Algoritm : new FM synth from RS

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Billy+
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Post 17 Feb 2021

To be fair I was actually commenting to this thread but I'm fine with it being moved apart from I've been trying to stay away from the chaos thread, it takes to long to catch up.

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Billy+
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Post 17 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
17 Feb 2021

Who are we talking about? Totally missed that video!
Yeah it's my fault it got moved to viewtopic.php?p=543235#p543235

Not sure why as I was commenting to this thread but I guess it's turned into one and the same.

I was trying to be positive?

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BRIGGS
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Post 17 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
16 Feb 2021
BRIGGS wrote:
16 Feb 2021
The problem is.. the money....full stop.

Government issued fiat currencies, are hot garbage.
Curious as to what your argument is. Are you suggesting cost of living should remain the same, forever?

I feel like we may be causing this thread to meander from the topic of synthesizers, as Algoritm is the real news in this thread - so I apologize for my part. Maybe we should try to get things back on track for Algoritm in this thread and bring your issues with Reason+, subs, perpetual license upgrades/increases to the Reason+ thread? :thumbup:
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MaMue
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Dear Reason Studios,

thanks for the effort, but:

WE DON'T NEED MORE SYNTHS, PLAYERS OR SOUNDS - WE NEED BETTER DAW FUNCTIONALITY!!!!!

Greets

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aeox
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Post 17 Feb 2021

MaMue wrote:
17 Feb 2021
Dear Reason Studios,

thanks for the effort, but:

WE DON'T NEED MORE SYNTHS, PLAYERS OR SOUNDS - WE NEED BETTER DAW FUNCTIONALITY!!!!!

Greets
That's what I thought about complex-1, then I started using it :D

Probably not a good idea to assign instrument/synth developers to core DAW functionality features. There is a different team for that stuff, I'd think. I could be wrong here, but it seems like different fields of expertise.

Surely they are always working on or testing new DAW features. A lot of it could be research and development, etc.

When they had to completely rework how the audio was handled, that took a lot of effort and time to achieve (apparently)
Now they have been working on the hi res update which I imagine is another time consuming one.

I think once they get some of these major hurdles out of the way, the smaller( often requested) features might come in more frequently.

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arnigretar
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Post 17 Feb 2021

i'm always happy to see new synths from props. complex-1 is great, one of the new ones, and thor is still one of the best soft synths ever made imo. looking forward to see what they do with this1.

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BRIGGS
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Post 17 Feb 2021

arnigretar wrote:
17 Feb 2021
i'm always happy to see new synths from props. complex-1 is great, one of the new ones, and thor is still one of the best soft synths ever made imo. looking forward to see what they do with this1.
:thumbup:

I expect Algortim will have a similar vibe. :puf_smile:
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EnochLight
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Indeed, Complex-1 is one of my favorite synth plugins, right alongside Grain and Europa. These 3 have kept me happy for a very long time, and I'm really looking forward to Algoritm. I've got PX7, but I'm sort of bored with it being a plain old Yamaha DX7 clone - pretty bog standard FM synth. Algoritm is going to bring something very fresh from the looks of it.
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Billy+
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Post 17 Feb 2021

I think that Randomiser could be fun!

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BRIGGS
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Billy+ wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I think that Randomiser could be fun!
Endless fun! :puf_smile:
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SebAudio
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Post 17 Feb 2021

BRIGGS wrote:
17 Feb 2021
Billy+ wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I think that Randomiser could be fun!
Endless fun! :puf_smile:
I understand the fun factor of using a randomizer but don’t you think you miss the fun of discovering the specific synthesis method used ?
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Billy+
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Post 17 Feb 2021

SebAudio wrote:
17 Feb 2021

I understand the fun factor of using a randomizer but don’t you think you miss the fun of discovering the specific synthesis method used ?
Nope

Clicking random till things sound interesting then tweaking it some more seems like fun to

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turn2on
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Post 17 Feb 2021

buddard wrote:
16 Feb 2021
I would argue that random modulation sources and randomization of patches are two very different things, since they are used for entirely different purposes.
A synth can definitely have both, like Nostromo does for example. :-)
Yes, totally agree with this. But, spoiler of Algorithm show to us only few parameters modulated by random source (like a very simple modulation matrix for random source). Its not randomisation of patches and very basic functional. No something special, more like a traditional matrix in special section
Last edited by turn2on on 17 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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BRIGGS
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Post 17 Feb 2021

