Noise Engineering: SB 1 or SB 2?

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WasteLand
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2018

Post 20 Nov 2020

i am undecisive which to buy synth bundle 1 or 2, i like the noise engineering modules, SB1 seems to be more aggresive (?) which i like, and what i want (other stuff i also have, but i like it with edges), or can i achieve the same results with SB2. the pricing isn't the problem.

i can also buy some seperate modules, cherry pick, but i don't believe there is an upgrade path from modules to bundle. and €28 (for me), isn't much, but 2 is already more than €55.

so SB2 does not replace SB1, if i am correct, but SB2 has the advantage of more control, which i like, more possibilities.

i don't think either way i can go wrong. but perhaps some insight, from users, could help to decide.

thanks for reading!
win 10 pro. reason 11.3 suite. cubase pro 11. nektara panorama p1. softube modular, voltage modular, reaktor.

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BRIGGS
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Post 20 Nov 2020

I have both. I suggest you trial them first. Make sure you'll use them, and if they fit your music.

Having said that, they're awesome and are capable of some very unique sounds! :puf_smile:
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Mataya
Posts: 92
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Post 20 Nov 2020

I just realised today that Little Lfo device, which is free I think is so powerful and can even sound like some of those Noise engineering devices. Unpredictable and crazy sometimes and also classic monophonic tones...sometimes.

Try it please, you wont be dissapointed. Having said that...I totally want Noise engineering stuff. They are just unique. :) :)

M

DougalDarkly
Posts: 152
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 21 Nov 2020

I own them all and I really love them - I bought Bundle 2 first - I think the added envelopes/LPGs help to make them a bit more versatile, plus they represent amazing value for six quite different synth modules (to me at least - these REs aren't for everybody - trials ftw!).

Having said that, I bought Bundle 1 as soon as it came back on sale and was not disappointed - the first 3 modules are fantastic for drum and percussion sounds and although they seem like cut-down versions of the later ones, the built-in attack and delay curves give them a different character.

WasteLand
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2018

Post 21 Nov 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
20 Nov 2020
I have both. I suggest you trial them first. Make sure you'll use them, and if they fit your music.

Having said that, they're awesome and are capable of some very unique sounds! :puf_smile:
i did trial some, sometime ago. i will certainly use them, because they fit my music. unique sounds, yeah!

thanks for your comment!
Mataya wrote:
20 Nov 2020
I just realised today that Little Lfo device, which is free I think is so powerful and can even sound like some of those Noise engineering devices. Unpredictable and crazy sometimes and also classic monophonic tones...sometimes.

Try it please, you wont be dissapointed. Having said that...I totally want Noise engineering stuff. They are just unique. :) :)

M
mmmh, yes sometimes with "small" "modules" you can achieve great sounds, in softube modular, the patches i make myself aren't loaded with a lot of modules, the way i patch them, creates rich and powerfull, and strange droning sounds.
noise engineering would extend what i already do, in way. thanks! o yes, little LLFO i have, it is free.
DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020
I own them all and I really love them - I bought Bundle 2 first - I think the added envelopes/LPGs help to make them a bit more versatile, plus they represent amazing value for six quite different synth modules (to me at least - these REs aren't for everybody - trials ftw!).

Having said that, I bought Bundle 1 as soon as it came back on sale and was not disappointed - the first 3 modules are fantastic for drum and percussion sounds and although they seem like cut-down versions of the later ones, the built-in attack and delay curves give them a different character.
yes an amazing value, for 6 modules that are designed/programmed by the hardware developers themselves, like vult or befaco.

that was also what i expected mainly because of Basimilus Iteritas, that is more focused on drum sounds, and me like it, but drums as such, i don't use it anymore, it is a phase..., they will come back, o certainly, i use them sometimes, and i have more drum modules, in other soft modulars, but Basimilus Iteritas is a different beast.
i changed from drum based songs to rhytmic based songs, if that makes any sense. although i use drum stuff, and mangle them, sample them, so, i always work differently, a lot of approaches, so.. this becomes TL;DR..

thanks fot your insight, then i will start with SB 2, and SB 1, will certainly come next. i was planning only to buy one upgrade (nothing to do with reason) with BF, i have made a plan! but, i forgot noise engineering, in my plan... so...

noise engineering, not everyone will "like" it, but that noise engineering makes RE's, or modules.., for reason it is a big +++.

i use soft modulars a lot and a big plus, for example for voltage modular with the plugin host, you can host reason rack, or the other way around of course, so noise engineering can also be a part of it (also for VCV rack of course), and although it is a niche product, soft modulars, noise engineering is quite wanted, but it is only for reason, no prob for me..

