Scenic vs. Grain ?

[tumar]

Hello,
I can’t figure out - how Grain compares to Scenic?
Do they cover the same areas? Is it Scenic just simplified Grain version?
Please, share Your experience. For me, Scenic is the only potential point of advantage to choose Suite over regular Reason version.
I would be grateful for any hint.

[loopeydoug]

I wish I could offer something more productive to the conversation, other than Scenic seems like the rompler version of Grain, so to speak. I have them both. I haven't used Scenic in any project yet. Also, do you either already own or not have any use for any of the other devices in the suite? For me, Parsec was and is still a big draw. Complex 1, not as much but still much more than Scenic. Plus, it's only fair to mention I was coming from version 9, so I didn't already have Grain yet, which I was looking forward to most of all! I guess I'm chiming in to be the fall guy to get the convo moving. Seems like if you got 2 Grains and a combi, you've got yourself 1 Scenic.

[MrFigg]

I wish I could offer something more productive to the conversation, other than Scenic seems like the rompler version of Grain, so to speak. I have them both. I haven't used Scenic in any project yet. Also, do you either already own or not have any use for any of the other devices in the suite? For me, Parsec was and is still a big draw. Complex 1, not as much but still much more than Scenic. Plus, it's only fair to mention I was coming from version 9, so I didn't already have Grain yet, which I was looking forward to most of all! I guess I'm chiming in to be the fall guy to get the convo moving. Seems like if you got 2 Grains and a combi, you've got yourself 1 Scenic.

If you’ve got a sample pack and a cross fader (groovy melon one is free) then you’ve essentially got Scenic as far as I can see.

[fieldframe]

Scenic's granular manipulation is less powerful than Grain's, but its built-in sample library is something Grain doesn't have.

I don't user either very much, but I probably use Scenic more because it's faster to create an ambient pad from scratch, and the effects feel slightly better suited to ambience. Scenic's presets (and its UX-nightmare "spoke" macro controls) are by far its weakest points. It would have been a lot nicer if they'd hired someone like Exode to design the presets, or the guy who designed the Complex-1 front panel to design the UI, but it's a decent ambient rompler.

I would not buy Suite just for Scenic, though.

[TritoneAddiction]

I haven't used Grain that much, mostly because there's too much stuff to mess around with for me. That's the kind of user I am.
Scenic on the other hand has gotten plenty of use from me. It's fairly simple to use, which I like. For me Scenic is a perfect blend between the electronic side and the more natural/organic side and it's found its way into several songs.

I'm not saying Scenic is "better" in any way. In fact I'm pretty sure you can do a lot more with Grain. So it's probably a question of simplicity/quick results vs endless options/tweakability.

But at some point, maybe soon, I'll probably dive in into Grain and explore it properly. So far I've just found it too overwhelming to even start.

[stuk71]

Oh...

So there is a whole other section to Scenic that I didn’t know existed. I thought it was just the screen with the dial on it and a bunch of presets.

I shall have to explore.

Love Grain, and simply as a sample player as I find it has a different sound from the NNXT

[chaosroyale]

Does anyone wanna paypal me to build a Combinator around 2 X Grains and a crossfader, and throw in a bunch of samples you can use, so you don't have to waste your money on scenic or those kontakt "crossfade drone instruments" (you've seen them everywhere). If 5 people paid like 20 bucks each, that would probably cover the time for me to make and organize the samples. Building the combinator will only take me about 5 minutes, I already have plenty of similar combinators in this kind of style using VSTs, making a native devices only one would be easy.

My point is you can do this yourself and samples are everywhere on the internet for free anyway. I am half serious tho, I do this kind of thing for a living so if anyone is willing to pay for my time I can make a combi and sample pack.

[tumar]

Thanks for answers!
This is call between: 1) Reason 11 Suite or 2) Reason 11 + Synth Rig 4 upgrade
I have Reason 9 and old Synth Rig already. Parsec 2 is included in Synth Rig 4, so I wouldn't lost it
I don't need sample packs, I would like to use my own samples taken during field recording.

[chaosroyale]

I approve of using your own original samples. Sample packs are usually lazy shit.

Why are you thinking of getting Suite/Synth rig, and not VST synths? Honestly, most RE synths are just "filler". The best ones (e.g. The Legend) are also VSTs anyway. For example you could get VPS Avenger on sale for less than 150 dollars, and that is better than every synth in Reason or the Rack Extensions store. eXpanse is pretty good, especially when it goes on sale for 50 bucks. But still not as good as Serum. etc, etc.

