new Reason Studios Player: Pattern Mutator

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TrueStory
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Sep 2020

Post 06 Dec 2020

zoidkirb wrote:
04 Dec 2020
TrueStory wrote:
03 Dec 2020
Core features? Usefulness? etc.

I didn't try the demo yet but it looks pretty cool from the few videos I saw. One thing that cracks me up are the music theory elitists in the youtube comments who seem upset about "AI making music" yet many of these elitists are still in the same position as the rest of us producers and beat makers.
Yeah, those snobs can be annoying. The thing is: All the music theory we have, scales, chords, rules for harmony and writing arpeggios etc etc are shortcuts invented by someone else that make it easier for us to create and sculpt musical ideas.

Midi tools like this are just an extension of the same concept IMO. A human still has to guide , choose, edit and arrange whatever melodies this thing can spit out.

I'd like to see one of those guys press one button and hey presto there's a 100% competed track right there.
It's an amazing time for any aspiring musician to jump into the game and start composing. Music Theory always helps though ultimately it's like you said. A human still has to guide the momentum and make decisions.

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TrueStory
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Post 06 Dec 2020

buddard wrote:
05 Dec 2020
tobypearce wrote:
05 Dec 2020
Like others I'd like to be able to mutate midi that's already in the sequencer. I understand that it is not straightforward to get midi from the sequencer in the player. But on page one of this thread it looked like someone had made this work using some kind of CV RE. Was I reading this right, and if so what's the RE I need?
You don't need any additional RE for this, since Players always receive MIDI from their instrument track.
So if you want to mutate a pattern clip, copy it to the track of the instrument that Pattern Mutator is connected to.
Make sure that the pattern length on Mutator matches the length of the clip. (You can test it by playing back the clip and ensuring that Mutator's playhead does exactly one lap in the display)
Then enable record on Mutator and start playback on Reason's main transport.
Note that the recording will be quantized to the rate set on Pattern Mutator.
Now this is what I've been waiting to hear. There should a video demonstrating this too for those who don't know.

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challism
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Post 06 Dec 2020

Here's something you can try with Pattern Mutator... load in an instance of PatMut and record a sequence. Then move it to another instrument (drag it and use SHIFT key -Windows- to enable moving the player to another instrument. Then start trying different mutations on the different instrument. Repeat!

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miyaru
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Post 06 Dec 2020

I can use the trail version now for a few hours, and I must say impressive. But: if you give it shit, mutator gives you shit back - meaning you have to feed it with decent sequences and chords. It is not an instant wonderbox or talentbox.

I do like it, but have to think if it is worth the € 74 for me though.

It is usable without manual, just play around and notice what everything does, and it is a lot of fun doing so.

Will it be in Reason 12 (Suite)? I don't know, if you like it and can afford it buy it, otherwise wait 'till 12 LOL.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 06 Dec 2020

There is one major element that keeps me from liking that kind of tool: the seed for the mutations is beyond my reach, locked away. The results will never be "me".

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challism
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Post 06 Dec 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Dec 2020
There is one major element that keeps me from liking that kind of tool: the seed for the mutations is beyond my reach, locked away. The results will never be "me".
Well, you can use it to spawn ideas. You can "send to track" and move the notes around or cut what you don't like. So you *can* make it sound like you.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 06 Dec 2020

challism wrote:
06 Dec 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Dec 2020
There is one major element that keeps me from liking that kind of tool: the seed for the mutations is beyond my reach, locked away. The results will never be "me".
Well, you can use it to spawn ideas. You can "send to track" and move the notes around or cut what you don't like. So you *can* make it sound like you.
It would be nice if I could lock parts of my ideas (timing, note length, etc) separately from 0 to 100% (to the magic seed sauce), like a groove mixer. So you push it a bit, and if you don't like it you bring it back down. Then you lock another element, the timing between notes for example, and you try again. If you bring all the faders down to 0% you get your originel idea. This player is close to what I want, but I'll wait for the next 'version'.

ravasb
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 07 Dec 2020

This is fine as a scratch pad for testing ideas and for a different price I would get it, but for that much money and no intro it just does not do enough. It is very clunky to use for me in a full track. MIDI import would help a lot, for example. I use Ableton a lot and max4live has some brilliant randomizers that have been more than worth the money and effort.

