Anyone developing a mixer?

[Steedus]

Here is a prototype artwork (no selectable panels in this yet though)

mix82_rear_mockup.png
Artwork taken from Reason.
Murf.

I know it's probably all still just placeholder stuff but please keep some sort of visual difference for the knobs, like your previous mockup shown at top. It's so much easier to use than a bunch of knobs all looking the same (as your latest mockups are looking)

[Murf]

Yes, the returns make sense, because they have a lower delay. The mixer input delay depends on the audio buffer settings. AFAIK.

Eep... this might not be doable for 3rd party devs... everything is buffered from input to output for us, so if Reason's Mixers can do it with no latency it doesn't necessarily mean we can
I will research more....
Murf.

[Murf]

I know it's probably all still just placeholder stuff but please keep some sort of visual difference for the knobs, like your previous mockup shown at top. It's so much easier to use than a bunch of knobs all looking the same (as your latest mockups are looking)

Yeah they are pictures of the Mixer 14:2 knobs hehe
Long way away yet, it will probably end up looking more like the ui of my MIX88 RE
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ion/mix88/

[Steedus]

This is all personal taste/preference ofcourse, but I think that MIX88 works because it's much bigger and there's a clear line of knobs per channel. On a smaller device with a bunch of knobs bunched together, I think colour variation is much more desirable for readability.

Any-who, happy to check it out (or test) when it's further along. I tested on MIX88 but admit I didn't give much feedback - the format of that mixer threw me, as it's function was different to what I thought it was going to be (a standard mixer ie bunch of sounds go in, stereo mix comes out)

[Murf]

This is all personal taste/preference ofcourse, but I think that MIX88 works because it's much bigger and there's a clear line of knobs per channel. On a smaller device with a bunch of knobs bunched together, I think colour variation is much more desirable for readability.

Any-who, happy to check it out (or test) when it's further along. I tested on MIX88 but admit I didn't give much feedback - the format of that mixer threw me, as it's function was different to what I thought it was going to be (a standard mixer ie bunch of sounds go in, stereo mix comes out)

Yeah MIX88 was a passion project, specifically to replicate a real world product as closely as possible, even if that product could do with much better design

I do like your point about colour though, and even though I will follow the flat "metro" style of MIX88 I will work in more colour this time.

[Murf]

Anyway here is my final feature list for the next Mixer, I know it wont please everyone, but the things I have missed will be included in a subsequent project I promise.
Tentative name: MIX82
Size: 4RU
Channels: 8
RETURNS: 8 (!)
Channel AUX: 8 (2 with pre-fader buttons)
Channel level (+10dB max, not 0)
Channel Pan, possibly with a width control
Channel EQ with bass and treble
Channel Solo/Mute buttons
Master level will be +10dB as well
I will post for beta testers soon.
Murf

[mimidancer]

Anyway here is my final feature list for the next Mixer, I know it wont please everyone, but the things I have missed will be included in a subsequent project I promise.
Tentative name: MIX82
Size: 4RU
Channels: 8
RETURNS: 8 (!)
Channel AUX: 8 (2 with pre-fader buttons)
Channel level (+10dB max, not 0)
Channel Pan, possibly with a width control
Channel EQ with bass and treble
Channel Solo/Mute buttons
Master level will be +10dB as well
I will post for beta testers soon.
Murf

Could you do cv for the volume? so it could be used as a vca.

[Aarav]

This is all personal taste/preference ofcourse, but I think that MIX88 works because it's much bigger and there's a clear line of knobs per channel. On a smaller device with a bunch of knobs bunched together, I think colour variation is much more desirable for readability.

Any-who, happy to check it out (or test) when it's further along. I tested on MIX88 but admit I didn't give much feedback - the format of that mixer threw me, as it's function was different to what I thought it was going to be (a standard mixer ie bunch of sounds go in, stereo mix comes out)

The points you make on the usability of MIX88 and the necessity of clarity in knob layout over color variety on smaller devices are insightful. It is obvious that different mixing formats can influence user expectations and responses. I look forward to further changes!

