Algoritm : new FM synth from RS

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esselfortium
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Post 16 Feb 2021

Faastwalker wrote:
16 Feb 2021
BRIGGS wrote:
16 Feb 2021


Or.... wait till march madness. :crazy:
Will there be sales on Reason Studios devices anymore?

Wouldn't that be a little disingenuous to Reason+ subscribers?
EastWest’s Composer Cloud subscription hasn’t stopped them from running deep sales on all their products, and the deep sales haven’t stopped people from subscribing, either.

You can basically count on one hand the number of major audio software companies that don’t run sales.

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Faastwalker
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Post 16 Feb 2021

esselfortium wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
16 Feb 2021

Will there be sales on Reason Studios devices anymore?

Wouldn't that be a little disingenuous to Reason+ subscribers?
EastWest’s Composer Cloud subscription hasn’t stopped them from running deep sales on all their products, and the deep sales haven’t stopped people from subscribing, either.

You can basically count on one hand the number of major audio software companies that don’t run sales.
True. Be interesting to see how things pan out. I wouldn't buy Algoritm myself, instead waiting for the (usual) inevitable sale. Currently sales happen so often it seems ridiculous buying at RRP. That's why I thought they might change this policy post Reason+.

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fieldframe
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Post 16 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Counterpoint: Reason upgrades have been the same price for well over a decade. I don't know about any of you, but I have never worked for someone for a decade and got paid the same amount. If I didn't get a raise each year, just to adjust for the cost of living - my ass was out of there and I'd find another job that paid me my worth.

Why would you expect Reason upgrades to cost the same amount forever?

People need to get paid, man. Costs go up, the cost of living goes up, inflation goes up, that gas bill in Stockholm doesn't go down each year - IT GOES UP. Again, why would anyone who lives in reality think that upgrades would cost the same amount - forever....?
Assuming a constant sales volume, Reason Studios would have to raise prices to keep up – I'm not sure what metrics Sweden or the EU use to measure inflation, but in the US, the Consumer Price Index says $129 in 2010 equates to about $153 in 2021.

However, I also highly doubt Reason sales volume has remained flat for a decade. I'm not sure where to look for stats on this, but the home recording market has probably grown significantly in that time. However much it's grown, I would guess it's way more than the roughly 18% of compounded inflation.

So inflation plays a role in software pricing, but probably a minor one when it's in a growing market.
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EnochLight
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Post 16 Feb 2021

fieldframe wrote:
16 Feb 2021
EnochLight wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Counterpoint: Reason upgrades have been the same price for well over a decade. I don't know about any of you, but I have never worked for someone for a decade and got paid the same amount. If I didn't get a raise each year, just to adjust for the cost of living - my ass was out of there and I'd find another job that paid me my worth.

Why would you expect Reason upgrades to cost the same amount forever?

People need to get paid, man. Costs go up, the cost of living goes up, inflation goes up, that gas bill in Stockholm doesn't go down each year - IT GOES UP. Again, why would anyone who lives in reality think that upgrades would cost the same amount - forever....?
Assuming a constant sales volume, Reason Studios would have to raise prices to keep up – I'm not sure what metrics Sweden or the EU use to measure inflation, but in the US, the Consumer Price Index says $129 in 2010 equates to about $153 in 2021.

However, I also highly doubt Reason sales volume has remained flat for a decade. I'm not sure where to look for stats on this, but the home recording market has probably grown significantly in that time. However much it's grown, I would guess it's way more than the roughly 18% of compounded inflation.

So inflation plays a role in software pricing, but probably a minor one when it's in a growing market.
True, true. All good points. I guess my point is - costs for commodities always go up. When the iPhone first launched in 2007, it could be bought for as little as $199 USD. Now, you're lucky to find the SE and other base models for under $399-$499 USD. And that's coming from a company that went from an eval of $173 billion in 2007 to over $2 trillion in 2021.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 16 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
16 Feb 2021
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Not forever. But also not as a way to make your want to subscribe instead as a means to save money. That's my argument.
So you'd prefer they'd time a pay increase for their staff away from a new product launch to diversify/increase revenue? Got it.
Not sure where you get that. Not sure I understand what you meant. I don't like your attitude right now.

If you think of how much money we currently spend on version upgrades, imagine upgrading each new version, which I understand is circa 1.5 years apart based on how it has been, according to what others have said here.

That's €230 every 3 years.

One year subscription costs €240

If they did as another user says, to whom my comments in the topic were directed to even though I didn't quote him, which is to inflate the prices in order to make it like it would be cheaper to subscribe, then the price increase would have to be ridiculously high if they expect €240 per year to be considered cheap compared to the alternative perpetual license upgrade. Do you follow?