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antic604
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Post 21 Dec 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Dec 2020
There is one major element that keeps me from liking that kind of tool: the seed for the mutations is beyond my reach, locked away. The results will never be "me".
It's always "you" in the end, though.

Ultimately it is YOU who decides whether or not given variation represents your style, mood, idea; whether it fits the track you're making or not. If it's not "you", then by the same token it's not you when you get inspired by other music, a view you saw, a discussion you had, a book you've read, which would be kind of ridiculous, right? ;)
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
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antic604
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Post 21 Dec 2020

So, 2-3 weeks later and at a reduced price - is it worth getting?
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DougalDarkly
Posts: 184
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 21 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2020
So, 2-3 weeks later and at a reduced price - is it worth getting?
Asking myself the same question - along with 'can I wait until May Madness and maybe get it for half price?'...

I should just trial it and get it over with I guess! :puf_smile:

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MrFigg
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Post 21 Dec 2020

DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Dec 2020
antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2020
So, 2-3 weeks later and at a reduced price - is it worth getting?
Asking myself the same question - along with 'can I wait until May Madness and maybe get it for half price?'...

I should just trial it and get it over with I guess! :puf_smile:
Wait until Black Friday. :)
丰2ॐ

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bxbrkrz
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Post 21 Dec 2020

antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Dec 2020
There is one major element that keeps me from liking that kind of tool: the seed for the mutations is beyond my reach, locked away. The results will never be "me".
It's always "you" in the end, though.

Ultimately it is YOU who decides whether or not given variation represents your style, mood, idea; whether it fits the track you're making or not. If it's not "you", then by the same token it's not you when you get inspired by other music, a view you saw, a discussion you had, a book you've read, which would be kind of ridiculous, right? ;)
I decided I'll wait for the next evolution of the concept from the dev. I am not against it, it is not ridiculous, but it's not for me. The examples you provided are perfect. When you decide to listen to a track, start a conversation, or replying on a forum you decide the actions, actions that could evolve into a little seed, then, maybe, to a song. You could decide not to get a tool, until you get what you want. It's all psychological. Like what kind of colors a Player in Reason should be. All black, no? All white, yes? Rainbow, maybe?
Freedom of the mind inspires absolute inspiration :puf_smile:

Mutator is a great tool. Buy it.

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demt
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Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 21 Dec 2020

Hmm suddenly I filled level1 subscribe with various sequencres mutaters and other pattern manglers to find mucking around with the arpegiater on my keyboard produced superior results .Now if only I could root that into....
....
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Billy
Posts: 789
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 21 Dec 2020

buddard wrote:
05 Dec 2020
tobypearce wrote:
05 Dec 2020
Like others I'd like to be able to mutate midi that's already in the sequencer. I understand that it is not straightforward to get midi from the sequencer in the player. But on page one of this thread it looked like someone had made this work using some kind of CV RE. Was I reading this right, and if so what's the RE I need?
You don't need any additional RE for this, since Players always receive MIDI from their instrument track.
So if you want to mutate a pattern clip, copy it to the track of the instrument that Pattern Mutator is connected to.
Make sure that the pattern length on Mutator matches the length of the clip. (You can test it by playing back the clip and ensuring that Mutator's playhead does exactly one lap in the display)
Then enable record on Mutator and start playback on Reason's main transport.
Note that the recording will be quantized to the rate set on Pattern Mutator.
This is handy to know, but is there any way to create drag'n drop midi support or a load feature within the confines of the current sdk
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buddard
RE Developer
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Location: Stockholm

Post 21 Dec 2020

Billy wrote:
21 Dec 2020
buddard wrote:
05 Dec 2020


You don't need any additional RE for this, since Players always receive MIDI from their instrument track.
So if you want to mutate a pattern clip, copy it to the track of the instrument that Pattern Mutator is connected to.
Make sure that the pattern length on Mutator matches the length of the clip. (You can test it by playing back the clip and ensuring that Mutator's playhead does exactly one lap in the display)
Then enable record on Mutator and start playback on Reason's main transport.
Note that the recording will be quantized to the rate set on Pattern Mutator.
This is handy to know, but is there any way to create drag'n drop midi support or a load feature within the confines of the current sdk
Nope.