EDIT: tried one that i didn't try before, what a sound monster, i did only some simple things, what you do when you load a module for the first time. also the sound quality is excellent, on par with the best soft modulars.. (complex-1 does it also...).
win 10 pro. reason 11.3 suite. cubase pro 11. nektara panorama p1. softube modular, voltage modular, reaktor.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

DougalDarkly
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Post 21 Nov 2020

WasteLand wrote:
21 Nov 2020
noise engineering, not everyone will "like" it, but that noise engineering makes RE's, or modules.., for reason it is a big +++.
Absolutely! It's a real shame there seems to be such a lukewarm response from Reason users (at least the ones that come here) - I think if they really understood what these REs represent in terms of expanding Reason's pallette, they'd be more enthusiastic and we might have gotten a few more from NE or other developers - at the moment that seems unlikely.

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MrFigg
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Post 21 Nov 2020

DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020

I think if they really understood what these REs represent in terms of expanding Reason's pallette, they'd be more enthusiastic and we might have gotten a few more from NE or other developers - at the moment that seems unlikely.
Any chance of telling me? I want to be more enthusiastic.
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Adabler
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Post 21 Nov 2020

DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020
Absolutely! It's a real shame there seems to be such a lukewarm response from Reason users (at least the ones that come here)
I think the first bundle was applauded at release, but the second bundle was somewhat pricier and I think a lot of people thought them to be too similar. I got both and are very happy with them, even though I've yet to fully understand every unit.

I think they sound very good and weird at the same time and some of them are great for making drum and percussion sounds among many other things.
:reason: 11 on Win10

DougalDarkly
Posts: 152
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Post 21 Nov 2020

MrFigg wrote:
21 Nov 2020
DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020

I think if they really understood what these REs represent in terms of expanding Reason's pallette, they'd be more enthusiastic and we might have gotten a few more from NE or other developers - at the moment that seems unlikely.
Any chance of telling me? I want to be more enthusiastic.
I just mean that there's nothing else like them on the store - they do something different, or at least encourage a different approach.

These modules are for tinkerers, they work best when experimentally and extensively modulated - they are not patchbanks to flick through for inspiration like a lot of synths - you discover what they're capable of only by fucking around.

If you're recreating the synth sound you've got in your head and you just want to get on with writing your song, I wouldn't use these modules - use a more conventionally laid out synth that you understand fully.

If you love twiddling knobs just for the hell of it and you like to explore and experiment as part of your process, then you'll love them.

DougalDarkly
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Post 21 Nov 2020

Adabler wrote:
21 Nov 2020
I think they sound very good and weird at the same time and some of them are great for making drum and percussion sounds among many other things.
Agreed - nice summary - I couldn't have (and didn't manage to) put it better!

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MrFigg
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Post 21 Nov 2020

DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020
MrFigg wrote:
21 Nov 2020


Any chance of telling me? I want to be more enthusiastic.
I just mean that there's nothing else like them on the store - they do something different, or at least encourage a different approach.

These modules are for tinkerers, they work best when experimentally and extensively modulated - they are not patchbanks to flick through for inspiration like a lot of synths - you discover what they're capable of only by fucking around.

If you're recreating the synth sound you've got in your head and you just want to get on with writing your song, I wouldn't use these modules - use a more conventionally laid out synth that you understand fully.

If you love twiddling knobs just for the hell of it and you like to explore and experiment as part of your process, then you'll love them.
Yeah...that's what I figured. I get it...add this to that and see what you come up with. I can do crazy stuff with my guitar putting stuff through other stuff in an "unvonventional" way. Modules are way beyond me. Got to add here, and don't be jealous, but I actually have Bundle 2 and I got it for $13...it appeared in the Deals section and was there a few days. I'll keep it until I go to pension then start twiddling :)
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DougalDarkly
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Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 21 Nov 2020

MrFigg wrote:
21 Nov 2020
...I actually have Bundle 2 and I got it for $13...it appeared in the Deals section and was there a few days.
I remember - I emailed them at the time and they had no idea it was happening - they seemed pretty chill about it though!

They are a hardware focussed company though, so that, combined with the almost-flatline response would lead them to pretty much write them off to experience.

