Tribute Wavetable Synthesizer by Speo Music now in the shop!

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Speo
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Post 13 Dec 2020

dusan.cani wrote:
12 Dec 2020
Hello Speo...
Thanks for writing this out, I'm honestly glad to hear all opinions. I'm also aware some of the design choices I made are potentially controversial or confusing. Thanks joeyluck for clearing up the confusion and backing the design! I did make a note to include arrows to select the next/previous filter type right on the display in version 1.1.

Thanks to everyone trying out the synth, I really appreciate it!

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geronimo
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Post 13 Dec 2020

dusan.cani wrote:
12 Dec 2020
It's somehow complicated to set the LFO. I was messing with "mods" but I didn't figured out how to get simple LFO. There are a couple of unfamiliar controls which I didn't understand how they work (The bottom area of "mods" display is very confusing).
Agreed with this request _

On the other hand, the Knobs seem to me very original and do not pose a problem to me.

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antic604
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Post 13 Dec 2020

dusan.cani wrote:
12 Dec 2020
The UI design is horrible and a I have some difficulties with UI workflow also.

The overall aesthetic design feels very cheap an ugly for me. The blurry backround with horrible color combination (wood brown + azure blue) is really distracting for me. The overal design feels like amateur render, sorry. UI aesthetic design should invite the user to touch the knobs, faders, buttons...
Thanks for writing this, so I didn't have to... :oops:

Combination of wood, brushed steel and plasma knobs barely works in sci-fi and completely falls apart if those elements are made of plastic, like they seem to be here.

No matter how great it sounds - which I'm sure it does! - I wouldn't stand seeing it in my rack. Yet again I've no idea how Reason Studios are letting through the acceptance proces devices that look completely out of place and don't follow - agreed? formalised? mandatory? - design guidelines :(
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

sdst
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Post 13 Dec 2020

that matrix and envelope is one of the best looking in REs, look good

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MrFigg
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Sounds great. And I’m really glad to see Speo back.
The GUI however is reminiscent of DNALabs and Aeon GUIs and that unfortunately puts me off considerably. Shame really as it does sound good.
丰2ॐ

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Loque
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Post 13 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Combination of wood, brushed steel ...
Yep, Moog must be wrong...
Image


And Waldorf too...That awfull blue LEDs...
Image

And dont forget Korg...Especially that neon blue is a big fail...
Image
Image

Yea, taste is always a matter of taste, same in sound. The sound of original TB303 is still unbeaten and created a area, but all those great "artists" didnt liked it. Maybe because of the cheap brushed metal?
Image

Nobody forces you to like the Tribute synth, the sound nor the look. I like both.
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Loque wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Nobody forces you to like the Tribute synth, the sound nor the look. I like both.
Not sure anyone feels forced to like it, either the sound or look. I only like the sound. Great it works for you though.
丰2ॐ

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dusan.cani
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Post 13 Dec 2020

joeyluck wrote:
12 Dec 2020
dusan.cani wrote:
12 Dec 2020
Regarding the UI workflow. Please, no nested context menu for filter selection ! This is a huge workflow killer ! Digging through context menu items and searching through sublevel items is very tiresome. I would put all filters directly on the first context menu with group separation marker. And buttons up/down beside the filter name on the display to be able to select filter types also that way.
I don't understand this request. This would be messy. They are organized by category and it helps workflow... We went years without REs having submenus and we celebrated when they were finally integrated because it's madness without them. There's over 50 filter types! You want to browse and click through those in one giant list?
Nested context menus should be avoided. When I am immersed into the sound design process I want to have the controls accessible directly on the panel as much as possible. For me, choosing filter type is very frequent step while designing a sound. Every time I have to dig into to nested context menu and find particular filter type my flow is interrupted and I am distracted.

Look at this screenshot:

submenu.jpg

I have "LP | HP 24" filter type selected. Can you distinguish which category of filter type it belongs to ? I can't. I have to open the context menu and browse through submenu levels to find out that this filter type belongs to the "Notch" category.

I have suggestion how this could be solved to bring much more comfortable user experience:

displays.jpg

Make the bottom part of the synth with 3 displays (ENV, MOD, FILTER) taller. For the FILTER display, place on the bottom of filter curve the buttons for filter category with labels: "LP", "BP", "HP", "Notch", "Comb", "Expressive". Filter types from "Multi Bandpass" category move to "BP" category and filters from "Multi Notch" category move to "Notch" category.

