Will Reason Studios let RE's just disappear?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
chaosroyale
Posts: 543
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 10 Jan 2021

I noticed some people complaining that the Air-raid audio devices seem to have disappeared.

Here's a question: if a user has downloaded an RE, and that maker withdraws from the shop, can we still re-download the RE when we update our PC/authorizer?

I ask because I use the crossfader RE in nearly everything, and I would hate to lose it.

With VST devices, you can save a copy of the installer program or the DLL, so you never need to worry, but with RE's it looks like one day you might get a new PC, try to download your devices, and "poof" it's just gone. Is that the case?

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 8268
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 10 Jan 2021

Yes, if you bought them, they still are available for you. Thats one of the big benefits of RE.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Billy
Posts: 789
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 10 Jan 2021

The only thing that seems to happen is the product image disappears, I've got a few rack extensions that have been removed from the store for one reason or another but there all still available for download and work fine.
:ignition: :reason: :refill: :re: :rebirth: :PUF_figure: :nektar: :mac: :EiEPro: :Alesis Mk2:
Follow Me @ https://twitch.tv/buskinbills

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jan 2021

I'm surprised some people are encountering this for the first time only recently with AirRaid Audio...or perhaps people just haven't noticed other REs of theirs that have previously been removed from the shop, such as u-he, Cakewalk, etc. Also previous versions of REs replaced by newer, separate versions, for example the first C.R.A.P.R.E. and ABL2. Or REs that make a special appearance once a year, like MC-1 More Cowbell :) All of which remain in your account, available to be downloaded and synced.

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 10 Jan 2021

joeyluck wrote:
10 Jan 2021
...such as u-he, Cakewalk, etc...
Wasn't this YEARS ago? And then there were no such instances for YEARS. Lots of new people here, myself included :)
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jan 2021

antic604 wrote:
10 Jan 2021
joeyluck wrote:
10 Jan 2021
...such as u-he, Cakewalk, etc...
Wasn't this YEARS ago? And then there were no such instances for YEARS. Lots of new people here, myself included :)
Yes, but MC-1 is recent and every year I believe it appears and disappears on April 1. There's a slew of others, but I'm not sure the dates in which they were removed from the shop. I'm rarely checking the pages of REs I own and not so often viewing their individual listings in my account. I'm usually hitting 'sync all' from the first page.

For instance, I just now found out that iZotope's Ozone Maximizer RE (which I own) is no longer in the shop. I couldn't tell you how long ago it was removed...

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jan 2021

antic604 wrote:
10 Jan 2021
joeyluck wrote:
10 Jan 2021
...such as u-he, Cakewalk, etc...
Wasn't this YEARS ago? And then there were no such instances for YEARS. Lots of new people here, myself included :)
You're new? This is a new account for you, but I'm pretty sure you have been on this forum for at least a couple of years. Anyway, yes, I would guess that this topic might be a concern to new users. it's a fair question for those who can't figure out how to use the search function. ha ha ha (obligatory wink after snarky comment) ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 11 Jan 2021

challism wrote:
10 Jan 2021
You're new? This is a new account for you, but I'm pretty sure you have been on this forum for at least a couple of years...
I first subscribed here in late 2017, which I think still qualifies as "new"?

I don't recall in that time any controversy regarding new missing REs, but obviously I don't ready everything.
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
Oquasec
Posts: 2833
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 11 Jan 2021

I really fw the RE policy.
However pulling the RE from the shop for wahtever reason does raise some questions.
---
Elements splitter popped off there even though I can still use the plug.
I'm guessing that platform allows the plugins to stick in there easily.

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 11 Jan 2021

Oquasec wrote:
11 Jan 2021
Elements splitter popped off there even though I can still use the plug.
I'm guessing that platform allows the plugins to stick in there easily.
That was supposed to be one of the advantages of RE platform - even if the dev is no longer active, devices will stay available and will actually be updated to new OS versions (or new OS-es altogether, if e.g. Reason was to run on Linux in the future) via the updates to the API on which they run, as the REs are platform & OS agnostic.

