of using the internal LFO, which has no reset option, use an external LFO to control Phase (like Pulsar, which can be retriggered). Put everything into a Combinator, so you can set Pulsar to receive notes. Then set LFO 1 of Pulsar to ENV SYNC. Every time you play a note, LFO 1 will restart.

[dusan.cani]

Thanks, yes I know that it's possible to use external LFO to modulate the phaser frequencies. But I wonder that internal LFO doesn't reset its phase via Phase control, which is weird. I wanted to use just device itself without external modulation solution.

[huggermugger]

You can wonder all you want but wondering won't change the fact that T2's LFO can't be reset. The "Phase" control is a manual control for the phase position. It has nothing to do with the phase of the LFO.

[dusan.cani]

. The "Phase" control is a manual control for the phase position. It has nothing to do with the phase of the LFO.

It has, as it sets the phase at which the LFO starts. Generally, this control is used in conjuction with phase reset, so you can define at which phase the LFO will start/reset when gate kicks in. So I don't understand what usage this control has without phase reset. What usable effect can I achieve using this control without phase reset ?

[miscend]

You could have sent a note to the developer but I don't think the company is still active as the website is AWOL. With a lot of Rack Extensions the developers have completely disappeared and there is no support. So if you discover a new bug no one will fix it.

http://thatmusiccompany.com

[selig]

. The "Phase" control is a manual control for the phase position. It has nothing to do with the phase of the LFO.

It has, as it sets the phase at which the LFO starts. Generally, this control is used in conjuction with phase reset, so you can define at which phase the LFO will start/reset when gate kicks in. So I don't understand what usage this control has without phase reset. What usable effect can I achieve using this control without phase reset ?

If that was true, then the above routing would not work, right? The above example shows an LFO connected to the Phase CV input, which you say is to control the LFO start. I don't have this device and there is no longer any online manual, but if the above routing works to replace the internal LFO and sweep the phaser from an external CV, then the Phase control is clearly a manual way to sweep the filters and not related to the LFO phase.

And like you say, having a control for LFO phase with no way to trigger it makes no sense at all. What makes more sense is that the control in question is a manual control for the filters. You can test this by reducing Amount to zero and moving the Phase knob around slowly - does it sound like a "phaser"?

[huggermugger]

. The "Phase" control is a manual control for the phase position. It has nothing to do with the phase of the LFO.

It has, as it sets the phase at which the LFO starts. Generally, this control is used in conjuction with phase reset, so you can define at which phase the LFO will start/reset when gate kicks in. So I don't understand what usage this control has without phase reset. What usable effect can I achieve using this control without phase reset ?

Unfortunately, there's no manual available and it looks like TMC's website is defunct.

You're right that the Phase control determines the phase of the LFO, I checked it with CV Analyzer. But it also affects an external CV control, and does so in the way I'd expect. Different settings of Phase focus the CV control on different points in the range of audio phase shift. The Amount control also affects the CV control (although an Amount of 0 doesn't actually null the effect, whether on ext CV or int LFO).

I tried using a short pulse to "trigger" the Phase input on the back, but the only way to make the T2 see the pulse is to put it in CV In mode, which disconnects the LFO.

[selig]

It has, as it sets the phase at which the LFO starts. Generally, this control is used in conjuction with phase reset, so you can define at which phase the LFO will start/reset when gate kicks in. So I don't understand what usage this control has without phase reset. What usable effect can I achieve using this control without phase reset ?

Unfortunately, there's no manual available and it looks like TMC's website is defunct.

You're right that the Phase control determines the phase of the LFO, I checked it with CV Analyzer. But it also affects an external CV control, and does so in the way I'd expect. Different settings of Phase focus the CV control on different points in the range of audio phase shift. The Amount control also affects the CV control (although an Amount of 0 doesn't actually null the effect, whether on ext CV or int LFO).

I tried using a short pulse to "trigger" the Phase input on the back, but the only way to make the T2 see the pulse is to put it in CV In mode, which disconnects the LFO.

That doesn’t make sense and appears to be contradictory. You say phase is for LFO phase, but if you use CV to control phase it disconnects the LFO. Why would you want to control something that is disconnected???

[dusan.cani]

If that was true, then the above routing would not work, right? The above example shows an LFO connected to the Phase CV input, which you say is to control the LFO start. I don't have this device and there is no longer any online manual, but if the above routing works to replace the internal LFO and sweep the phaser from an external CV, then the Phase control is clearly a manual way to sweep the filters and not related to the LFO phase.

And like you say, having a control for LFO phase with no way to trigger it makes no sense at all. What makes more sense is that the control in question is a manual control for the filters. You can test this by reducing Amount to zero and moving the Phase knob around slowly - does it sound like a "phaser"?

There is manual available, but I found only older version of the device:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ncvtec22t0zk8 ... l.pdf?dl=0

If "CV in" is activated, internal LFO is deactivated and both controls Phase and Rate could be used as manual control for phaser frequencies, as you've said. "Phase CV in" or "Rate CV in" can be used for external control of phaser frequencies. Doesn't matter which CV input you choose or which control you dial. I didn't notice any difference because either Phase or Rate is used for manual control of phasers when "CV in" is activated. When "CV in" is deactivated, internal LFO kicks in and Rate control changes the rate. Phase control changes the LFO phase, but it has no usage since there is no internal LFO reset. So I don't understand author's intentions for Phase control usage.

[dusan.cani]

So if you discover a new bug no one will fix it.

I wouldn't say that in this case It's a bug. Just a design which I probably didn't understand correctly

[selig]

So if you discover a new bug no one will fix it.