By this design update the filter category would be accessible directly on the panel. You would also directly see which category is actually set and click on the filter name would open context menu without nested sublevels.

This design update has second advantage - it would allow to see much more modulation matrix items, so it minimizes the use of scrollbar on MOD display.
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dusan.cani
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Speo wrote:
13 Dec 2020
I did make a note to include arrows to select the next/previous filter type right on the display in version 1.1.
Great. This would improve the usability, Thanks.

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dusan.cani
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Post 13 Dec 2020

I forgot to add - with the filter category buttons you would be able also to switch between filter category. Not only switch between the filter type. And each filter category would remember the filter type you set.

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FiatLux
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Loque wrote:
13 Dec 2020
antic604 wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Combination of wood, brushed steel ...
Yep, Moog must be wrong...
Image

And Waldorf too...That awfull blue LEDs...
Image

And dont forget Korg...Especially that neon blue is a big fail...
Image
Image

Yea, taste is always a matter of taste, same in sound. The sound of original TB303 is still unbeaten and created a area, but all those great "artists" didnt liked it. Maybe because of the cheap brushed metal?
Image

Nobody forces you to like the Tribute synth, the sound nor the look. I like both.
Those synths look great. Tribute...not so much.
I get what Speo was going for, he just didn't quite hit the mark.
Example...the wood only looks reminiscent of wood. The metal only looks reminiscent of metal.
It looks like someone with only limited experience in 3D did the shaders.
Would have been better to give it to a proper 3d artist/designer.
Like the sound and layout, I think it just needs to be re-skinned to give it the love it deserves.

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Speo
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Post 13 Dec 2020

FiatLux wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Those synths look great. Tribute...not so much.
I get what Speo was going for, he just didn't quite hit the mark.
Example...the wood only looks reminiscent of wood. The metal only looks reminiscent of metal.
It looks like someone with only limited experience in 3D did the shaders.
Would have been better to give it to a proper 3d artist/designer.
Like the sound and layout, I think it just needs to be re-skinned to give it the love it deserves.
I appreciate Loque bringing out the big guns proving metal/wood/plastic works. The quote is fair however. I didn't have the means to hire anybody to do anything on Tribute. You might have guessed making REs is not my fulltime job. Obviously I have limited experience in 3D. But honestly, learning 3D software and the filter math were probably my favorite parts of making Tribute. And I'm fond of both the GUI and the filters, though there's always room to learn, always ways to improve.

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FiatLux
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Speo wrote:
13 Dec 2020
FiatLux wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Those synths look great. Tribute...not so much.
I get what Speo was going for, he just didn't quite hit the mark.
Example...the wood only looks reminiscent of wood. The metal only looks reminiscent of metal.
It looks like someone with only limited experience in 3D did the shaders.
Would have been better to give it to a proper 3d artist/designer.
Like the sound and layout, I think it just needs to be re-skinned to give it the love it deserves.
I appreciate Loque bringing out the big guns proving metal/wood/plastic works. The quote is fair however. I didn't have the means to hire anybody to do anything on Tribute. You might have guessed making REs is not my fulltime job. Obviously I have limited experience in 3D. But honestly, learning 3D software and the filter math were probably my favorite parts of making Tribute. And I'm fond of both the GUI and the filters, though there's always room to learn, always ways to improve.
Hey Speo,
Even though I am not loving the interface, I will still be purchasing.
It is a tremendous amount of work and effort that fo in to making an RE,
So don't be discouraged by the criticism.
Everyone has their own ideas of what could help to create a better product.
Good lick and congratulations on another RE release.

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antic604
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Loque wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Nobody forces you to like the Tribute synth, the sound nor the look.
Thank you. I had no idea! ;)
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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dusan.cani
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Hey Speo !

In relation to the suggested filter category buttons the wonderful sound design idea came to my mind:

Filter Blend

filter-update.jpg

Explanation of the picture:

Individual filter category stores the all filter settings independently - filter type, cutoff, reso, osc routing, spread, mix and keytracking. Clicking on the corresponding filter category button will enter into the specific filter and all its values would by reflected by controls. Currently selected filter category button is highlighted.

"Blend " knob would allow to morph between the current filters set in the individual filter categories. Two modes of morph would be available - "abrupt" which would jump from one filter to another immediately and "smooth" which would apply smooth transition. This mode could be choosed by "smooth" button as picture shows. When using "Blend" knob, the position of the realtime transition would be indicated by small moving circle or some differetly shaped marker. The order of the individual filter category buttons could be rearranged by drag and drop so different order of filter morph sequence could be obtained.

