PMS-20 Analog Filter. Is it worth getting?

[TritoneAddiction]

So unfortunately I used my trial a long time ago. And it's only recently that I've started taking an interest in filters and analog type of synth emulations so I don't trust my old judgement on this one.
I just tried the other two filters in the Filter Classics bundle. They were alright but I don't think I'll use them that much to honest. But I suspect this is the filter of the three that I'm most interested in.
I do like the demos in the Shop.

I have some plans to start a type of analog inspired project using synths like Viking-1, Legend, Red70, Ivoks, Kraft. So I'm thinking it could be a good thing to get a good analog sounding filter to complement the synths.

In your opinion Is it worth spending €29.00 on? I won't wait for a potential sale, because the inspiration for this project is here now.

(Btw I'm not interested in going the VST route atm, so please don't make any VST suggestions)

[Loque]

Its a good one. I use it, when i need a smooth filter sound with a touch of analog "drive". It does not have that "bite" in the resonance.

The other two are usefull here and there. The Acid has a quite nice resonance, that works good here and there. The multimode is good for some sound shaping. But tbh, i most of the time reach for a simple EQ and/or parallel saturation chain with EQ to exactly shape the sound i want. But for a quick check, they are ok. PMS is quite unique, like the other ones.

You can also check out F16, which has a nice "bite" and Synapse filter for some analog drive with a bit dull character and a singing resonance.

[MrFigg]

I was going to say F-16 too. My favourite by far.

[TritoneAddiction]

Ok. I didn't even know F-16 existed. Guess I'll have to try it out.

I have the Synapse AF-4 Analog Filter btw.

[TritoneAddiction]

Its a good one. I use it, when i need a smooth filter sound with a touch of analog "drive". It does not have that "bite" in the resonance.

Good to know.

[MrFigg]

Ok. I didn't even know F-16 existed. Guess I'll have to try it out.

I have the Synapse AF-4 Analog Filter btw.

Look at this first. F16 included.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... -system-i/

[EdGrip]

Also try out the different kiloHearts filters, and the AirRaid Audio filters.
I like PMS-20 a lot, as you've probably noticed, and reach for it a lot - not just as a filter, but as saturation.
I use the other two less - Ladder when I just wanna mess with a sound and see what happens (the stereo effects can be fun, and you have audio-rate modulation on the back panel too.)

Acid is a bit tricky - I've had the best results with it by avoiding the built-in envelope follower, and operating it directly via CV from an Envelope CV out. Add distortion. It's not definitive 303 but used that way, it's a fun sound.

[Boombastix]

F-16 drive is really good. You do have a drive in Thors filters too (route in audio). You can use Legends filter as well (route in audio).
kHs filter is great for sweeps on a track as it don't kill the bass and volume when you add resonance. F-16 has a setting for that too.

[Socram]

I'm a huge fan of PMS-20, really love the character it imparts through saturation, always love the way it sounds. The filtering itself sounds excellent as well.

[challism]

I've got PMS20 and F16. I like PMS20, it's got a great sound and I like its distortion, but i think F16 covers way more ground (16 filter modes). PMS has high and low pass and that's it. F16 is way more versatile.

Don't forget the on-board filters in the VK1 and Ivoks, which can be used on audio input (and Legend as mentioned above). I'm not sure if your other synths have the audio input feature, but those filters shouldn't be dismissed.

[TritoneAddiction]

You can use Legends filter as well (route in audio).

Hmm. That would be cool. But I don't know how to do that. I'm absolutely retarded when it comes to these things, not kidding. How exactly, and I literally mean EXACTLY do I connect an instrument so that I can use Legends filter on it? I would need a step by step manual, with the same words that are being used in Reason. Yep it's that bad. Tbh I'm almost afraid to ask for help with these things because usually when people try to explain anything technical, I still don't understand and I just end up feeling even more retarded than before.

Let's say I've created a mix channel with Dr Octo Rex.
Dr Octo Rex is routed from its Main Output to the Mix channels Input. This is where I'm at. What's the next step routing wise?

[TritoneAddiction]

Ok. I didn't even know F-16 existed. Guess I'll have to try it out.

I have the Synapse AF-4 Analog Filter btw.

Look at this first. F16 included.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... -system-i/

Thanks for the tip, but I'll stick to trying out the F-16 filter. Read my reply to Bombastic and you'll quickly understand why.
Even though I already knew how I would feel, I tried to watch a video on the Polymodular System, just in case my gut feeling was wrong. It wasn't. I'm two minutes in and my head is already hurting. Not for me.

[EdGrip]

You can route audio through VK-2's filter too.

[eXode]

If you want filters you should have a look at Etch Red. If I remember correctly, the "Fatty" filter is based on the Korg MS-20 filter.

EDIT:
The Fatty filter in ETCH is based on an OTA Sallen-Key filter, basically the same type of filter as the MS-10, and first revision of the MS-20. According to the Etch Operation Manual (page 11).

