The DAW's future and investing in REs

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owg

Post 13 Feb 2021

Hi.
I am a happy Suite 11 owner, and currently considering investing in some RE's using my savings.

To be honest, I am getting concerned over the DAW's future in Reason. I am not all convinced, that the promises of the continuation of either the core DAW features or the perpetual license in the longer run holds true. It seems to me, that actual action on the DAW's behalf is lacking.

So I am now holding on to my cash, because I don't feel like investing too much in an ecosystem, that is moving faster towards the Rack as an external plugin to other DAWs.

For me the DAW works ok. It's definitely not the best in terms of granular editing, but it's fun and the SSL is great. I am just considering whether it's wise to pour my hard earned cash into Reason, if they would be better spent on VSTs and a more future-proof DAW.

What do you guys think?
Last edited by owg on 13 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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MannequinRaces
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Post 13 Feb 2021

Well... REs extend the rack which can be used in other DAWs as you know. If you want more sounds for the rack buy the REs, but wait for a sale. :) If you want more DAW features look at other DAWs that might fill what’s missing for you. Reason will never catch up to them at this rate of development. As far as the perpetual license we are all waiting to see how that plays out in the long run. If I were you if there’s a RE or two that catches your eye / ear, buy it next sale, then wait until R12 comes out to see what features it has and if it’s worth upgrading to YOU at the perpetual license price. If you don’t like what’s being offered shop around for a DAW that will compliment Reason. Remember the goal is to have fun while making music... or at least attempting it!

Threpus
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Post 13 Feb 2021

I think that RS has determined that it’s too late for them to catch up to the likes of Cubase, Ableton, Studio One, etc.- in other words, they lack the resources to add features to the DAW at a pace that would make it competitive with the major players. Reason 11 made that clear: when your best sales pitch is that the incompleteness of your product isn’t really a problem because there are more sophisticated alternatives on the market that can do the heavy lifting, you are acknowledging your status as an also-ran. I’m guessing that within a few years, they won’t even pretend it’s anything but a collection of devices. I sincerely hope I’m wrong. I love Reason- not so much for the devices, but the unique, intuitive, inspiring environment- and I’m desperate for them to make it a complete solution.

The rack itself is a worthwhile product, and RS should be able to sell (or rent) Reason as a bundle of instruments and effects with some simple user-friendly recording software thrown in... they just can’t market it as a professional-grade DAW. That being said, I don’t think you have to worry about whether your REs will be usable in the future- the rack is here to stay. The subscription will give RS the cash flow they need to invest back into their products, and all of those products depend on the viability of the rack. We may see a flood of devices from RS in the next couple of years as they try to make the rack more appealing- and with more users, there may be more third-party developers looking to take advantage of the enhanced connectivity the rack affords them. If you like the connectivity/CV options that you get with extensions- or if you can get something on sale for less than the price of a VST- you should go for it. Use Reason if you prefer it to other DAWs, and don’t worry about whether you’re wasting time or money if it meets your needs now. Run the rack in something else when something else does the job better.

That said, every DAW has its strengths, and it is good to mix things up to avoid stagnation and acquaint yourself with other ways of doing things. To that end- and to prepare yourself for a possible life without Reason- I think it would be wise to familiarize yourself with another DAW if you haven’t already. If you’re on Mac, Logic is a no-brainer- but Garage Band is just a simplified version of Logic that will get you accustomed to the basic functions and workflow if you don’t want to spring for the full version. If you’re on PC, I highly recommend Reaper. It’s $60 and runs circles around Reason in terms of functionality- but I admit it isn’t nearly as fun or inspiring. I’ve been splitting my time between Reason and Reaper.

Good luck.
Last edited by Threpus on 14 Feb 2021, edited 2 times in total.

owg

Post 13 Feb 2021

To me the HUGE advantage in Reason's favor is the ability to create self contained files. When collaborating it just works best that way. I would be extremely sorry to learn, that the DAW features were left behind.

In fact I would also leave Reason behind all together, I think. Solely as a plug-in it feels more fragmented. I would rather sell it and get some good synths etc. If I had to switch to another DAW I would rather start from scratch and build a new environment.