Since your filters sound very good and they offer a huge selection of different tasty shapes, the "Filter Blend" could bring another awesome sound design ability to this synth. I will guarantee you that this feature would be so much fun with satisfying results :)
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buddard
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Post 13 Dec 2020

dusan.cani wrote:
13 Dec 2020
I have "LP | HP 24" filter type selected. Can you distinguish which category of filter type it belongs to ? I can't. I have to open the context menu and browse through submenu levels to find out that this filter type belongs to the "Notch" category.
Hmm, not all popup menus behave like this...
I think that Speo might have overlooked setting the "selected" popup_def property (or set it incorrectly) when the popup is built in the gesture callback.
If "selected" is set correctly, then the corresponding sub menu will be in focus from the beginning when you click.
Note that this is different from the "checked" attributes, which will add a check mark to one or more menu items, but without affecting the focus (obviously, since more than one item can be checked). You need a combination of both "selected" and "checked" to make the popups more useable.

If this is implemented correctly, the nested popup menu should be much more user friendly!

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Boombastix
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Post 13 Dec 2020

buddard wrote:
13 Dec 2020
dusan.cani wrote:
13 Dec 2020
I have "LP | HP 24" filter type selected. Can you distinguish which category of filter type it belongs to ? I can't. I have to open the context menu and browse through submenu levels to find out that this filter type belongs to the "Notch" category.
Hmm, not all popup menus behave like this...
I think that Speo might have overlooked setting the "selected" popup_def property (or set it incorrectly) when the popup is built in the gesture callback.
If "selected" is set correctly, then the corresponding sub menu will be in focus from the beginning when you click.
Note that this is different from the "checked" attributes, which will add a check mark to one or more menu items, but without affecting the focus (obviously, since more than one item can be checked). You need a combination of both "selected" and "checked" to make the popups more useable.

If this is implemented correctly, the nested popup menu should be much more user friendly!
I really prefer to also have two arrows "next" and "previous" so you can just step through the selections. It helps a lot when exploring different possibilities for sound design. Menu diving can drive you away, especially when there is no marker showing in the top menu indicating what submenu is used.
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Auryn
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Post 13 Dec 2020

I've been playing around with this a bit and it certainly does pack a mean growl. The one thing I don't like is the way the wavetable loading is implemented. I don't know the precise terminology for this, but there is this thing that Tribute does that Expanse also does but Europa and Oberon don't do. When you load a wavetable with a lot of inharmonic content (i.e. drum loop) Tribute will sort of "harmonize" or harmonically rectify the sound so that even a drum loop or vinyl crackles will sound 'sawtoothy' when you scroll them. I would have preferred if it had retained the inharmonic content like europa and oberon do, because that is what gives a sound a part of it's character.
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moneykube
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Post 13 Dec 2020

Nothing could be more true than your words... fripp (sort of)

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Speo
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Post 14 Dec 2020

FiatLux wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Hey Speo,
Even though I am not loving the interface, I will still be purchasing.
It is a tremendous amount of work and effort that fo in to making an RE,
So don't be discouraged by the criticism.
Everyone has their own ideas of what could help to create a better product.
Good lick and congratulations on another RE release.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate you saying that. I am honestly grateful for all the feedback, and I am taking notes!
Auryn wrote:
13 Dec 2020
I've been playing around with this a bit and it certainly does pack a mean growl. The one thing I don't like is the way the wavetable loading is implemented. I don't know the precise terminology for this, but there is this thing that Tribute does that Expanse also does but Europa and Oberon don't do. When you load a wavetable with a lot of inharmonic content (i.e. drum loop) Tribute will sort of "harmonize" or harmonically rectify the sound so that even a drum loop or vinyl crackles will sound 'sawtoothy' when you scroll them. I would have preferred if it had retained the inharmonic content like europa and oberon do, because that is what gives a sound a part of it's character.
Thanks for trying out the synth! There's lots of intricate ways to turn an audio file into a wavetable, but I didn't go to the trouble of implementing any of them. Tribute will just cut the file into chunks of 2048 starting at the first non-zero sample. This way, Tribute will load tables made for and with Serum just fine. So it's really more designed to load audio files that were intended to be wavetables. You can still get cool results loading any file, but as you say, it won't respect the sound's character.
buddard wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Hmm, not all popup menus behave like this...
I think that Speo might have overlooked setting the "selected" popup_def property (or set it incorrectly) when the popup is built in the gesture callback.
If "selected" is set correctly, then the corresponding sub menu will be in focus from the beginning when you click.
Note that this is different from the "checked" attributes, which will add a check mark to one or more menu items, but without affecting the focus (obviously, since more than one item can be checked). You need a combination of both "selected" and "checked" to make the popups more useable.

