Algoritm produce artifacts

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helmutson
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 17 Nov 2022

Did someone have the same problem ? With very short attack times , Algoritm produce artifacts, kinda sound like distortion or cracle. When I increase the attack curve/time just a little bit , it's gone. I changed my latency settings, but nothing changed. I'm on a Mac mini M1. Got anybody an idea ?

dhruan
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post 17 Nov 2022

Are you experiencing any other audio issues with Reason? Also, is there a factory Algoritm patch with which this could be reproduced? I had some issues with Reason playback that I fixed by limiting the number of threads to one or two (2021 MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro CPU). Might be worth a shot.
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Loque
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Post 17 Nov 2022

Can you provide a patch and/or screenshot?

Could be anything from:
* There is a modulator/carrier creating this
* Phase issue
* Waveform/DC offset
* ...
Reason12, Win10

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selig
RE Developer
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 17 Nov 2022

Could simply be a slight waveform discontinuity at the start, which is smoothed with a slightly slower attack time? Many Reason synths have attack default to just a tiny bit slower than their fastest setting, to avoid unwanted clicks. Sometimes you want that click at the front, most of the time you don’t. Will see if I can reproduce later today.
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helmutson
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 17 Nov 2022

selig wrote:
17 Nov 2022
Could simply be a slight waveform discontinuity at the start, which is smoothed with a slightly slower attack time? Many Reason synths have attack default to just a tiny bit slower than their fastest setting, to avoid unwanted clicks. Sometimes you want that click at the front, most of the time you don’t. Will see if I can reproduce later today.
Yes, sounds like that. Some kind of clicking and it's with many factory/original patches. It's not a nice or wanted sound, not for me. I can't reproduce that with Subtractor for example.

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 17 Nov 2022

helmutson wrote:
17 Nov 2022
selig wrote:
17 Nov 2022
Could simply be a slight waveform discontinuity at the start, which is smoothed with a slightly slower attack time? Many Reason synths have attack default to just a tiny bit slower than their fastest setting, to avoid unwanted clicks. Sometimes you want that click at the front, most of the time you don’t. Will see if I can reproduce later today.
Yes, sounds like that. Some kind of clicking and it's with many factory/original patches. It's not a nice or wanted sound, not for me. I can't reproduce that with Subtractor for example.
Subtractor's fastest attack measures around 1.5 ms, which is similar to the smooth sounding default of Algoritm (1.2 ms). So it is no surprise you don't hear a click on Subtractor.

To confirm do a 'reset device' on Algoritm then turn OFF Osc Sync. Note that attack at the default setting is 1.2 ms so everything sounds fine. But set it to zero and now the attack is all 'clicky' - and there is not always the same amount of click in the attack. Turn Osc Sync back on and you hear a tiny bit of attack 'click' but now it's more consistent. Usually it takes about 1 ms of attack to smooth any discontinuity in the waveform which is why many synths that DO allow 0.0 ms attacks still default to slightly slower values.
Europa: 5.0 ms
Grain: 0.6 ms
Thor, Algoritm, Complex-1: 1.2 ms
Selig Audio, LLC

helmutson
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 18 Nov 2022

selig wrote:
17 Nov 2022
helmutson wrote:
17 Nov 2022


Yes, sounds like that. Some kind of clicking and it's with many factory/original patches. It's not a nice or wanted sound, not for me. I can't reproduce that with Subtractor for example.
Subtractor's fastest attack measures around 1.5 ms, which is similar to the smooth sounding default of Algoritm (1.2 ms). So it is no surprise you don't hear a click on Subtractor.

To confirm do a 'reset device' on Algoritm then turn OFF Osc Sync. Note that attack at the default setting is 1.2 ms so everything sounds fine. But set it to zero and now the attack is all 'clicky' - and there is not always the same amount of click in the attack. Turn Osc Sync back on and you hear a tiny bit of attack 'click' but now it's more consistent. Usually it takes about 1 ms of attack to smooth any discontinuity in the waveform which is why many synths that DO allow 0.0 ms attacks still default to slightly slower values.
Europa: 5.0 ms
Grain: 0.6 ms
Thor, Algoritm, Complex-1: 1.2 ms
Wow, thanx for the explanation. Now I understand why I did not have that problem with Thor, Europa etc.

helmutson
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 18 Nov 2022

Now I'm sitting with my office computer(windows) and thought, let's reproduce this with the inbuild DX driver.
I'm very surprized that I can't ! I'm mean the latency is just usable for playbacks (4096 or so), but no clicking, even with the lowest attack settings. My expectation was completely vice versa.

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Loque
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Post 18 Nov 2022

helmutson wrote:
18 Nov 2022
Now I'm sitting with my office computer(windows) and thought, let's reproduce this with the inbuild DX driver.
I'm very surprized that I can't ! I'm mean the latency is just usable for playbacks (4096 or so), but no clicking, even with the lowest attack settings. My expectation was completely vice versa.
Interesting.

If you use the exact same patch, it can be a driver issue ofc. I had it from time to time that audio devices in general or bad players produce short clicks when re-issuing a playback. This can happen if the audio buffer is not set correct or cleared.
Try updating the audio driver on the computer where you have the issue.

If that does not help, post an example patch.
Reason12, Win10

helmutson
Posts: 205
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 18 Nov 2022

There is no dedicated audio driver for my audiointerface (Mackie Big Knob) , it's plug'n'play.

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