[Murf]

Could you do cv for the volume? so it could be used as a vca.

Yes CV on as much as I can fit on the back panel.

[Loque]

Could you do cv for the volume? so it could be used as a vca.

Yes CV on as much as I can fit on the back panel.

[Murf]

I have been busy, but now so is the UI ... too busy Not even any room for a name or brand lol
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mix82_front2.PNG (246.36 KiB) Viewed 823 times

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Not the final colors
Not the final Knobs
Not the final buttons (by far)
Not the final slider
Not the final VU meters (maybe)

[xbitz]

aux should/can be an expander(so different half-rack mini an normal size devices) like the VCV device MindMeld MixMaster



https://library.vcvrack.com/?brand=MindMeld
at the bottom

[madwurmz]

I have been busy, but now so is the UI ... too busy Not even any room for a name or brand lol

hi! You say it alright, its looking too busy :O
I think you can't rely on Application Zoom like this!

Here is a mockup I just made, to see if vertical aligning makes more room, but it's the same, too cramped. I replicated your button sizes, but they are honestly too small.

It would make more sense to start the design with comparing sizes of the available mixers and work on various formats to fit the ideas.

I even cheated and added 40 pixels in height to show a logo and 'Init Patch'
But I don't want to imply here to just add a top bar to fit your logo to your design.
I think it's just too full , for this small size device! .. but yeah everybody knows that already and I hope I don't sound like a smartypants ..

Not even sure what the actual use is beyond the currently available mixers...

[Lov2sing]

This looks pretty dope! How hard would it be to add a couple things? CV in for sends would be amazing, as would a bi-polar/uni-polar switch for CV control over the things that are CV-controllable.

I'm not sure how useful the insert in/out is on this, even though I know this is a pretty standard feature on hardware mixers.

Short answer, yes all these things could be added.
My intention on this mockup was to see how much could be crammed into a small footprint, which I accomplished and so I'd be happy to entertain additional features.

But adding anything at this point would require a bigger panel size for starters. For example, adding CV for sends plus uni/bi polar switches for all would significantly increase the needed panel space on the back. And when you do that, you add space on the front too which would provide an opportunity to add more controls to the front (and possibly add the need for more CV on the back, and now we're caught in a vicious circle!!!).

Also, and it's a small detail, but there is a required amount of space to be set aside on all back panels, which is not being done on this mockup - meaning, there's actually less space on the current back panel than indicated by my mockup.

Is it possible to make it into a modular system which connects to each other device without having to worry about cramming all needed features together? It seems your mockup would work fine but adding more would make it too small for the GUI. Maybe if it had several connecting devices that would work better.
My second question is how is it connected to the Reason mixer? Does it add to the mixer or does it bypass it all together. Personally I like to see a RE that takes separate mixers channel strips and combined them into one large mixer which could sum into the Reason mixer or bypass it altogether.

Ultimately we need additional large format mixers. If we are a studio then it’s logical to have more than one mixer. Just a thought.

[crimsonwarlock]

It seems to me that it is more about the wanted/needed functionality, so why try to cram it all into 2U?

Seems like a classic case of form over function.

[Murf]

Here is a mockup I just made, to see if vertical aligning makes more room, but it's the same, too cramped. I replicated your button sizes, but they are honestly too small.

It looks great, but is just colorful re-arranged busy
Murf

[Murf]

It seems to me that it is more about the wanted/needed functionality, so why try to cram it all into 2U?

Seems like a classic case of form over function.

maybe 3U, which is still less than 4U
I will try it

[Murf]

Is it possible to make it into a modular system which connects to each other device without having to worry about cramming all needed features together? It seems your mockup would work fine but adding more would make it too small for the GUI. Maybe if it had several connecting devices that would work better.
My second question is how is it connected to the Reason mixer? Does it add to the mixer or does it bypass it all together. Personally I like to see a RE that takes separate mixers channel strips and combined them into one large mixer which could sum into the Reason mixer or bypass it altogether.