[MrFigg]

Look at this first. F16 included.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... -system-i/

Thanks for the tip, but I'll stick to trying out the F-16 filter. Read my reply to Bombastic and you'll quickly understand why.
Even though I already knew how I would feel, I tried to watch a video on the Polymodular System, just in case my gut feeling was wrong. It wasn't. I'm two minutes in and my head is already hurting. Not for me.

Don't know if you misunderstood. What I meant is F-16 is included in the Polymodular bundle. That bundle costs the same as the PMS-20 filter so for the same money you get a whole load of extra stuff. Maybe you already saw that though.

[TritoneAddiction]

Thanks for the tip, but I'll stick to trying out the F-16 filter. Read my reply to Bombastic and you'll quickly understand why.
Even though I already knew how I would feel, I tried to watch a video on the Polymodular System, just in case my gut feeling was wrong. It wasn't. I'm two minutes in and my head is already hurting. Not for me.

Don't know if you misunderstood. What I meant is F-16 is included in the Polymodular bundle. That bundle costs the same as the PMS-20 filter so for the same money you get a whole load of extra stuff. Maybe you already saw that though.

Yeah I understood that. It was just the "extra stuff" that gave me a headache. The whole modular/routing/CV thing just doesn't click with how my brain works. I try to avoid that as much as possible. I pretty much only turn the rack for the occasional Pulsar lfo effect and also when I need to use Carve EQ Ducker. But that's it.
It was a good suggestion, it just wasn't for me. But I'll definitely take your advice on checking out the F-16 filter. I've downloaded a couple of other filters that has been mentioned in this thread also. So I'll compare and test them out for a couple of days and see where I end up.

Thanks for taking time to respond and make suggestions. It's appreciated.

[MrFigg]

Don't know if you misunderstood. What I meant is F-16 is included in the Polymodular bundle. That bundle costs the same as the PMS-20 filter so for the same money you get a whole load of extra stuff. Maybe you already saw that though.

Yeah I understood that. It was just the "extra stuff" that gave me a headache. The whole modular/routing/CV thing just doesn't click with how my brain works. I try to avoid that as much as possible. Yes I'm weird, I know.
It was a good suggestion, it just wasn't for me. But I'll definitely take your advice on checking out the F-16 filter. I've downloaded a couple of other filters that has been mentioned in this thread also. So I'll compare and test them out for a couple of days and see where I end up.

Thanks for taking time to respond and make suggestions. It's appreciated.

Ok...just one more thing though. I don't understand the whole modular thing either and have no idea how the other devices work. BUT...it comes with a load of combi patches so you just load 'em up and use them ready made and don't have to sit there for hours in tears.

[TritoneAddiction]

Yeah I understood that. It was just the "extra stuff" that gave me a headache. The whole modular/routing/CV thing just doesn't click with how my brain works. I try to avoid that as much as possible. Yes I'm weird, I know.
It was a good suggestion, it just wasn't for me. But I'll definitely take your advice on checking out the F-16 filter. I've downloaded a couple of other filters that has been mentioned in this thread also. So I'll compare and test them out for a couple of days and see where I end up.

Thanks for taking time to respond and make suggestions. It's appreciated.

Ok...just one more thing though. I don't understand the whole modular thing either and have no idea how the other devices work. BUT...it comes with a load of combi patches so you just load 'em up and use them ready made and don't have to sit there for hours in tears.

Ok. Didn't know that.

[challism]

The whole modular/routing/CV thing just doesn't click with how my brain works. I try to avoid that as much as possible. I pretty much only turn the rack for the occasional Pulsar lfo effect and also when I need to use Carve EQ Ducker. But that's it.
It was a good suggestion, it just wasn't for me. But I'll definitely take your advice on checking out the F-16 filter. I've downloaded a couple of other filters that has been mentioned in this thread also. So I'll compare and test them out for a couple of days and see where I end up.

I don't mean any disrespect, TritoneAddiction, because I have a lot of respect for you and your music.... that being said, it blows my mind that there are Reason users who don't flip the rack and go crazy with all that stuff on the back. I think that is Reason's biggest draw (draw of the DAW). So, what is/was it that attracted you to Reason? For me, it was and is 100% the use of the virtual studio rack.

[TritoneAddiction]

The whole modular/routing/CV thing just doesn't click with how my brain works. I try to avoid that as much as possible. I pretty much only turn the rack for the occasional Pulsar lfo effect and also when I need to use Carve EQ Ducker. But that's it.
It was a good suggestion, it just wasn't for me. But I'll definitely take your advice on checking out the F-16 filter. I've downloaded a couple of other filters that has been mentioned in this thread also. So I'll compare and test them out for a couple of days and see where I end up.

I don't mean any disrespect, TritoneAddiction, because I have a lot of respect for you and your music.... that being said, it blows my mind that there are Reason users who don't flip the rack and go crazy with all that stuff on the back. I think that is Reason's biggest draw (draw of the DAW). So, what is/was it that attracted you to Reason? For me, it was and is 100% the use of the virtual studio rack.