Like I said it's a shame for me, because I love Reason's environment and would have liked to see a few more experimenters like these guys develop more REs.

The concept, as I understood it, is that hardware guys like this used software to design, build and test their stuff, so why not sell that software to cheap-asses like me!

Maybe with the rise of VCV Rack, Voltage and Softube modular, that ship has sailed for RS?

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MrFigg
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Post 21 Nov 2020

DougalDarkly wrote:
21 Nov 2020

The concept, as I understood it, is that hardware guys like this used software to design, build and test their stuff, so why not sell that software to cheap-asses like me!
I think that's pretty much what the military do with weapons. Beta some awesome missiles :)
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WasteLand
Posts: 48
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Post 22 Nov 2020

they are indeed very special RE's, for reason. which doesn't that you could make very exeperimental music with reason, a track, not finished, i used even one of those layers instruments (or instruments..), 2 effects, let the patterns do their work. sample it, imported to ableton, with simple, 2 times.. different settings nice rhythmic basis & used sceninc (in rack, own samples + preset of course), yes scenic,(and LION) to create a very "dark", industral track.
the creative use of effects, or even the simplies synth can give whay you want.

but these give a new sound palet, yes, personal i never try a module in a soft modular to sound like a synth.. or existing synth..

the rise of VCV rack, voltage and soft modular. don't forget reaktor blocks...

if you look around in the store, and don't forget thor, or europe, or even scenic.., grains... etc. when using own samples, or existing/own wavetables in europe, they are powerfull synths, that can also produce sounds that aren't that mainstream, or aren't mainstream at all.

you can experiment in RS, with noise engineering, with only 1 bundle, i will go first to SB 2, and later, you have so many sound source, in combi with filters, effects, modulators, etc. in RS. but more of this stuff? yes of course. but if you look closely noise engineering is in the harwarde modular world, also the more experimental modular makers..

but good to see, that noise engineering gives something special to RS.

and mr frigg, the SB 2 bundle for €13........ o well, those mistakes in "systems", i also have been lucky, a few times..

i don't use factory/third party patches/presets, or refills, although sometimes a happy accident, after mangling them, with only modulation, a nice effects chain...

so it is niche thing, noise engineering, like all soft modulars.. but me like..

i tried some more of the modules, wow! what you can achieve, only scratch the surface, dialing in myself, not modulating from patterns, or automation. but modulated they must be, or not..., sound also freakin awesome. the sound quality is great, it isn't easy to make these things sound great in software. o well, if you know what you are doing as a (DSP) developer...
win 10 pro. reason 11.3 suite. cubase pro 11. nektara panorama p1. softube modular, voltage modular, reaktor.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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Reasonable man
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Post 23 Nov 2020

You have to get both i think unfortunatley to make use of the full range of sounds, Practically all of em are fm/addiitive modules. I think they sound beautifull :puf_smile:

For the typical sequenced modular melodies my favourite starting point is usually the Sinc Iter Vereor..probably the easiest of all of em to get going. my least used is probably the Manis Iteritas (although i love the Manis Iteritas vereor)...i find it dosns't have the varied range of the other modules but thats maybe me.

Mostly i've found that i dont use the cv note input much now at all ..just the cv gate input and i get a tone by twiddling or modulating the front knobs (from the back).

I find all the modules work well with looped envelopes . To make things easier though (and i know i;ve mentioned this before!) i would love a software module like the voltage block (whicjh Divkid is using in the video) i think there are tonnes of developers out there that could knock up something like this ..Fingers crossed ha ha


Mataya
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019

Post 23 Nov 2020

Bought both bundles yesterday. Blown away, just as I was when I demoed it. For techno like stuff, at least, it's amazing. Gritty chords, weird percussive shots, Kick and bass twisted around them selves...and so much more and even more twisted. Go for bundle 1. So much you can do with just that. Upgrade to bundle 2 when you'll feel the need.

M

DougalDarkly
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Reasonable man wrote:
23 Nov 2020
To make things easier though (and i know i;ve mentioned this before!) i would love a software module like the voltage block (whicjh Divkid is using in the video) i think there are tonnes of developers out there that could knock up something like this ..Fingers crossed ha ha
Agreed - get on it devs! :puf_bigsmile:

I'd love for someone to detach THOR's sequencer, refine it a bit for performance and put 8 of them in a virtual box... ooooh...

