Hey Joey, thanks for coming back in here, and thanks for your words. You do a lot for RT and you are appreciated.
joeyluck wrote: ↑
22 May 2020
I'm only trying to help by pointing out concerns of having a pinned post with a list, which would be presented in what could be perceived as official.
I totally get that. Perhaps pinning it was way out of line and I should have discussed it with the other mods. Kind of a "my bad" thing there, I think. Sorry about that. I certainly don't speak for anybody but myself, and pinned threads should have the support of the community and mod team.
And after all, this thread was born out of another thread, in which it was said, "developers need to be publicly shamed." I appreciate you all and what this thread could be. And I'm a big fan of challism
and I know we all can be passionate or upset about different things, so I'm only trying to help guide some of that.
Hey, wait is that a wink or a smile? ha ha
This idea has been floating around for a while, or at least it seems that way to me. I remember seeing it in a thread or two over the past few weeks (or is it months - I've lost track of time as I've gotten older). So it wasn't exactly born from that last thread, but perhaps it was the catalist to get it started.
As for the comment, yes, I did say that, and it appears to have become my own public shame. I picked the wrong choice of words. Shame was the wrong word to use in that thread. I say plenty of stupid shit off the cuff. I'll own that. I get that it sounds kind of bad, but it didn't come out exactly the way I meant it. f you read further down in that thread, I explained the idea that a dev having their name on such a list would be a shameful thing (or I would think it would make them feel a bit embarrassed, and might motivate them to fix their bugs). So I did mean it in a way to motivate them, not so much shame them, and certainly not talk a bunch of trash about them.
RANT WARNING: I absolutely love Reason. It's been a big part of my life for, what, 20 years now? Since version 1. Hell, I used to play with Rebirth back before that. So I wouldn't mean them any harm. That being said, I don't understand why they won't fix their buggy REs. There are a LOT of bugs. And it makes me mad they wont fix them. It's like Microsoft not fixing security issues with Windows 10. I'm not talking about WIndows XP or 7. Those aren't even sold by Microsoft anymore, so it's understandable that the support has stopped for those products. But RS is still selling their REs with known bugs. It just seems wrong to me.
Beyond having solid verification of bugs, I simply noted that I feel the list needs to be well kept and comprehensive.
I completely agree. And I don't think it will be that hard. This community loves this kind of "work" anyway, don't we?
But then there's another layer where folks apparently want the list to only involve products that they interpret and determine to be abandoned...so then there's posts referencing personal email messages and all the different interpretations of that...
I feel like having a list claiming that these REs have bugs or are abandoned can easily be a misrepresentation, because the viewer is very likely not going to see most of the REs that could be on the list (because the people participating simply don't own them or know about them). If it's not constantly kept going and becomes stale and then sits there with only a handful of devs and bugs singled out, that is a misrepresentation and unfair. So I'm not just talking about closing reports when I talk about upkeep.
Those are all good and valid concerns. We can hammer those out on this thread "before we begin" - I know, we should have hammered them out before we began. I'm a bull in a China shop, sometimes. Your comment about this thread being akin to an RE full of bugs... HA HA HA, had me dying!
We need to put together our guidelines, for sure. I think we can all agree that Hamu products won't be updated again, right? So those are essentially abandoned. But do they have known bugs? I don't remember ever hearing about them, if they do. So abandoned REs shouldn't be the focus here. The list should only focus on bugs. Abandoned or not, does it have known bugs that affect the functionality of the device? Has the dev been notified and given the chance to correct it? Etc... There should be a vetting process.
If this project turns out to be a big mess or a mistake, we have that delete button; it can always be taken down. And if it isn't kept up to date, we can (and should) take it down. You're right, it needs to be kept up to date or it isn't fair to the devs. We need to make sure we are fair to the devs.
As far as the REs who don't have any bug reports on the list due to nobody using the RE or knowing much about that RE, we can't do much about that. I have 2 ideas about that. 1) It's unlikely the RE will have many people interested in buying it, 2) we can put some kind of disclaimer at the beginning which explains that there are bugs in all software, and this is by no means a full and comprehensive list... bla bla bla.
I don't think it's impossible to manage. I only wanted to point out the attention to detail I feel would be necessary. I also think that if you open it up to all bugs and steer the thread's attention towards helping developers as well as users, that the energy will be in a better spot, and can move away from the initial motivation of "public shaming."
More mentions of public shaming. OK, OK, I'm feeling some public shame now.
It just came out the wrong way, kind of like my cousin did at grandma's funeral.
I want this to be a positive project which will, hopefully, encourage devs to update their REs and also give potential buyers the heads up on some REs which have issues.