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Billy
Posts: 789
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 22 Dec 2020

buddard wrote:
21 Dec 2020
Billy wrote:
21 Dec 2020


This is handy to know, but is there any way to create drag'n drop midi support or a load feature within the confines of the current sdk
Nope.
What about already swung melodies, anyway to keep their timing/feel. I'm guessing if I set 16th and record a melody line it's going to be quantised to the grid.
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buddard
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Post 22 Dec 2020

Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020
buddard wrote:
21 Dec 2020


Nope.
What about already swung melodies, anyway to keep their timing/feel. I'm guessing if I set 16th and record a melody line it's going to be quantised to the grid.
Yes, Mutator is a step based sequencer, so all patterns are quantized. You’ll have to use the built-in shuffle control to add swing during playback.

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antic604
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Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 22 Dec 2020

I wonder about the mutation algorithm - is it fully random (say, like QNG), or is it based on some pre-made templates and the algorithm maps the original sequence onto them and makes variations (a bit like Drum Map)?

Ive not tried the Player myself yet, but everything I've heard sounds very usable unlike QNG that can be pretty hit or miss (but also very brilliant when it hits just right).
Music tech enthusiast. DAW, VST & hardware hoarder :D
My "music" - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Billy
Posts: 789
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Post 22 Dec 2020

buddard wrote:
22 Dec 2020
Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020


What about already swung melodies, anyway to keep their timing/feel. I'm guessing if I set 16th and record a melody line it's going to be quantised to the grid.
Yes, Mutator is a step based sequencer, so all patterns are quantized. You’ll have to use the built-in shuffle control to add swing during playback.
Thanks you are really helpful answering questions so quickly.

Why was the steps limited to 99? I like working in 8 bar phrases and by reckoning 99 steps at 16th is about 6 bars.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 22 Dec 2020

Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020
buddard wrote:
22 Dec 2020


Yes, Mutator is a step based sequencer, so all patterns are quantized. You’ll have to use the built-in shuffle control to add swing during playback.
Thanks you are really helpful answering questions so quickly.

Why was the steps limited to 99? I like working in 8 bar phrases and by reckoning 99 steps at 16th is about 6 bars.
Yes, I'm missing 128 steps.

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Billy
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Post 22 Dec 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
22 Dec 2020
Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020


Thanks you are really helpful answering questions so quickly.

Why was the steps limited to 99? I like working in 8 bar phrases and by reckoning 99 steps at 16th is about 6 bars.
Yes, I'm missing 128 steps.
How are you finding the mutation? I take it you have mutator?

I'm thinking about it but I'm not sure I will get what I want from it.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 22 Dec 2020

Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
22 Dec 2020


Yes, I'm missing 128 steps.
How are you finding the mutation? I take it you have mutator?

I'm thinking about it but I'm not sure I will get what I want from it.
I like it, however I've not had much time to play with it. But it is a nice tool to have and should help writing music faster; I got a client that I will need a lot of songs done quickly for and that was the motivation for me to get it. The results are usable and you can quickly get a couple of nice variations. Trial it and figure out if it is for you or not. It's the only way.

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Billy
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Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 22 Dec 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
22 Dec 2020
Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020


How are you finding the mutation? I take it you have mutator?

I'm thinking about it but I'm not sure I will get what I want from it.
I like it, however I've not had much time to play with it. But it is a nice tool to have and should help writing music faster; I got a client that I will need a lot of songs done quickly for and that was the motivation for me to get it. The results are usable and you can quickly get a couple of nice variations. Trial it and figure out if it is for you or not. It's the only way.
Would be interested to know how you a using it, I'm assuming it's going to need to be part of a stack to get a good initial idea going.
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PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1590
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 22 Dec 2020

Billy wrote:
22 Dec 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
22 Dec 2020


I like it, however I've not had much time to play with it. But it is a nice tool to have and should help writing music faster; I got a client that I will need a lot of songs done quickly for and that was the motivation for me to get it. The results are usable and you can quickly get a couple of nice variations. Trial it and figure out if it is for you or not. It's the only way.
Would be interested to know how you a using it, I'm assuming it's going to need to be part of a stack to get a good initial idea going.
It depends. I've written a melody then put it through the mutator to get variations. Or a chord progression. Or I've used a midi from a sample pack and turned into something new. The initial idea is something that comes before the mutator, I think. From there, the sky's the limit with players: stack, rearrange, sent to track, mutate again... Whatever!

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