That's why I think it's probably better not to invest any further into Reason right now.
Last edited by owg on 13 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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QVprod
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Post 13 Feb 2021

If an optional subscription scares you, the truth is it’s likely that all DAWs will eventually go this route. There’s no escaping it. Reason is the 3rd one to do it and Slate, to my knowledge, did this with his plugins before anyone else a few years ago. Going somewhere else will likely put you in the same situation in the near future. A subscription only option is highly unlikely for any DAW. Just use and buy what you like.

ortxedys
Posts: 24
Joined: 02 Nov 2018

Post 13 Feb 2021

As a former Reason apologist, I genuinely feel you should go elsewhere. The RRP plugin, while convenient, performs terrible next to other stuff. The fact they didn't make it multitimbral is for sure a missed opportunity. I'd say do it if you really don't doubt you're sticking with Reason.

Ive put some money into RE's and kind of regret doing so. While I agree with the other user claiming most companies are going this route eventually. To me it just sounds like a justification for whatever is happening. I ended up going with a DAW I feel is worth my money (FL) and continue to use Reason bits here and there in the plugin.

But to answer the potential question, do I see myself using Reason long term? No. But I have been for almost a decade.

Only using it because it's kind of a pain to sell a license when you can get the whole thing for $20 a month. While I don't hate Reason. I will not be spending another dime on them. You can say I'm slowly weaning myself off of it.

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antic604
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Post 13 Feb 2021

owg wrote:
13 Feb 2021
So I am now holding on to my cash, because I don't feel like investing too much in an ecosystem, that is moving faster towards the Rack as an external plugin to other DAWs.
Just FYI, Live is -20% off until 23rd when v11 finally comes out :)
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hurricane
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Post 13 Feb 2021

QVprod wrote:
13 Feb 2021
If an optional subscription scares you, the truth is it’s likely that all DAWs will eventually go this route.
Except for Logic. Say what you want about it being tied to a Mac, but I've been using it on the same 2012 Mac mini for almost 9 years now and I expect to be on it for at least another 3. And all I paid was the initial $199 for X and have paid nothing ever since and have seen a gazillion amazing and free updates. If you want to invest in a DAW, Logic is the wisest and safest choice. Sucks if you're on Windows though too bad so sad.
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antic604
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Post 13 Feb 2021

owg wrote:
13 Feb 2021
To me the HUGE advantage in Reason's favor is the ability to create self contained files. When collaborating it just works best that way. I would be extremely sorry to learn, that the DAW features were left behind.
You don't get out much, do you? ;)

I'm not aware of any DAW on the market right now that does not save the project to a single directory with all the required files, except for 3rd party plugins (like Reason); so you then just .zip it and send to your collaborator. The added advantage of the fact that it's not a single file, is that you can access components of it. While working in Studio One, I can - still from within current project - access the files of my other project and import full tracks, MIDI clips, audio, presets and device chains.

Music tech enthusiast.
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My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 13 Feb 2021

antic604 wrote:
13 Feb 2021
owg wrote:
13 Feb 2021
To me the HUGE advantage in Reason's favor is the ability to create self contained files. When collaborating it just works best that way. I would be extremely sorry to learn, that the DAW features were left behind.
You don't get out much, do you? ;)

I'm not aware of any DAW on the market right now that does not save the project to a single directory with all the required files, except for 3rd party plugins (like Reason); so you then just .zip it and send to your collaborator. The added advantage of the fact that it's not a single file, is that you can access components of it. While working in Studio One, I can - still from within current project - access the files of my other project and import full tracks, MIDI clips, audio, presets and device chains.

Live can do this too. Quite convenient.
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hurricane
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Post 13 Feb 2021

antic604 wrote:
13 Feb 2021
owg wrote:
13 Feb 2021
To me the HUGE advantage in Reason's favor is the ability to create self contained files. When collaborating it just works best that way. I would be extremely sorry to learn, that the DAW features were left behind.
You don't get out much, do you? ;)
Yeah, so how HUGE of an advantage is it when others do the same thing?

Like Logic. And you can pick what you want to include:
logic sc.png


And then you get an overview of the project as the icon so you can tell how your project looks without opening it:

icon.png

And then when you 'quick look' it, you get a bigger view:

qp.png

Step out of that Reason cave you're trapped in every once in a while, bro. :puf_smile:
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Mac mini | Logic Pro | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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joeyluck
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Post 13 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
13 Feb 2021
antic604 wrote:
13 Feb 2021

You don't get out much, do you? ;)
Yeah, so how HUGE of an advantage is it when others do the same thing?