SebAudio wrote:
17 Feb 2021
BRIGGS wrote:
17 Feb 2021


Endless fun! :puf_smile:
I understand the fun factor of using a randomizer but don’t you think you miss the fun of discovering the specific synthesis method used ?
Not if you already understand FM. :lol:
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buddard
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Post 17 Feb 2021

turn2on wrote:
17 Feb 2021
buddard wrote:
16 Feb 2021
I would argue that random modulation sources and randomization of patches are two very different things, since they are used for entirely different purposes.
A synth can definitely have both, like Nostromo does for example. :-)
Yes, totally agree with this. But, spoiler of Algorithm show to us only few parameters modulated by random source (like a very simple modulation matrix for random source). Its not randomisation of patches and very basic functional. No something special, more like a traditional matrix in special section
I think it's hard to interpret the screenshot, to be honest, but you may be right!
We'll see when it's released. :puf_smile:

dusan.cani
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Post 17 Feb 2021

I am curious if the new synth would work in Reason 10.

It's pity they didn't follow the traditional UI design that fits the overall feeling of the rack. I mean, this "flat", "paper-like", shadowless design makes me feel like those controls are floating in the vacuum :D...Why they mix various unrelated design styles ? (flat design in one device, classic design in other devices). They did UI design very well for Complex-1 - it looks sexy, inviting and it matches the original Reason design style of UI.

I am also curious what new features or concept it will offer ? Is it only recreation of classic FM concept (several sine operators in various FM algorithms) ?

Regarding the Complex-1 - I thought they will bring Complex-2 with new additional modules (more oscillators like wavetable, additive, etc., new advanced filter types, modulators, effects, etc). This would be really cool because this synth looks and sounds really good. It would bring a lot of joy with new modules. I would definitely prefer this than another clone of classic FM synth :D

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fieldframe
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Post 17 Feb 2021

dusan.cani wrote:
17 Feb 2021
It's pity they didn't follow the traditional UI design that fits the overall feeling of the rack. I mean, this "flat", "paper-like", shadowless design makes me feel like those controls are floating in the vacuum :D...Why they mix various unrelated design styles ? (flat design in one device, classic design in other devices). They did UI design very well for Complex-1 - it looks sexy, inviting and it matches the original Reason design style of UI.

I am also curious what new features or concept it will offer ? Is it only recreation of classic FM concept (several sine operators in various FM algorithms) ?
I guess we'll see how it all works together, but if, as the teaser implies, there's a top "hardware" part and a main "floaty software UI things" section, it would start to really pull away from the physical metaphor of the rack. Part of what makes the rack special is its hardware-inspired aesthetic, and Rack Extensions that just look like little VSTs lose some of that magic.

As for FM, I'm hoping the architecture has a few things in common with Korg's Opsix, especially filter FM.
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joeyluck
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Post 17 Feb 2021

dusan.cani wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I am curious if the new synth would work in Reason 10.

It's pity they didn't follow the traditional UI design that fits the overall feeling of the rack. I mean, this "flat", "paper-like", shadowless design makes me feel like those controls are floating in the vacuum :D...
When I look at the image, I see hard controls in the top section and then I imagine the modules being on a large touch display. Hardware synths can have displays as well...

Image

Image


Maybe the lack of glare makes it hard to imagine? But there's no glare on other displays such as found on Grain, and I don't have trouble imagining those flat parts as being displays...

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EnochLight
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Post 17 Feb 2021

dusan.cani wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I am curious if the new synth would work in Reason 10.
I don't see why not. I don't think there was an RE SDK update from R10 to R11, but maybe an RE dev can confirm.
dusan.cani wrote:
17 Feb 2021
It's pity they didn't follow the traditional UI design that fits the overall feeling of the rack. I mean, this "flat", "paper-like", shadowless design makes me feel like those controls are floating in the vacuum :D...Why they mix various unrelated design styles ? (flat design in one device, classic design in other devices). They did UI design very well for Complex-1 - it looks sexy, inviting and it matches the original Reason design style of UI.
I feel the opposite about Algoritm - I love what they did with it. And as a major fan of Complex-1, I also love that one as well - but... that "show cables" option... :shock: :? :lol:

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dusan.cani
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Post 17 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
17 Feb 2021

And as a major fan of Complex-1, I also love that one as well - but... that "show cables" option... :shock: :? :lol:
Of course I was referring to "non-cable" UI mode :puf_bigsmile:

It would be awesome if Complex had "swappable" mode for all its modules. You start with empty modular rack and connect modules whatever you like. Choosing components like different kind of oscillator, filters, modulators, effects...and subsequent update of those components, so list of modules would grow, they could be purchased in the shop separately. And polyphonic mode ! I don't see any reason why software modular must have only mono mode.

m.arthur
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Very curious if these are indeed "sine only" operators.

