Red Rock Bass Enhancer vs Waves Submarine

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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 09 Nov 2020

I wanted to investigate adding more sub to a mixed track that was a little too light in the sub range, due to too much high pass during final limiting/maximizing.
A. Red Rock Bass Enhancer + Waves RBass
B. Waves Submarine

Not sure if the Red Rock got new algo's after the face lift, but it IS time to pay attention to it. I never liked it in its old "clothes". Maybe I used on the wrong material. But here it is used it on a final mix with: Mix knob set to 50/50, Scope to 80Hz (so that should generate a sub around 40Hz I guess), Color at 2 o'clock, and finally Drive at 11 o'clock. Then RBass at 50Hz and that will add some upper harmonics to the new sub.

Didn't take too long to balance thing up. Wow, that bottom end... Makes me wonder if this could be a new way of mix/mastering, just high pass everything at 45Hz and get the LUFS up without having your final limiter destroy the sound, then add in the right amount of bottom end with Red Rock Bass Enhancer + Waves RBass. The "Listen" function is great when you want to solo the sub to hear and be assured you do not add to much upper boxyness back with RBass and the "Color" knob.

What about Submarine? Could not even get close, it was either, I do not feel it, I do not hear it, or it is too boomy. I was curious though to see what it could do, and if I could get better results than from what i remembered I could with the "old" Red Rock Bass Enhancer. But just something, what you already have is what works best.

I think Submarine can do better with higher pitched material, like cinematic booms and stuff that need extra sub, all the way 2 oct down. So, not saying it is garbage, just not great for this usage.
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gullum
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Post 09 Nov 2020

Unfortunately I can not use Red Rock Bass Enhancer it constantly crashes inside reason. "Device stopped working" message

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Boombastix
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Post 09 Nov 2020

gullum wrote:
09 Nov 2020
Unfortunately I can not use Red Rock Bass Enhancer it constantly crashes inside reason. "Device stopped working" message
That's bad news. Plz send crash report to the developer. Been working fine for me in R10.4 and W10, but I haven't put it to extensive use yet.
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seqoi
Posts: 399
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 10 Nov 2020

gullum wrote:
09 Nov 2020
Unfortunately I can not use Red Rock Bass Enhancer it constantly crashes inside reason. "Device stopped working" message
Working fine here on R11 Suite. Report it to developer, I am sure he will appreciate it and fix it.

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gullum
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Post 10 Nov 2020

send bug report to them 2 days after the update never heard from them
and it's also reported in original update thread on here
I'm on mac so might be mac only prob

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Red Rock
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Post 10 Nov 2020

gullum wrote:
10 Nov 2020
send bug report to them 2 days after the update never heard from them
and it's also reported in original update thread on here
I'm on mac so might be mac only prob
Hi,

We checked the current build for bugs, found no bugs. And also I reinstalled the plugin in Mac OS, the plugin works normally

Try to remove the plugin from the Authorizer and install it again, if this does not solve the problem, please write to us by e-mail, we will try to identify and solve this problem

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gullum
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Location: Faroe Islands

Post 11 Nov 2020

Red Rock wrote:
10 Nov 2020
gullum wrote:
10 Nov 2020
send bug report to them 2 days after the update never heard from them
and it's also reported in original update thread on here
I'm on mac so might be mac only prob
Hi,

We checked the current build for bugs, found no bugs. And also I reinstalled the plugin in Mac OS, the plugin works normally

Try to remove the plugin from the Authorizer and install it again, if this does not solve the problem, please write to us by e-mail, we will try to identify and solve this problem
I have removed from authorizer and install again and still get same message
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Iggster
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Location: United Kingdom

Post 15 Nov 2020

Why use Red Rock Bass Enhancer with R Bass? Do they not do the same thing?

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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 15 Nov 2020

There are 4 types of bass enhancers
1. HP Filter with a high Q, basically a form of EQ
2. Adding overtones (RBass, RBass is based on an old Waves patent, but upgraded to include a dynamic function so it is more punchy)
3. Octave down pitch of source material (often guitar pedals)
4. Synthesizing a sub tone based on pitch detection (Submarine, also Red Rock I believe)

There might be a fifth:
5. Phase alignment, such as BBE - but some guys analysing the circuit claims there is no alignment made and it belongs in #1, I don't know what the BBE circuit does, only that it sounds unimpressive.
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Iggster
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Location: United Kingdom

Post 16 Nov 2020

Thanks. I may need to take a look at at RBass during the Black Friday sale then!

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selig
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Post 16 Nov 2020

Boombastix wrote:
15 Nov 2020
4. Synthesizing a sub tone based on pitch detection (Submarine, also Red Rock I believe)
We should get a confirmation from the dev, but that's not what I THOUGHT this RE did. According to their site:
"SCOPE — this knob simply controls where the process begins in frequency domain. For example, with a setting of 85 Hz, all frequencies below 85 Hz will have Harmonics generated by the system."

This does not say that a sub-harmonic one octave below 85 Hz will be generated, as others have suggested in this thread. A simple test using a sine wave @ 85 Hz and the built in spectrum analyzer would reveal the answer very quickly… :)
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Boombastix
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Joined: 18 May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 16 Nov 2020

selig wrote:
16 Nov 2020
Boombastix wrote:
15 Nov 2020
4. Synthesizing a sub tone based on pitch detection (Submarine, also Red Rock I believe)
We should get a confirmation from the dev, but that's not what I THOUGHT this RE did. According to their site:
"SCOPE — this knob simply controls where the process begins in frequency domain. For example, with a setting of 85 Hz, all frequencies below 85 Hz will have Harmonics generated by the system."

This does not say that a sub-harmonic one octave below 85 Hz will be generated, as others have suggested in this thread. A simple test using a sine wave @ 85 Hz and the built in spectrum analyzer would reveal the answer very quickly… :)
I looked. No sub generated. There is something funky going on with the levels that throws you off as the fundamental goes up to >+6dB higher at certain settings, so it appears it is doing overtones and volume, not sub. So gotta be careful using it, not as controlled as RBass, and RBass has some kind of dynamic aspect to it making it quite punchy, they do sound quite different too. The Red Rock sounds more like tube drive circuit with "poor" level control when adjusting the color knob. It does have a nice character though, just wish the boost of the fundamental wasn't there. But useful non the less.

So speaking of tube drivers, Nick Crow Lab and Klanghelm are very nice too.
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