Thanks for answers!
This is call between: 1) Reason 11 Suite or 2) Reason 11 + Synth Rig 4 upgrade
I have Reason 9 and old Synth Rig already. Parsec 2 is included in Synth Rig 4, so I wouldn't lost it
I don't need sample packs, I would like to use my own samples taken during field recording.

[Loque]

I approve of using your own original samples. Sample packs are usually lazy shit.

Why are you thinking of getting Suite/Synth rig, and not VST synths? Honestly, most RE synths are just "filler". The best ones (e.g. The Legend) are also VSTs anyway. For example you could get VPS Avenger on sale for less than 150 dollars, and that is better than every synth in Reason or the Rack Extensions store. eXpanse is pretty good, especially when it goes on sale for 50 bucks. But still not as good as Serum. etc, etc.

Thanks for answers!
This is call between: 1) Reason 11 Suite or 2) Reason 11 + Synth Rig 4 upgrade
I have Reason 9 and old Synth Rig already. Parsec 2 is included in Synth Rig 4, so I wouldn't lost it
I don't need sample packs, I would like to use my own samples taken during field recording.

TBH, i wouldnt buy Avenger again. Its routing is so stupid. If you praise the VST, than look out for something else.

And there are still RE that rock. Its kind of weird to compare the RE to one of the most selling VSTs which calls the doubled price tag too. This is silly, really. There are so many rip-off VST synths out there, calling price tags that just make me laugh and they are such a crap - its just a shame! Pls, do not start a discussion if VSTs are better than RE. They all have there place , advantages and disadvantages...

[chaosroyale]

Of course there are many bad VST devices, because the VST market is so much bigger than the RE market.

Are you seriously saying that RE synths can compete with Serum, U-He, VPS, Falcon, etc? Which ones? eXpanse is a good synth, but not as good as Serum. Legend is great, but it is a VST. That's honestly about it...

The RE synth rig is 299 dollars, and most of it is crap. For 299 dollars, there are better options in the VST world.

TBH, i wouldnt buy Avenger again. Its routing is so stupid. If you praise the VST, than look out for something else.

And there are still RE that rock. Its kind of weird to compare the RE to one of the most selling VSTs which calls the doubled price tag too. This is silly, really. There are so many rip-off VST synths out there, calling price tags that just make me laugh and they are such a crap - its just a shame! Pls, do not start a discussion if VSTs are better than RE. They all have there place , advantages and disadvantages...

[Loque]

Of course there are many bad VST devices, because the VST market is so much bigger than the RE market.

Are you seriously saying that RE synths can compete with Serum, U-He, VPS, Falcon, etc? Which ones? eXpanse is a good synth, but not as good as Serum. Legend is great, but it is a VST. That's honestly about it...

The RE synth rig is 299 dollars, and most of it is crap. For 299 dollars, there are better options in the VST world.

TBH, i wouldnt buy Avenger again. Its routing is so stupid. If you praise the VST, than look out for something else.

And there are still RE that rock. Its kind of weird to compare the RE to one of the most selling VSTs which calls the doubled price tag too. This is silly, really. There are so many rip-off VST synths out there, calling price tags that just make me laugh and they are such a crap - its just a shame! Pls, do not start a discussion if VSTs are better than RE. They all have there place , advantages and disadvantages...

Sorry, i dont enter this silly discussion. Its just sad...

[guitfnky]

I started the Serum rent to own on Splice a month before Europa dropped with R10--I have no need for Serum now. it's okay, and sounds decent, but it's not any better than Europa for my needs. honestly I'm not a fan of most VST instruments I've tried, with the only exceptions so far being XLN Audio's plugins.

if you can't coax great sounds out of the Reason instruments, you're not trying very hard. of course that doesn't mean VSTs can't be just as good or better (obviously they can), but regardless whether you're using an RE or a VST, the end result comes down to the user.

[MrFigg]

"VSTs are better than REs."
Oh yes they are, oh no they're not, oh yes they are, oh no they're not Ad infinitum.
Hahahahaha

[guitfnky]

"VSTs are better than REs."
Oh yes they are, oh no they're not, oh yes they are, oh no they're not Ad infinitum.
Hahahahaha

yep! never blame your tools.

[TritoneAddiction]

"VSTs are better than REs."
Oh yes they are, oh no they're not, oh yes they are, oh no they're not Ad infinitum.
Hahahahaha

yep! never blame your tools.

