Algoritm is released!

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EnochLight
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
01 Mar 2021
I guess that explains the direction more than RS would admit to.

The last few updates haven't addressed anything that long term users have been asking for and instead the developer have chosen to concentrate on making Reason into a cheap to operate plugin for the casual user rather than providing a viable solution to it long term user base.
The last few "point" maintenance updates? Sure, these have been mostly devoid of core DAW stuff - aside from mp3 export added in 11.2.1, improved VST plugin compatibility in 11.3, and improved plugin handling in 11.3.3 - which were specifically Reason DAW proper improvements. But yeah, everything else have been glaring bug fixes (of which there seems to be a lot!) and RRP improvements. Not surprising, as RRP is new and obviously they had a lot more work to do with it.

The last full version update (11) actually did add some core DAW functionality improvements:
  • Curve automation lines between two automation points
  • Crossfade between two overlapping audio clips
  • Improved zoom, including individual track height, improved Zoom to Selection (Z) and increased zoom height
  • Mute MIDI notes using the Mute Tool or pressing M
  • New Pencil Tool mode to draw notes at current snap value
  • Absolute Snap, a new snap setting where events always snap to the grid
  • Improved key visualization in Edit Mode, showing both the notes played via MIDI and the notes selected
  • Shortcut for moving notes up or down an octave,
  • cmd+shift+up/down (Mac) or ctrl+shift+up/down (Win)
  • Draw an automation point on the existing automation line by holding Shift
I mean, was it nearly enough? Absolutely not! But let's not say that they're ignoring long time user requests for the DAW proper. That's simply not what I'm seeing at all.
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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Maybe I was being grumpy now you've taken the time to lay them out they are all very worth while core enhancements.

I definitely appreciated the vst performance that 11 seems to have provided and I guess that I was hoping to see vst2.4 midi routing finally being implemented as lost of tools are still 2.4 and even though the standard is no longer in production I think a lot of things will still need the standard.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

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Gardinski
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Post 02 Mar 2021

This is why I don't understand the colossal waves of negativity which have been swamping the forum recently. Friktion, Complex and Algoritm have all been strong, muscular, and truly innovative devices. Each of those three synths is capable of delivering really rich, meaty sounds in pretty unique ways.I

These are not mere "toys", (an accusation which might arguably be levelled at one of two of the Player devices: QNG, I'm looking at you!). In the right hands, these three synths are inspirational powerhouses: capable of an almost infinite range of sonic versatility, they are both deeply 'musical' and a little bit terrifying.

And yet there's still this general perception that RS is somehow selling us out: sacrificing the spirit of innovation and betraying the old, loyal user base in pursuit of quick cash from a new and dumbed-down audience of 'outsiders'. The filthy heathens!

This simply doesn't tally with reality, as far as I can see. Sure, if we hadn't just seen Friktion and Algoritm, there might have been some grounds for suspicion- but it seems clear that RS is committed to reinvesting its new revenue stream into serious product development. Surely this has to be good news for everyone... Especially those lunatics among us who still hope to be using Reason as their primary musical tool 20 years into the future!

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SebAudio
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Loque wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Now after playing around with it a bit, i must admit, that its the first time i like the patches RS delivers with a synth.

It is indeed a very easy to use synth, but on the other hand also limited. Here are just a few points, which could easily extend Algoritm and would still be easy to use, but would make it much more powerful:
* Instead of OUT toggle button make it a slider or mix knob
* Make more matrix slots, so i finally can target at least all operators
* Sample or Wavetable loading oscillator
* External audio input, maybe as an oscillator (vocoder style?)
* Easy Mute/Solo each operator
* Make Key Follow a 0-100% slider/knob
* Try to increase the Routing Matrix and make the little connections a Mixer Circle Knob
* Let me set the maximum polyphony
Algo is what I’d have wanted PX7 to be at the time. Thor has been my « not so classic FM synth » since. But now with Algo the workflow is better.
I agree with all of your suggestions + replace the « brushed aluminium » panels with something more « 2021 » (and make it darker)
But it’s not very often that RS make updates to their « right from the v1 » modules :cry:
Seb Audio ( :reason: 11 waiting for HD v12 / Ableton Live 10 + RRP 11-PX7)
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EpiGenetik
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Any word on whether this will be done as a competition yet? :)

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Mar 2021

One of my favorite parts from the stream, aside from the off-brand THX (or BHX) sound from this example lol
Was the showcasing of randomization and the use of using the Fade frequency mode to keep your patches in key when using Randomization.


TritoneAddiction
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Post 03 Mar 2021

It would be awesome if Algoritm would be included in the R12 release. I don't think it will happen, but that would be a huge selling point to upgrade.
I'm gonna have to get Algoritm somehow at some point. The question is when at for what price. R+ is not an option. I want to own the damn thing.