So that's fantastic, at long as Reason Studios is alive :)
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 11 Jan 2021

I can't understand why any developer would pull a finished product from the shop. Even if they aren't interested in developing more REs in the future, they should just leave their existing REs in the shop. The RE could always bring in a little extra money, even if sales are slow. It seems like such a waste to pull them out. It's one thing if there are loads of bugs in the REs and the dev doesn't want to deal with them.I could understand their decision to pull the REs out, in that case. But it seems that in many cases the REs are OK and the dev pulls them just because they don't want to pursue REs anymore. Kind of weird, if you ask me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

seqoi
Posts: 411
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 13 Jan 2021

challism wrote:
11 Jan 2021
I can't understand why any developer would pull a finished product from the shop. Even if they aren't interested in developing more REs in the future, they should just leave their existing REs in the shop. The RE could always bring in a little extra money, even if sales are slow. It seems like such a waste to pull them out. It's one thing if there are loads of bugs in the REs and the dev doesn't want to deal with them.I could understand their decision to pull the REs out, in that case. But it seems that in many cases the REs are OK and the dev pulls them just because they don't want to pursue REs anymore. Kind of weird, if you ask me.
It's not weird. It's called business goals and plans.

Sometimes when product is removed it's about licensing, sometimes it's about company changing future goals. Reasons can vary.

Perhaps a company decided not to develop RE but VST instead. Believe it or not VST, and contrary to the popular belief here: VST is superior to RE when it comes to possibilites and potential sale figures.

If RE did not met their expectations in sales perhaps they would want to avoid from selling it, so that new users can focus on VST instead which will be company main focus on future development and updates. Perhaps they don't want to pay fees for selling in other stores. etc.etc.

You probably never had software company so you are not aware on how much of company resources goes into just one product support. Imagine you have one RE in the shop, which is generating $18 dollars per sale. Now imagine you sell that product one time each month. Sure you may think it's easy money, but then add countless emails to which company need to respond like feature request, glitches or bugs + other things (people are weird sometimes) so it's probably better for a company to just stop selling it and focus on what is active and bring more money.

Just in case anyone is confused - selling plugins in any format is not for making friends, it's for profit. It's business.

User avatar
buddard
RE Developer
Posts: 898
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 13 Jan 2021

challism wrote:
11 Jan 2021
I can't understand why any developer would pull a finished product from the shop. Even if they aren't interested in developing more REs in the future, they should just leave their existing REs in the shop. The RE could always bring in a little extra money, even if sales are slow. It seems like such a waste to pull them out. It's one thing if there are loads of bugs in the REs and the dev doesn't want to deal with them.I could understand their decision to pull the REs out, in that case. But it seems that in many cases the REs are OK and the dev pulls them just because they don't want to pursue REs anymore. Kind of weird, if you ask me.
I think the most common reason is if the costs start outweighing the benefits.

Running a company means having some overhead costs, you need to file regular VAT reports and tax returns, provide annual reports etc. If you have near 0 sales and/or are planning to do something else, like taking another employment or starting another business, you may prefer or even be required (for example if you need to receive unemployment benefits) to shut down your company or at least "put it in hibernation". And if you don't have an active company, then you can't keep selling REs...

User avatar
Adabler
Posts: 401
Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Oslo

Post 13 Jan 2021

Seems relevant to this thread:
bye alist.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
:reason: 11 on Win10

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 1157
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 13 Jan 2021

Adabler wrote:
13 Jan 2021
Seems relevant to this thread:
bye alist.png
Final "sale", so those could become either stock or part of suite, I suppose.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

Discarded
Posts: 1
Joined: 31 Dec 2020

Post Yesterday

I can't decide if I should bite the bullet with the pack. I'm enjoying the power chord trial enough to consider getting it and at that rate I might as well get them all.

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post Yesterday

I understand how business works (I'm currently working on my MBA). I guess I should have clarified I don't understand why an ACTIVE developer would remove a completed product from the shop (other than being outdated, too buggy, etc). It's just one more potential source of income, and the bulk amount of work has already been done creating the product (I would assume). Having many streams of income is important, and I don't see how customer service costs would outweigh potential sales; sales and customer service numbers should be somewhat proportional. If they are still conducting/pursuing business in the plugin arena, I can't understand removing finished products from the Reason shop, even if they aren't interested in REs anymore. It doesn't make sense to me, really, IF they are still in the plugin business.