I wouldn't say that in this case It's a bug. Just a design which I probably didn't understand correctly

+1 on that!!!
I just read through the manual, and it’s even less clear what’s going on. So many terms called “phase” in a device that is also a Phaser. The fact the LFO shape affects the external CV is mind boggling because it says it disconnects the LFO or “Stops the rate and allows the user to manually move the Phaser LFO”. It doesn’t say it allows the user to manually adjust the LFO Phase, which is what is suggested by others here. It also doesn’t allow the user to manually adjust the frequencies, which would be more logical/typical for a Phaser. It also says in this mode “moving the Rate knob then changes the frequencies of the phaser”, which is also odd because the phaser frequencies are not related to LFO Rate in any way when the LFO is disconnected as in this mode. Not to mention how an LFO phase CV is useless if the LFO is disabled when you use CV. If I had this device in my rack I might be able to make more sense of it, but the combination of the UI and the manual don’t make it an easy device to understand!

Compare this to how simple the signal flow etc. is in Sweeper and how easy it is to control the frequency with an external LFO if desired or to automate it for even more control. Sweeper remains one of my favorite devices for many reasons, but first and foremost is the ability to understand it easily!

My conclusion is I would use Sweeper for the effect the OP is looking for.

[AnotherMathias]

I haven't used this particular RE either, but looking at the front and rear panels, I would 100% assume that the "phase" knob here is to set the center frequency of the phaser. This is the knob that an LFO typically will "twist" for you, at your desired rate and depth.
This function is named a lot of different things in different phasers, like "cutoff", "frequency", "manual", "base", and "phase offset". Very confusing, and labeling it "phase", when there are so many meanings of the word in this context, was probably a bad idea.

I wouldn't assume that any effect with a free-running LFO (like a phaser, chorus, or flanger, or a delay with an LFO) would have an LFO Reset or LFO Starting Phase function. In fact, when I do a Google Image search for "Phaser VST", I don't see any that do. A rare few do have an Envelope function that can be triggered - like Sweeper does!

[selig]

I haven't used this particular RE either, but looking at the front and rear panels, I would 100% assume that the "phase" knob here is to set the center frequency of the phaser. This is the knob that an LFO typically will "twist" for you, at your desired rate and depth.

And yet, the user guide says it is for the LFO phase if I'm reading it correctly. Hopefully someone with the actual device will know the correct answer…

[huggermugger]

And yet, the user guide says it is for the LFO phase if I'm reading it correctly. Hopefully someone with the actual device will know the correct answer…

Yes, the Phase knob adjusts the phase of the LFO. I tested it with CV Analyzer, as I mentioned earlier.

[selig]

And yet, the user guide says it is for the LFO phase if I'm reading it correctly. Hopefully someone with the actual device will know the correct answer…

Yes, the Phase knob adjusts the phase of the LFO. I tested it with CV Analyzer, as I mentioned earlier.

Sorry, I missed that earlier! Seems very odd to include a phase knob on an LFO that is free run. Wait, what does it do when the LFO is in tempo sync mode with the transport playing? My poor brain just wants to understand this device!!!
Still trying to understand why you would have a phase control and no trigger…

[huggermugger]

Sorry, I missed that earlier! Seems very odd to include a phase knob on an LFO that is free run. Wait, what does it do when the LFO is in tempo sync mode with the transport playing? My poor brain just wants to understand this device!!!
Still trying to understand why you would have a phase control and no trigger…

It behaves the same as with an unsynched LFO.

[huggermugger]

However, with the CV In engaged (which stops the LFO), the Phase knob still has an effect on the LFO CV Output, although it's more like it's referencing the Phase center frequency.

[huggermugger]

I too am puzzled by having access to LFO Phase but not a reset option. In any case, the sound of T2 doesn't appeal, so I'm happy to stick with Sweeper and the half-dozen other phase shifters in my arsenal .

[AnotherMathias]

I missed the videos as well, now I stand corrected! I had assumed it was just poor labeling (well, the labeling is still a bit unclear).
So that means that the RE doesn't have a manual center frequency control, right? And yet, an LFO phase knob. Very odd.

[dusan.cani]

If I had this device in my rack I might be able to make more sense of it

It's free device:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... t2-phaser/

So that means that the RE doesn't have a manual center frequency control, right? And yet, an LFO phase knob. Very odd.

It does have manual phaser frequency control, as I've written earlier:

If "CV in" is activated, internal LFO is deactivated and both controls Phase and Rate could be used as manual control for phaser frequencies, as you've said. "Phase CV in" or "Rate CV in" can be used for external control of phaser frequencies. Doesn't matter which CV input you choose or which control you dial. I didn't notice any difference because either Phase or Rate is used for manual control of phasers when "CV in" is activated. When "CV in" is deactivated, internal LFO kicks in and Rate control changes the rate. Phase control changes the LFO phase, but it has no usage since there is no internal LFO reset. So I don't understand author's intentions for Phase control usage.

the sound of T2 doesn't appeal, so I'm happy to stick with Sweeper and the half-dozen other phase shifters in my arsenal .

T2 is different because it has integrated overdrive and HPF in the effect chain. Overdrive can operate pre or post phaser. Both overdrive and HPF sounds fairly good IMHO, they are used also in other devices from this developer (Distort Chain and Mr. Overdrive). HPF can act as regular Highpass filter if "True HPF" switch is activated. If unactivated, HPF behaves something like peak EQ. Overdrive and HPF with various configurations can enrich the basic phaser sound in interesting ways. So this device can definitely offer something that others don't.