Honestly by the time my synth sounds has gone through EQs, compressors, distortion, delays, amp sims, disperser, Crapre, Audiomatic, reverbs or whatever the hell I usually process my sounds with, who cares where the original sound came from? REs, VSTs, I really don't think it matters that much. It's been so processed anyway.

[Loque]

yep! never blame your tools.

Honestly by the time my synth sounds has gone through EQs, compressors, distortion, delays, amp sims, disperser, Crapre, Audiomatic, reverbs or whatever the hell I usually process my sounds with, who cares where the original sound came from? REs, VSTs, I really don't think it matters that much. It's been so processed anyway.

Lol, yea. The latest RS live stream is a good example of "just make your sound"

[guitfnky]

yep! never blame your tools.

Honestly by the time my synth sounds has gone through EQs, compressors, distortion, delays, amp sims, disperser, Crapre, Audiomatic, reverbs or whatever the hell I usually process my sounds with, who cares where the original sound came from? REs, VSTs, I really don't think it matters that much. It's been so processed anyway.

totally. even if I love the basic sound I’m getting from an instrument, I almost always end up processing the hell out of it anyway—it’s so much fun, and I usually end up with something that’s way more interesting in the end.

[MrFigg]

Honestly by the time my synth sounds has gone through EQs, compressors, distortion, delays, amp sims, disperser, Crapre, Audiomatic, reverbs or whatever the hell I usually process my sounds with, who cares where the original sound came from? REs, VSTs, I really don't think it matters that much. It's been so processed anyway.

totally. even if I love the basic sound I’m getting from an instrument, I almost always end up processing the hell out of it anyway—it’s so much fun, and I usually end up with something that’s way more interesting in the end.

Just to illustrate the point, last night I played 3 or 4 random notes on Rad Piano through Turn2on's Reasonator followed by Ecruos. Tell me this sounds like a piano now

[Loque]

totally. even if I love the basic sound I’m getting from an instrument, I almost always end up processing the hell out of it anyway—it’s so much fun, and I usually end up with something that’s way more interesting in the end.

Just to illustrate the point, last night I played 3 or 4 random notes on Rad Piano through Turn2on's Reasonator followed by Ecruos. Tell me this sounds like a piano now

Physical Modeling Granular Synth 2nd generation?

[MrFigg]

Just to illustrate the point, last night I played 3 or 4 random notes on Rad Piano through Turn2on's Reasonator followed by Ecruos. Tell me this sounds like a piano now

Physical Modeling Granular Synth 2nd generation?

23rd Gen man

[TritoneAddiction]

Honestly by the time my synth sounds has gone through EQs, compressors, distortion, delays, amp sims, disperser, Crapre, Audiomatic, reverbs or whatever the hell I usually process my sounds with, who cares where the original sound came from? REs, VSTs, I really don't think it matters that much. It's been so processed anyway.

totally. even if I love the basic sound I’m getting from an instrument, I almost always end up processing the hell out of it anyway—it’s so much fun, and I usually end up with something that’s way more interesting in the end.

Yep, in my last song Demolition Blues, the snare sample went through a total of 11 different effect devices before coming out the other end. And even more if you count the stuff on the master bus, compression, EQ, limiter.

[tumar]

Ok, I forgot I have free Reason 11 Lite licence (never bothered to install). Can I demo Scenic and Grain with that poor Lite version?

[dvdrtldg]

I agree that there's an awful lot of shovelware in the RE synth department. But the good ones that make full use of the back of the rack are amazing. VK2, Zero, JPS Harmonic Synth, Resonans, Ammo 1200, Nostromo, Torsion, Revival and Antidote in particular

[challism]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet... I'm sort in a hurry and haven't read through all the posts.... but Scenic's effects are far superior to Grain's; I love the effects section. Scenic is even great to use solely as an effects unit, just running external audio into it. I think it sounds great. A lot of people like to do a similar thing with Complex-1's audio input.

I don't like the huge amount of space Scenic takes up on my HDD. For that reason, I don't even have it installed on my laptops, only on my desktop. It's a shame that a user can't opt to install an RE without the sound bank. I'm really not that interested in the samples; I pretty much seem to use Scenic with my own samples loaded, or as an effects device. Most samples kind of bore me, and I've got way too many. I'm more interested in freeing up my hard drive space. Hopefully in the future Reason will give us a choice (ha ha ha ha) if we want to install the sound banks or not. It seems pretty crazy to require them in many cases.