The folks who are instantly angry about that aren't really thinking things through 100%, I'd argue. This is at least a 7 operator synth, maybe 8, possibly NINE. The whole purpose of the additional operators is to create complex waveforms via modulation. It's typically the few-operator synths (things with 4, like FM4 in Reason and Operator in Ableton) that offer more complex waveforms beyond sine, because you actually need them more since you're working with just four operators.

This can be argued in many directions, of course. But it's very possible their reasoning for a sine-only FM synth was: "with 7 to 9 operators, there's little need for individual complex waveforms; the whole point of the synth is to generate those complex waveforms via the huge number of available operators."

It's less convenient, sure, but it's also "true FM synthesis", at least in it's original, purest form. The DX7 had nothing but sines, of course. BUT, then we see that Algoritm has a filter, so, well, so much for "true FM synthesis."

In any case, if you have 9 operators, and you make one of them a Saw or a Tri-Saw or whatever instead of a Sine, it's highly unlikely you'll be using all the extra Operators as well, in most typical usage scenarios. There's a ceiling with how complex you want your resulting complex waveforms to actually be. I think we'd all find that with 7 to 9 operators all (or at least many of) using non-sine waveforms, the result will be.....a trash pile of noise.

Just thoughts. Will be very interesting to see what this synth really is, I'm intrigued for sure (as a big-time FM synth guy).

DecafDreams
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Post 17 Feb 2021

dusan.cani wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I am curious if the new synth would work in Reason 10.
As per the above, I also can't see why not. There hasn't been a new SDK, so any new REs should still run in R10 (unless Algoritm is based on a brand new SDK which has yet to be announced!)

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turn2on
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Post 17 Feb 2021

This is very interesting to listen about classic true FM design with only sine waveforms into operators.
Look, TX81z and his brother DX7 (rev.2) - based on the 8 waveforms! :) why people try to think that only Sine operators is a classic??) look at any other FM synth, only sine is a real limits.
Today 2021. FM just a synthesis to modulate pitch with brightness effect, no any magic of clean sine waveforms. Need to add, Yamaha’s DX7 have 12 bit our 16bit sine to nearest result because limited by converters.
All this possible to reproduce. Very well.
Idea to have only sine waveforms is ok!
But remember that many other FM synths, also from Yamaha, after DX7 rev.1 include much more waveforms. DX7 rev2 also very popular and have wider range of sounds of course. So I can understand logic about simple sine OPs if you have 9 OPs. But I’m more interesting in variations to build sound from various sources and there no hard to use tons of waveforms at 4 ops. And this much more interesting than using only sine.
Look at TX87z, FS1R and modern OpSix at the end.

I’m very interesting about Algorithm possibilities and work with it! This must be a good synth.
But who ask there about modern possibilities like a OpSix FilterMod, and other synthesis modes, search original true waveforms, we create WTFM for this.
Built in true waveforms and big bank of additional waveforms. RingMod, Filter FM, Wavetable FM to modulate FM.. and much more like a OpSix.

So, if this is only sine OP with 7-9 ops, this is also very interesting at the end.
Anyway, we extend sale for WTFM to compare and select from them.
But I’m prefer not to compare them, they can be very different with big pluses.
Who said one FM is enough?)))
FM synthesis not so hard and very creative.
About modern FMs, Phantom have built in powerful FM as example.
And all we interesting at 2021 into more deeper FM possibilities.
But yes, classical traditional old school FM also needed to close DX7 rev1 with there tons of ready presets. Like a real old school FM with some modern possibilities.
But who prefer today DX7 rev1 hardware when OpSix is a real magic device in his possibilities into hardware, exclude fs1r and onboard FM from some workstations

m.arthur
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Post 17 Feb 2021

turn2on wrote:
17 Feb 2021
why people try to think that only Sine operators is a classic??
Oh I dunno, maybe because the inventor of this form of synthesis, John Chowning, created it this way: with Sine waves.

His original paper, The Synthesis of Complex Audio Spectra by Means of Frequency Modulation, was the beginning of FM synthesis as we know it. And guess what, it only used Sine waves.

So, that's why. FM synthesis in its original form used just Sine waves. Like the DX7.

If you so desperately need other waveforms, perhaps this new Reason Studios synth will not be for you.

But, we shall see. Perhaps it has some tricks up its sleeves. This whole discussion is based on 24% or so of an otherwise hidden image!

dusan.cani
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Post 18 Feb 2021

Some inspiration before the new synth arrives :-)


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