Ultimately we need additional large format mixers. If we are a studio then it’s logical to have more than one mixer. Just a thought.

I am sure Selig would agree, but connecting multiple devices introduces one cycle of buffer latency between every stage, whereas in one RE that is avoided.

For the second question, it is not connected to the Reason main mixer in any way. To integrate with it directly without channel strips is beyond the scope of the Reason SDK (as far as I am aware?)

See my MIX88 for a larger format mixer

Another option is to have internal modules in the one RE, similar to Korg's effects or the ModularRE
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... processor/
I am considering that idea for the one after my next Mixer
Murf.

[Murf]

Here is a quickly thrown together 3U version.
I didnt put much effort in since it is probably gonna change so much anyway
Mostly got rid of the smaller knobs and made a bit more room
I will start on the signal routing now since all the UI elements I will need are there (except maybe PAN width knobs ...)
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mix82_front_3u.PNG (141.64 KiB) Viewed 690 times

[tewoc]

To be honest, it looks terrible to me. Sorry, but I would not buy it, even I like the idea of a new mixer.

[Murf]

To be honest, it looks terrible to me. Sorry, but I would not buy it, even I like the idea of a new mixer.

Thanks for being honest, but that is not how it is going to finally look

Not the final colors
Not the final Knobs
Not the final buttons (by far)
Not the final slider
Not the final VU meters

[Murf]

Could you do cv for the volume? so it could be used as a vca.

Yes CV on as much as I can fit on the back panel.

Wooooaahh I am gonna have to reneg on this!!!
No way in hell I am gonna fit a cv for every knob per channel on the back panel

I can maybe do 6 per channel assuming I stick to 3U.
So Bass, trble, Pan, Level, and aux 4 and aux 8 because they have the prefade options

[selig]

…Not even sure what the actual use is beyond the currently available mixers...

I really like the idea of large vertical faders/meters. All I’m thinking now is physical position and features, and a way to differentiate from what is already available. And also what is actually wanted, of course, all crammed together in a way that is still comfortable and inviting. A tall order indeed, but I like a little “outside the box” thinking here!

Your last comment is important IMO - what is the actual use case beyond the currently available mixers?
What are the important functions, not features. There is “what it does”, and there is “how it does it”. I’m still not sure we have any consensus (or I’ve missed it, quite possibly) on “what it does” and have (like my mockups) moved on to “how it does it”, possibly prematurely? Asking as a question because I’m honestly not sure…

What it does:
Is this just a mixer to fit between the Line Mixer and the 14:2 Mixer?
Does this mixer need to be able to accommodate 10 channels of ReDrums outputs?
Is this mixer primarily about providing more sends per channel on a compact mixer?
Does the overall size need to kept to a certain rack height?

For any of the above questions, there are multiple paths forward to any potential solution. And no single solution will please everyone! But I’m not clear, at least inside my head(!), on the “what it does” question. I guess I need to re-read this thread and collect my thoughts (not an easy thing to collect). Or maybe I just need another cup of coffee this morning…

[selig]

I am sure Selig would agree, but connecting multiple devices introduces one cycle of buffer latency between every stage, whereas in one RE that is avoided.

That was always my assumption, but it doesn't appear to be consistent. I can run four Line mixers serially, followed by four Selig Gains (8 devices total) on a parallel channel, invert the polarity and you get a perfect null. So simply chaining legacy or REs serially does not add batch delay (assuming devices used have no built in latency).

[edit: there is also no batch delay when chaining three 14:2 mixers in series…interesting]

And if that IS the case, then I have another solution in mind, but will take a minute to clarify and create a quick mockup…

[jam-s]

Here is a quickly thrown together 3U version.
I didnt put much effort in since it is probably gonna change so much anyway
Mostly got rid of the smaller knobs and made a bit more room
I will start on the signal routing now since all the UI elements I will need are there (except maybe PAN width knobs ...)
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mix82_front_3u.PNG

I think it's an improvement. Now the knobs of the different sends and their corresponding return should get some colour coding. Maybe following a nice sunset theme of colours would work out nicely.