If this is implemented correctly, the nested popup menu should be much more user friendly!
I have indeed overlooked the "selected" popup_def property and will rectify this in version 1.1. Thanks so much for pointing this out, should have read the docs more carefully.
dusan.cani wrote:
13 Dec 2020
Hey Speo !

In relation to the suggested filter category buttons the wonderful sound design idea came to my mind:

Filter Blend
I appreciate you sharing and even illustrating this idea! It does look cool. Blending filters isn't so straight-forward, there's a phase response to worry about (which I have ignored for the mix setting in Tribute by the way, try mixing in a 96db sloped filter, see what happens). The results can still be cool, just not always as expected. Sorry to say that new filter functionality is not high on the priority list right now.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 14 Dec 2020

Trying now - the audio demo sounded really interesting so looking forward to giving it a whirl!

Graphically I think it looks kinda cool - probably the only thing that lets it down a bit is the wood texture. A finer grain/more realistic looking texture would make the smooth/brushed metal sit a lot better IMO but ultimately, I'm more interested in how it sounds :)

**Just to expand on this, having given it a really quick go on the couch. Speo mate this is great <3 Been looking for something that can do really aggressive, crazy basses (Squiddim style!) and this fits the bill. Excellent work.

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Speo
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Post 14 Dec 2020

chimp_spanner wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Trying now - the audio demo sounded really interesting so looking forward to giving it a whirl!

Graphically I think it looks kinda cool - probably the only thing that lets it down a bit is the wood texture. A finer grain/more realistic looking texture would make the smooth/brushed metal sit a lot better IMO but ultimately, I'm more interested in how it sounds :)

**Just to expand on this, having given it a really quick go on the couch. Speo mate this is great <3 Been looking for something that can do really aggressive, crazy basses (Squiddim style!) and this fits the bill. Excellent work.
Super happy to hear you're getting crazy basses out of Tribute, that's mostly what I made it for! It's so cool to know Tribute's being put to good use.

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PinkSlime
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Post 14 Dec 2020

I really like the new synth. Soundwise and workflow wise the envelopes are very handy. I can also work with the mod window, once I got the hang of it. The only point that was a very minor setback was the workaround in order to have sustain. I honestly think that an optional sustain point on the envelope would be faster, more handy and would not occupy two envelopes and one mod slot to implement.

Overall I am really happy to have bought the synth as I can get fast results with snappy envelopes for bass and pluck sounds. I am glad it is not burdened with an FX chain and that the workflow is focused on the oscillation and filtering. Congratulations once more for this release!

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Speo
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Post 14 Dec 2020

PinkSlime wrote:
14 Dec 2020
I really like the new synth. Soundwise and workflow wise the envelopes are very handy. I can also work with the mod window, once I got the hang of it. The only point that was a very minor setback was the workaround in order to have sustain. I honestly think that an optional sustain point on the envelope would be faster, more handy and would not occupy two envelopes and one mod slot to implement.

Overall I am really happy to have bought the synth as I can get fast results with snappy envelopes for bass and pluck sounds. I am glad it is not burdened with an FX chain and that the workflow is focused on the oscillation and filtering. Congratulations once more for this release!
Thanks for the reassurance that omitting an FX chain was the right call. Also great to hear that the envelopes are working for you! Point taken about the sustain. I do think it's a cool thing to be able to setup a loop shape that is sustained rather than only being able to sustain a constant value. But sustaining at a single point is not at all straight-forward right now, for sure.

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dusan.cani
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Post 14 Dec 2020

Hi again,

I noticed some undesired behaviour with Macro controls. If I set macro for "a/d" parameter and I am controlling cutoff by this envelope, the random cuts in the sound appear while messing with macro:

- This is the proper clean sound of direct "a/d" automation.

tribute-attack.mp3


- This has the cuts when macro control is automated

tribute-attack-macro-cuts.mp3

Source project here:
tribute-attack-macro.zip
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