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jam-s
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Post 03 Mar 2021

TritoneAddiction wrote:
03 Mar 2021
It would be awesome if Algoritm would be included in the R12 release. I don't think it will happen, but that would be a huge selling point to upgrade.
I'm gonna have to get Algoritm somehow at some point. The question is when at for what price. R+ is not an option. I want to own the damn thing.
Yes and it would be huge middle finger to all those who bought it and to Reason+ subscribers. Thus I don't see this happen at all (or with Reason 13 the earliest).
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TritoneAddiction
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Post 03 Mar 2021

jam-s wrote:
03 Mar 2021
TritoneAddiction wrote:
03 Mar 2021
It would be awesome if Algoritm would be included in the R12 release. I don't think it will happen, but that would be a huge selling point to upgrade.
I'm gonna have to get Algoritm somehow at some point. The question is when at for what price. R+ is not an option. I want to own the damn thing.
Yes and it would be huge middle finger to all those who bought it and to Reason+ subscribers. Thus I don't see this happen at all (or with Reason 13 the earliest).
Yes it would indeed. And it wouldn't be the first time either. :lol: That's exactly why I don't want to buy it now. There's been plenty of times where Reason Studios REs ended up in upgrades or bundles (or Suite).
If they didn't have the history of doing things like that, I'd probably buy it right now.
Well even if non of that happens, I at least expect Algoritm to go on sale at some point.

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esselfortium
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Post 03 Mar 2021

I wouldn’t expect it to be built in before 2025, if it ever is. The old devices that were bundled in Reason 10 were old, and Synchronous and Pulsar were already limited-time freebies with R6.5/R7 upgrades when first released.

TritoneAddiction
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Post 03 Mar 2021

esselfortium wrote:
03 Mar 2021
I wouldn’t expect it to be built in before 2025, if it ever is. The old devices that were bundled in Reason 10 were old, and Synchronous and Pulsar were already limited-time freebies with R6.5/R7 upgrades when first released.
That's true. But plenty of the Suite stuff wasn't that old. Processed Pianos, Scenic, Umpf REs, Complex-1, Reason Drum Kits, Reason Electric Bass, Layers. And all that stuff got bundled up in a really good deal. Luckily I didn't purchase any of these things before buying Suite. I was lucky. Many other people weren't.
The point is RS has a way of including or bundling a lot of their products after the initial release. Sometimes pretty early on. Therefor I'm very hesitant to buy any RE from them seperately for full price.

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Billy+
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Post 03 Mar 2021

well never is to long to say it won't never happen but we can be almost certain that it won't be happening anytime soon and I'm fine with that, I hope that the DAW updates are what makes the upgrade worth buying.

Anyway back to the topic, the stream was fun to watch apart from seeing patches for Algoritm that are for subscribers only especially on release, that kinda stings that patches were actively held back from those who would rather buy their devices.

I really like how this device works and sounds and could almost have rushed off to buy it but decided to stick to my guns and wait for the next few months while the minor fixes are worked on along with the possibility of the next major release.

No I'm not waiting for it to be included, I'm waiting to see what gets done to the core, before I buy Algoritm.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

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Jagwah
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Post 03 Mar 2021

Love it even more as each day passes. Seems like you guys really made Fm synthesis user friendly. Rapidly becoming my new go to for everything :thumbup:
EpiGenetik wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Any word on whether this will be done as a competition yet? :)
Let's hope so!

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BRIGGS
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Post 03 Mar 2021

Jagwah wrote:
03 Mar 2021
Love it even more as each day passes. Seems like you guys really made Fm synthesis user friendly. Rapidly becoming my new go to for everything :thumbup:
It's magic. :puf_smile:
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My music made in Reason : https://audius.co/jeff40529158

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gullum
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Post 03 Mar 2021

Gardinski wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Especially those lunatics among us who still hope to be using Reason as their primary musical tool 20 years into the future!
Now Now are you calling me a lunatic :D

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Gardinski
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Post 03 Mar 2021

gullum wrote:
03 Mar 2021
Gardinski wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Especially those lunatics among us who still hope to be using Reason as their primary musical tool 20 years into the future!
Now Now are you calling me a lunatic :D
Absolutely! Welcome to the Asylum! :P

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fullforce
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Post 03 Mar 2021

Looks like a matrix of Figures and a combinator.
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Kalm
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Post 03 Mar 2021

algorithm looks like a FM I would use instantly, but I just can't get it right now. Hopefully I can swing a sale by time im ready.

I'm actually surprised they didn't go for a dominant color for the synth like Europa or Grain. I liked how each device had its own unique color palette. FM reminds me of Players and Complex in that regard.

I think y'all should pick a color =)
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miscend
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Post 03 Mar 2021

TritoneAddiction wrote:
03 Mar 2021

That's true. But plenty of the Suite stuff wasn't that old. Processed Pianos, Scenic, Umpf REs, Complex-1, Reason Drum Kits, Reason Electric Bass, Layers. And all that stuff got bundled up in a really good deal. Luckily I didn't purchase any of these things before buying Suite. I was lucky. Many other people weren't.
The point is RS has a way of including or bundling a lot of their products after the initial release. Sometimes pretty early on. Therefor I'm very hesitant to buy any RE from them seperately for full price.
Scenic was always part of Reason Suite as an incentive to upgrade. But it is available to buy separately for users that don't want to upgrade. The Umpf and Layers REs are from 2018 and 2017 so they were over a year old by the time R11 Suite was released. Processed Pianos, Electric Bass and Reason Drum kits are repackaged from 10+ years old refills. If it does happen I think its more likely Algoritm will be added to Reason 13 or 14. So you may be waiting a few years before they do include Algoritm with a version of Reason.