Now if a business decided to close shop or change directions, entirely, I completely understand the reasons for removing products from the shop.
seqoi wrote:
13 Jan 2021
It's not weird. It's called business goals and plans.

Sometimes when product is removed it's about licensing, sometimes it's about company changing future goals. Reasons can vary.

Perhaps a company decided not to develop RE but VST instead. Believe it or not VST, and contrary to the popular belief here: VST is superior to RE when it comes to possibilites and potential sale figures.

If RE did not met their expectations in sales perhaps they would want to avoid from selling it, so that new users can focus on VST instead which will be company main focus on future development and updates. Perhaps they don't want to pay fees for selling in other stores. etc.etc.

You probably never had software company so you are not aware on how much of company resources goes into just one product support. Imagine you have one RE in the shop, which is generating $18 dollars per sale. Now imagine you sell that product one time each month. Sure you may think it's easy money, but then add countless emails to which company need to respond like feature request, glitches or bugs + other things (people are weird sometimes) so it's probably better for a company to just stop selling it and focus on what is active and bring more money.

Just in case anyone is confused - selling plugins in any format is not for making friends, it's for profit. It's business.
buddard wrote:
13 Jan 2021

I think the most common reason is if the costs start outweighing the benefits.

Running a company means having some overhead costs, you need to file regular VAT reports and tax returns, provide annual reports etc. If you have near 0 sales and/or are planning to do something else, like taking another employment or starting another business, you may prefer or even be required (for example if you need to receive unemployment benefits) to shut down your company or at least "put it in hibernation". And if you don't have an active company, then you can't keep selling REs...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

seqoi
Posts: 411
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post Today

challism wrote:
Yesterday
I understand how business works (I'm currently working on my MBA). I guess I should have clarified I don't understand why an ACTIVE developer would remove a completed product from the shop (other than being outdated, too buggy, etc).
You are right that would be weird.

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post Today

seqoi wrote:
Today
challism wrote:
Yesterday
I understand how business works (I'm currently working on my MBA). I guess I should have clarified I don't understand why an ACTIVE developer would remove a completed product from the shop (other than being outdated, too buggy, etc).
You are right that would be weird.
Right:? But it does seem to happen, occasionally. I can't think of examples outside of U-he, but it seems like something that has happened more than once. The U Jam stuff doesn't count, because they replaced them with new products. Can anybody think of any other products that have been removed by active developers? (Crapre by Peff might count? MoreCowbell by Robotic Bean? Although those were more meant to be jokes).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 5880
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post Today

challism wrote:
Today
seqoi wrote:
Today


You are right that would be weird.
Right:? But it does seem to happen, occasionally. I can't think of examples outside of U-he, but it seems like something that has happened more than once. The U Jam stuff doesn't count, because they replaced them with new products. Can anybody think of any other products that have been removed by active developers? (Crapre by Peff might count? MoreCowbell by Robotic Bean? Although those were more meant to be jokes).
Tho two free Haas REs. Appeared for a day or two then disappeared again.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post Today

I just read that Ozone Maximizer is gone, too. Icon not showing up in my account. Now that is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Izotope is still in business, so why remove Maximizer? Is it that outdated?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 2233
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post Today

jam-s wrote:
13 Jan 2021
Adabler wrote:
13 Jan 2021
Seems relevant to this thread:
bye alist.png
Final "sale", so those could become either stock or part of suite, I suppose.
I would guess if they are being discontinued (as the ad says), they won't be part of Suite or stock devices. I would guess they are being discontinued, and as the ad says, this is "your very last last chance to pick them up."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
antic604
Posts: 514
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post Today

challism wrote:
Today
the ad says, this is "your very last last chance to pick them up."
Yes, you won't have to "pick them up" as they will be included in Reason :P

My guess is they're gonna pack it full with "new" devices, to sweeten up the fact that other than high-res GUI they're not adding anything else, but still want us to pay for it :)
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: BRIGGS, CommonCrawl [Bot], friday, Google [Bot], miyaru, PhillipOrdonez, Trendiction [Bot] and 4 guests