I think it would be stupid to go that route. Money doesn't grow on trees for me, and I can't afford €240 per year right now. I got other expenses. I can go my entire career from this point on without ever upgrading Reason again. I don't need the subscription or any new devices or any upgrades.

I want to have the new features and the new devices, but I don't need them and can live a happy life without them.

Therefore if they ever went that route I would have to just skip a bunch of versions so it makes sense to me financially, cause it's a luxury, not a necessity, and I can afford the current prices and even reasonable increase in price. But a move to increase the price so high that €240 X year sounds cheap? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I can wait a few years without upgrading.

However, I don't think they'll go that route because I trust they know what they're doing, as opposed to what one other certain user claims.

Yeah back to the synth... I wish they had just released it today instead of teasing it.
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EnochLight
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Post 16 Feb 2021

My attitude? Admittedly I can be snarky, but it's all in good fun - don't take things personal. I'm just saying that it's unusual that the cost for a Reason upgrade (for perpetual license holders like 99% of us are right now) hasn't changed in over a decade, and it's completely reasonable that RS increases that cost at some point. Launching a new sub service is as good as a time as any, I would imagine. Not a big deal, really.

Seriously, for instance if they increased it from $129 USD to $169 USD, that's a difference of what - $40 USD? That's like a little over 1 tank of gas from where I'm from (something I burn through in less than 2 weeks). I'd say that it's 100% worth it for any working musician or hobbyist alike.

Man, again we're digressing from Algoritm talk to Reason upgrades/R+ stuff. Let's get this thread back on topic, shall we?
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 16 Feb 2021

Yeah, I didn't make my point clear enough.

Algorithm!!!! Can't wait.
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EnochLight
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Post 16 Feb 2021

Algorithm!!!! Same!!
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ECHLN
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Post 17 Feb 2021

I still haven't used all the new sounds in 11 yet and now this. I got a lot of catching up to do :lol:
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antic604
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Post 17 Feb 2021

ECHLN wrote:
17 Feb 2021
I still haven't used all the new sounds in 11 yet and now this. I got a lot of catching up to do :lol:
You still have a one full week ;)
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antic604
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Loque wrote:
16 Feb 2021
algoritmfm.jpg
I'm a bit dissapointed there's no chooser for OP's waveform, which would suggest it's always a sine?

WTFM or even the old FM4 look way more comprehensive.

Hope I'm wrong, though.
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Breach The Sky
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Post 17 Feb 2021

This is apparently an thread for venting price-related stuff? :?

Anyway, trying to catching a glimpse of something interesting in the flashing GIF, I believe that the operator-section is one big custom-screen-widget thing like with Complex-1, possibly? That, coupled with the "x" in the corners of modules that someone mentioned, suggests modularity. I wonder how many modules there is, and how extensive the routing can get.. It sound pretty good, but not exactly much to go on.

Reason Studios (almost) always gets the "fun-factor" just right. At least for me. :P

DecafDreams
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Post 17 Feb 2021

How much do we reckon RS will sell Algoritm to Reason 10 and Reason 11 license holders for? Will they jack it up in price to try and make R+ seem more attractive a deal?
Last edited by DecafDreams on 17 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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RoryM0
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Post 17 Feb 2021

DecafDreams wrote:
17 Feb 2021
How much do we reckon RS will sell Alogirtm to Reason 10 and Reason 11 license holders for? Will they jack it up in price to try and make R+ seem more attractive a deal?
99 of your local currency unit I'd say.

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antic604
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Post 17 Feb 2021

DecafDreams wrote:
17 Feb 2021
How much do we reckon RS will sell Alogirtm to Reason 10 and Reason 11 license holders for? Will they jack it up in price to try and make R+ seem more attractive a deal?
99-129, with expected mean of 109 :)

I think they're making Reason+ attractive enough with the statement I encouraged Mattias to make over on Twitter yesterday, i.e. that it's not their plan anymore to add existing REs to Reason DAW - they will always be "add-ons" that you can buy or access "free" with Reason+.

Hopefully that does NOT mean we won't be getting any new devices with new versions of Reason at all (he alluded we would in his blog post when Reason+ was announced). I wouldn't mind a new delay, reverb or multi-FX, a generic LFO/MSEG device or even a new synth. Or new native player(s). But I understand those won't be available in the shop, or definitely not prior to their introduction in new Reason DAW version.
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Harmen
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Post 17 Feb 2021

I'm pretty happy with the new update on the FM side of things,.
It means they got enough developers to do the hard work. In a world where big company's have unlimited funds for good programmers, where everybody get paid way more; relatively.

back to the design.
As I see it, it is less Skeuomorfic, more functional,. is what FM needs as a synthesis form.
How many operators is the question.