WasteLand
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2018

Post 23 Nov 2020

Reasonable man wrote:
23 Nov 2020
You have to get both i think unfortunatley to make use of the full range of sounds, Practically all of em are fm/addiitive modules. I think they sound beautifull :puf_smile:
i love the sound to, but you mention the ones in the SB 2 bundle.. but you are right to get it all, both bundles are "necessary". because i own already soft modulars, and soft modules, i continue after the next quote
Mataya wrote:
23 Nov 2020
Bought both bundles yesterday. Blown away, just as I was when I demoed it. For techno like stuff, at least, it's amazing. Gritty chords, weird percussive shots, Kick and bass twisted around them selves...and so much more and even more twisted. Go for bundle 1. So much you can do with just that. Upgrade to bundle 2 when you'll feel the need.

M
the SB 1 are more percussive, and in those areas, i have a lot.

why first the bundle 1? it is a great bundle, no doubt, i am mainly demoing the ones in 2, and 2 that i didn't demo from 1.

they are different beasts, the mod controls, curves, env, the routing internal is different, so they do different things.

for me the purpose is: industrial, experimental; which sometimes leans towards techno, in a certain way, result are different sounds, but with the same "power"... mmh, difficult to say it precisely now, i can do better.

still undecided, but leaning towards SB 2, and later in time.., SB1. SB 2 sits better in what i am making right now... difficult.

i had a plan, did i mentioned it, i think i did. buy only one BF sale (and upgrade, that completes a full bundle of melda plugins, the MCompleteBundle, already usefull for a lot of sounddesign stuff). so yes i already stated it, noise engineering, wasn't planned...
win 10 pro. reason 11.3 suite. cubase pro 11. nektara panorama p1. softube modular, voltage modular, reaktor.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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artotaku
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Location: Munich, Germany

Post 23 Nov 2020

You cannot go wrong these modules if you like harsh unexpected otherwordly sounds for some dark techno or industrial.

I hadn´t expected it from LIP (Loquelic Iteritas Percido) which is targetted for drones but I created one of the hardest hitting kicks I ever did. I think it actually hit through the brickwall.

100% Noise Engineering (with some FX).


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MrFigg
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Got a question...have I totally misunderstood these REs? Up until now I've thought they were modular...like in Eurorack. I just downloaded a couple of them now after reading this thread and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually all synths in their own right. Are they?
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Mataya
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019

Post 23 Nov 2020

[/quote]

the SB 1 are more percussive, and in those areas, i have a lot.

why first the bundle 1? it is a great bundle, no doubt, i am mainly demoing the ones in 2, and 2 that i didn't demo from 1.

they are different beasts, the mod controls, curves, env, the routing internal is different, so they do different things.

for me the purpose is: industrial, experimental; which sometimes leans towards techno, in a certain way, result are different sounds, but with the same "power"... mmh, difficult to say it precisely now, i can do better.

still undecided, but leaning towards SB 2, and later in time.., SB1. SB 2 sits better in what i am making right now... difficult.

i had a plan, did i mentioned it, i think i did. buy only one BF sale (and upgrade, that completes a full bundle of melda plugins, the MCompleteBundle, already usefull for a lot of sounddesign stuff). so yes i already stated it, noise engineering, wasn't planned...
[/quote]


I wouldn't say bundle 1 is "just" for percussive stuff. I did not spend much time with all of the to be able to say what each is especially good for, but I have to say that they can sound very similar and after a few knob twist it just goes somewhere where the others didn't go...if that make sense. They really are different beasts and you can find the differences pretty quickly after playing with them.
But like someone said earlier...you can start with a "drony" one form the collection and end up with a beefy distorted kick drum.

I think bundle one is a good choice for start, because it covers so much of the sounds it can produce, you will not be bored soon. But if you have the money, go with both. I think it will itch for another bundle after you buy one of them anyway.

You wont regret for sure if you're bored with goey analog and classic subtractive synths.

Mataya
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019

Post 23 Nov 2020

MrFigg wrote:
23 Nov 2020
Got a question...have I totally misunderstood these REs? Up until now I've thought they were modular...like in Eurorack. I just downloaded a couple of them now after reading this thread and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually all synths in their own right. Are they?
Yes they are. Cleverly designed so you end up with all kinds of different and complex waveforms that are easily modulated which leads to more animated complex waveforms.
I'm still trying to learn more about each "synth", but it seems like a lot is going on under the hood and I just can't reproduce it with usual snyths I have. That's why I think they are unique and useful for me.