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Billy+
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Post 03 Mar 2021

You think we will see a R13 release?

I'm really looking forward to seeing what may / june will bring us and if we will all have to start call it Reason Plus instead of R12, and no I'm not saying it will be subscription only I just meant they might stop adding a major number to the product.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

TritoneAddiction
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Post 03 Mar 2021

miscend wrote:
03 Mar 2021
TritoneAddiction wrote:
03 Mar 2021

That's true. But plenty of the Suite stuff wasn't that old. Processed Pianos, Scenic, Umpf REs, Complex-1, Reason Drum Kits, Reason Electric Bass, Layers. And all that stuff got bundled up in a really good deal. Luckily I didn't purchase any of these things before buying Suite. I was lucky. Many other people weren't.
The point is RS has a way of including or bundling a lot of their products after the initial release. Sometimes pretty early on. Therefor I'm very hesitant to buy any RE from them seperately for full price.
Scenic was always part of Reason Suite as an incentive to upgrade. But it is available to buy separately for users that don't want to upgrade. The Umpf and Layers REs are from 2018 and 2017 so they were over a year old by the time R11 Suite was released. Processed Pianos, Electric Bass and Reason Drum kits are repackaged from 10+ years old refills. If it does happen I think its more likely Algoritm will be added to Reason 13 or 14. So you may be waiting a few years before they do include Algoritm with a version of Reason.
I think we look at this a bit differently. That's fine. I don't consider a year old device that old. They sold each of their RE instruments for €99 each, now their even more expensive. If you exclude the regular upgrade price of €129, then you got all that Suite stuff for just €120. That's quite a price difference. That's almost the price of one of their devices. In other words buying seperate REs from RS is a pretty bad deal.

Having said all that, sometimes it is worth spending the extra cash just to get want you want NOW. Algoritm might fall into that category for me. So I might make an exception if I really really want it after my trial is up. We'll see.

I think you're right about Algoritm not being part of R12. If they add it, it will most likely end up in 13 or 14 like you say.

Alright I think we've exhausted this side topic enough. Let's move on.

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Jagwah
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Post 03 Mar 2021

BRIGGS wrote:
03 Mar 2021
Jagwah wrote:
03 Mar 2021
Love it even more as each day passes. Seems like you guys really made Fm synthesis user friendly. Rapidly becoming my new go to for everything :thumbup:
It's magic. :puf_smile:
Indeed! Hoping to go pretty deep with it. :puf_bigsmile:

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ryanharlin
Reason Studios
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Post 03 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
03 Mar 2021
the stream was fun to watch apart from seeing patches for Algoritm that are for subscribers only especially on release, that kinda stings that patches were actively held back from those who would rather buy their devices.
I started to get into this idea on the stream but I didn't dive into it but it's worth mentioning here until people understand it: There are different teams at Reason Studios working on different things. No patches that the Algoritm team was working on were held back or diverted to Reason+. Instead, the Reason+ team which has their own group of sound designers made their own patches for their own sound packs. Algoritm patches will continue to be released in Reason+ sound packs just like brand new Europa and Thor patches are showing up in sound packs, but it doesn't mean that if Reason+ didn't exist those patches would've showed up in Europa's factory sound bank. There just wouldn't be a team making those patches at all.

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tronam
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Post 04 Mar 2021

I've always wanted a powerful, but intuitively easy to program FM synth, so I'll likely be picking this up as well once Reason gets updated for native Apple silicon. I'm guessing they'll wait to do this alongside the asset overhaul, but I wonder if this will be an R11.5 update or a full version upgrade. A high resolution refresh of the GUI isn't really major version worthy, but if they can also include a bunch of DAW improvements I could get behind it.

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Billy+
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Post 04 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
03 Mar 2021
the stream was fun to watch apart from seeing patches for Algoritm that are for subscribers only especially on release, that kinda stings that patches were actively held back from those who would rather buy their devices.
ryanharlin wrote:
03 Mar 2021
I started to get into this idea on the stream but I didn't dive into it but it's worth mentioning here until people understand it: There are different teams at Reason Studios working on different things. No patches that the Algoritm team was working on were held back or diverted to Reason+. Instead, the Reason+ team which has their own group of sound designers made their own patches for their own sound packs. Algoritm patches will continue to be released in Reason+ sound packs just like brand new Europa and Thor patches are showing up in sound packs, but it doesn't mean that if Reason+ didn't exist those patches would've showed up in Europa's factory sound bank. There just wouldn't be a team making those patches at all.
Hi Ryan I definitely understand that there are different teams working on the different aspects of RS products and that the content packs are being created by an external pool of creators and if you are saying that nobody is actively diverting the patches to R+ then I guess that's that but it's still a shame they didn't get included.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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