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Loque
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Post 17 Feb 2021

antic604 wrote:
17 Feb 2021
Loque wrote:
16 Feb 2021
algoritmfm.jpg
I'm a bit dissapointed there's no chooser for OP's waveform, which would suggest it's always a sine?

WTFM or even the old FM4 look way more comprehensive.

Hope I'm wrong, though.
Yea, fair point. At least some more wave forms or even sample loading or an external audio input would be very nice.
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Typea_music
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Post 17 Feb 2021

antic604 wrote:
17 Feb 2021
Loque wrote:
16 Feb 2021
algoritmfm.jpg
I'm a bit dissapointed there's no chooser for OP's waveform, which would suggest it's always a sine?

WTFM or even the old FM4 look way more comprehensive.

Hope I'm wrong, though.
A new synth in 2021 that only operates with sine waveforms .. lmao !! this people are reselling the same product ideas with new makeup every year :(
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antic604
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Typea_music wrote:
17 Feb 2021
A new synth in 2021 that only operates with sine waveforms .. lmao !! this people are reselling the same product ideas with new makeup every year :(
Well, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. We've only seen 1/4 to 1/3 of the device's GUI. Perhaps there's more on the right side where the algorithm / patching is or maybe at the bottom, where LFOs / MSEGs / modualtion matrix / FX hopefully are :)

Bitwig's wavetable stuff added in 3.3 spoiled us, eh? ;) :D
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bxbrkrz
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Post 17 Feb 2021

As long as it is as powerful as the Kernel Synthesis stuff inside Iridium.

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guitfnky
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Post 17 Feb 2021

that guy’s videos are—as a rule—terrible, biased, and misinforming. unfortunately, he presents things in a believable way, so people actually buy the bullshit he says.

picked a random spot in the video and within 30 seconds found something that’s flat-out untrue (no surprise). he says “software is valueless at the moment you purchase it”. complete garbage. if it was valueless, no one would buy it. value is defined by the individual.

he’s like he spiritual guru of audio production—makes you feel good about your opinion if you share his, but otherwise just a loud bag of hot air.

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EnochLight
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Post 17 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
17 Feb 2021
that guy’s videos are—as a rule—terrible, biased, and misinforming. unfortunately, he presents things in a believable way, so people actually buy the bullshit he says.

picked a random spot in the video and within 30 seconds found something that’s flat-out untrue (no surprise). he says “software is valueless at the moment you purchase it”. complete garbage. if it was valueless, no one would buy it. value is defined by the individual.

he’s like he spiritual guru of audio production—makes you feel good about your opinion if you share his, but otherwise just a loud bag of hot air.
Who are we talking about? Totally missed that video!
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Billy+
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Why did my post get deleted?

---Edit----

It's not deleted it got move :thumbs_up:

viewtopic.php?p=543235#p543235
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antic604
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Post 17 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
17 Feb 2021
...he says “software is valueless at the moment you purchase it”. complete garbage. if it was valueless, no one would buy it. value is defined by the individual...
He looks at this particular thing from his unique position, i.e. a) he's a big proponent of hardware that doesn't lose value once you buy it, b) he probably gets most plugins for free and those that he bought are tools he never plans to sell.

In that context the moment he "bought" a plugin it's only worth is what he can achieve it with it, but it doesn't have intrinsic value for re-sale (like a hardware compressor would) and also doesn't have value for its developer, because they didn't give away anything tangible - it's just one of the infinite copies they can make at no cost.

It's a silly argument, close to one used by people justifying piracy because "pirating software or music isn't like stealing a car".
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guitfnky
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Post 17 Feb 2021

EnochLight wrote:
17 Feb 2021
guitfnky wrote:
17 Feb 2021
that guy’s videos are—as a rule—terrible, biased, and misinforming. unfortunately, he presents things in a believable way, so people actually buy the bullshit he says.

picked a random spot in the video and within 30 seconds found something that’s flat-out untrue (no surprise). he says “software is valueless at the moment you purchase it”. complete garbage. if it was valueless, no one would buy it. value is defined by the individual.

he’s like he spiritual guru of audio production—makes you feel good about your opinion if you share his, but otherwise just a loud bag of hot air.
Who are we talking about? Totally missed that video!
apparently someone moved it... I’d be appreciative if you could move my comment (and Antic’s) along with it, otherwise our comments don’t make any sense.

viewtopic.php?p=543235#p543235

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