M

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zoidkirb
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Post 23 Nov 2020

MrFigg wrote:
23 Nov 2020
Got a question...have I totally misunderstood these REs? Up until now I've thought they were modular...like in Eurorack. I just downloaded a couple of them now after reading this thread and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually all synths in their own right. Are they?
Yes, they're all self contained synths. But they're modular in the Reason way, with every parameter having a CV in for further tweaking. CV out too, where I use the devices own envelopes sometimes.

WasteLand
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Jun 2018

Post 23 Nov 2020

Mataya wrote:
23 Nov 2020
MrFigg wrote:
23 Nov 2020
Got a question...have I totally misunderstood these REs? Up until now I've thought they were modular...like in Eurorack. I just downloaded a couple of them now after reading this thread and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually all synths in their own right. Are they?
Yes they are. Cleverly designed so you end up with all kinds of different and complex waveforms that are easily modulated which leads to more animated complex waveforms.
I'm still trying to learn more about each "synth", but it seems like a lot is going on under the hood and I just can't reproduce it with usual snyths I have. That's why I think they are unique and useful for me.

M
they are unique, and i have of course an arsenal of substractive synths, but also other synthesis, and soft modulars, with a lot of modules, also with a lot with a unique character
(buchla, zeroscillator to mention some, there are more), so substractive isn't my main way of working, in the beginning yes.

but even if i have several soft modular ecosystems, with a lot of "stuff", these are quite special. noise engineering, i already mentioned it, is also in the modular world, the hardware world, more of the experimental module makers.

it are full synths, VCO/VCE(is that a real term...)/VCA, or full, SB 2 have a LPG, that is a Filter, so SB 2 is VCO/ENV/VCA/VCF........ still in the substractive domain...

but the range of SB 1 and SB 2 "modules" is very wide, the range of sound you can produce. ENV are very important, sometimes people forget how important ENVelopes are.
VCO and VCF mainly get the attention, but i good ENVelope generator, like in the noise engineering modules, show what it can do with the sound, how it influence the source of the sound, how it sculpts it. wavefolding, LPG. it is bit or more west coast orientated (although west - east coast, yes buchla - moog, there are certainly differences. one more experimental, buchla, moog more straightforward (?), o well with moog modules, you can get also very experimental like, fill in.... buchla starts already experimental, like noise engineering, moog can be very experimental, but the other way around? west-east coast, it isn't that important anymore, but historically interesting, california and new york in the same time...)

noise engineering that they ported there stuff to reason is quite surprising, and not a bad thing at all, audio rate is not possible, i think, but it seems that noise engineering isn't designed for audio rate (which is indeed again a west coast thing, the difference made between audio and CV), i can be wrong. i know my stuff, but my head! isn't clear as a sunny day, every day..

but audio rate and noise engineering.... wow... perhaps too much, that is maybe the key difference still, althoug you have hybrid west-east modules... buchla still makes a difference between audio output/input and CV. you can override it, in software me thinks. i know this stuff, i work with it! o well...

bottom line: noise engineering is (and there are other modules, more utilities...) expands the universe of reason in a very big way.

EDIT: before i submit, i see a new reaction, yes they have ENV out. which is nice, because the ENV generator, or voltage controlled envelope, is something that behaves differently than standard envelopes.
win 10 pro. reason 11.3 suite. cubase pro 11. nektara panorama p1. softube modular, voltage modular, reaktor.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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Reasonable man
Posts: 567
Joined: 14 Jul 2016

Post 23 Nov 2020

MrFigg wrote:
23 Nov 2020
Got a question...have I totally misunderstood these REs? Up until now I've thought they were modular...like in Eurorack. I just downloaded a couple of them now after reading this thread and I'm starting to wonder if they are actually all synths in their own right. Are they?
Yea Louque put together some lovely pads using the ataraxic Itaritis vereor (with some clever use of the Loith device to smooth out the attack ..if i remeber correctly ).

You have to use eq's after some of the devices to take out some of the more nasty frequencies, a filter after that and usually a delay/ reverb after that ..helps no end . They're pretty raw on their own . And with pads you have to layer 2 or 3 in a combi with a line mixer ..cause they're all mono devices ..and mono pads on their own sound too weird so pads is all about stacking. Beautifull ricjh sounds though if you do it right!

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