Like Logic. And you can pick what you want to include:

logic sc.png



And then you get an overview of the project as the icon so you can tell how your project looks without opening it:


icon.png


And then when you 'quick look' it, you get a bigger view:


qp.png


Step out of that Reason cave you're trapped in every once in a while, bro. :puf_smile:
Oh and don't get me started on not being able to save versions with Reason. My poor hard drives lol.

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hurricane
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Post 13 Feb 2021

joeyluck wrote:
13 Feb 2021

Oh and don't get me started on not being able to save versions with Reason. My poor hard drives lol.
Handiest thing ever, especially when you want to save different mixes of the same song. :clap:
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Mac mini | Logic Pro | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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Billy+
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Post 13 Feb 2021

Looks like everyone has answered this one well and truly.

Wait for sales on the RE's you like you can always use them under another DAW as RRP and if you're interested in a DAW that just keeps getting better and better buy Logic.

I've got £200 stashed away for my V12 upgrade if/when it becomes available and if it's not worth it Logic here I come, yes it means I'm locked in Mac but I can't stand Windows so my next device was probably going to be a Mac and with the reviews for M1 & native build performance it's a no brainier.
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antic604
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Post 13 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
13 Feb 2021
Yeah, so how HUGE of an advantage is it when others do the same thing?

...

Step out of that Reason cave you're trapped in every once in a while, bro. :puf_smile:
I didn't mean to say it's just Studio One that does this, I just remembered there's a short video about this particular example. All my DAW's can do this: Live, Bitwig, Studio One and Cubase. I don't own any Apple hardware so I'm not familiar with Logic, hence I've not mentioned it.

I'm not in any cave, "bro"
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hurricane
Posts: 1611
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Post 13 Feb 2021

antic604 wrote:
13 Feb 2021
hurricane wrote:
13 Feb 2021
Yeah, so how HUGE of an advantage is it when others do the same thing?

...

Step out of that Reason cave you're trapped in every once in a while, bro. :puf_smile:
I didn't mean to say it's just Studio One that does this, I just remembered there's a short video about this particular example. All my DAW's can do this: Live, Bitwig, Studio One and Cubase. I don't own any Apple hardware so I'm not familiar with Logic, hence I've not mentioned it.

I'm not in any cave, "bro"
That was for the OP - I can see how you thought I was talking to you but I was agreeing with you...BRUH. :D
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Mac mini | Logic Pro | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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QVprod
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Post 13 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
13 Feb 2021
QVprod wrote:
13 Feb 2021
If an optional subscription scares you, the truth is it’s likely that all DAWs will eventually go this route.
Except for Logic. Say what you want about it being tied to a Mac, but I've been using it on the same 2012 Mac mini for almost 9 years now and I expect to be on it for at least another 3. And all I paid was the initial $199 for X and have paid nothing ever since and have seen a gazillion amazing and free updates. If you want to invest in a DAW, Logic is the wisest and safest choice. Sucks if you're on Windows though too bad so sad.
Yes Logic is probably excluded from this

Rackman
Posts: 109
Joined: 28 Dec 2019

Post 14 Feb 2021

If Reason has a long term future, it will be as very niche subscription-only plugin for use in other Draws. Pick up Reatper (or whatever other DAW) takes your fancy and use Reason as a plugin if you've already spent money on REs that you don't want to lose. Of you haven't already spent the money I'd forget Reason and take a serious look at VCV for modular which is vastly better than Reason I that regard. At the very least give yourself a couple of days with Reaper and VCV (it will be available as a plugin in other Draws very soon). I can pretty much guarantee you won't want to use Reason as a DAW again, and if it's the modular aspect of REs that bought you to Reason, you'll be doing all that on VCV from now on.

Ask yourself these questions:
- Do I trust Reason Studios to maintain Reason in the future?
- Is Reason going to catch up with other DAWs or have significant money invested in the DAW aspect any time soon?
- Are you content buying something that you can never sell?

My answer is no to all three questions. I don't trust Reason Studios as far as I can spit, they clearly have no intention of improving the DAW as they are putting all their eggs in the plugin basket, and I'd rather buy a VST that I can use wherever I like.

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mjxl
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Post 15 Feb 2021

Don't forget the whole "run Reason on any browser" and that RE's will be running inside those sessions.

Also there were lines , which said something like "the RE's will be able to run on anything" (meaning on your hardware music thingiemabobbers, fridges, hell maybe on navigation systems and shit like that (like DOOM for example))

The daw might not be the best of the bunch, but there's a lot of tech behind all of it that is (and will be in the future) very interesting/epic !
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