I know it's really weird. I'm not sure I can give you a good answer.
I started with Reaper, downloaded a bunch of synths. Probably used Reaper for like 5-6 months. It worked out ok. I didn't really think about different DAWs much. I was busy writing music.
At the time I shared an appartment with a friend who used Reason. I installed it and learned enough to make music with it. After I'd done a couple of songs with it I just thought that for whatever reason my Reason songs sounded better then my Reaper songs and I contributed that to Reasons devices. So I continued. Also I remember I found Reason visually more appealing than Reaper. And since then my Reason usage has simply continued.

Honestly I don't think about these things too much. Reason can do much more than I'll ever need it to do. So why change? I know how to make the music I want with it. And I've developed a workflow with it. If I need variation I'll buy a new synth, not a new DAW.
I have friends that work with Pro Tools and to me that one just felt like "work". Zero fun. Of course I've seen most of the famous DAWs on youtube at different times. Several of them has this "work" feel, which I find very uninspiring.
I think visually Reason just feels right for me. Shallow I know but it's the truth. The quirky/playful aspects of it appeals to me. I like the system with the rack. Everything sits there in its place and I don't have to deal with those damn floating VST windows.

Well there you have it I guess. I tried it and got stuck with it. And at this point I don't even think about it.

[challism]

I agree, the visual aspect of Reason is a lot more inductive to creativity than all the other DAWs I have seen. It is a fun program and you described it perfectly, as the other DAWs feeling like work. Reason is definitely play.

So to tie my comment back into the original topic, this thread inspired me to pull out PMS-20 and play with it. I'm not a big fan of the resonance on this device, as pointed out above, it really is missing the "bite", but I do love that saturation. I had forgotten how nice its saturation is.

[dvdrtldg]

You can use Legends filter as well (route in audio).

Hmm. That would be cool. But I don't know how to do that. I'm absolutely retarded when it comes to these things, not kidding. How exactly, and I literally mean EXACTLY do I connect an instrument so that I can use Legends filter on it? I would need a step by step manual, with the same words that are being used in Reason. Yep it's that bad. Tbh I'm almost afraid to ask for help with these things because usually when people try to explain anything technical, I still don't understand and I just end up feeling even more retarded than before.

Let's say I've created a mix channel with Dr Octo Rex.
Dr Octo Rex is routed from its Main Output to the Mix channels Input. This is where I'm at. What's the next step routing wise?

1. Stick the Legend in the Insert FX slot

2. Hit Tab to display back of the rack. Make sure Legend's output is going into "From Device" in the Insert FX slot, and Octo Rex's output is going into "Filter Input" on the back of Legend

3. Create a Matrix under Legend in the Insert FX slot, attach Gate & Note from Matrix into Gate & CV on Legend (under "Seq In")

4. Flip the rack back to the front. You'll see the Legend's three oscillators are on, switch them all off

5. See those velocity bars down the bottom of the Matrix? Hit Shift and swipe across them so that they're wide instead of narrow (i.e. playing one continuous note instead of individual notes). Set Resolution to 1/2

6. Hit Play (i.e. Play in the Reason sequencer, or the space bar on your computer). You will now hear your Rex loop playing through Legend's filter. You also have access to the filter envelope, the Noise/Drive/Feedback options in the mixer (next to the filter), as well as the FX and amp controls around the back

To be honest I don't usually bother with routing audio through instruments, because there are so many great standalone FX & filters out there. But The Legend's filter is worth the trouble (Ivoks has a good one too). And I often send audio through Jiggery Pokery's Harmonic Synth and Sononics' Revival, to use their FX sections which are excellent

[TritoneAddiction]

Hmm. That would be cool. But I don't know how to do that. I'm absolutely retarded when it comes to these things, not kidding. How exactly, and I literally mean EXACTLY do I connect an instrument so that I can use Legends filter on it? I would need a step by step manual, with the same words that are being used in Reason. Yep it's that bad. Tbh I'm almost afraid to ask for help with these things because usually when people try to explain anything technical, I still don't understand and I just end up feeling even more retarded than before.

Let's say I've created a mix channel with Dr Octo Rex.
Dr Octo Rex is routed from its Main Output to the Mix channels Input. This is where I'm at. What's the next step routing wise?

1. Stick the Legend in the Insert FX slot

2. Hit Tab to display back of the rack. Make sure Legend's output is going into "From Device" in the Insert FX slot, and Octo Rex's output is going into "Filter Input" on the back of Legend

3. Create a Matrix under Legend in the Insert FX slot, attach Gate & Note from Matrix into Gate & CV on Legend (under "Seq In")

4. Flip the rack back to the front. You'll see the Legend's three oscillators are on, switch them all off

5. See those velocity bars down the bottom of the Matrix? Hit Shift and swipe across them so that they're wide instead of narrow (i.e. playing one continuous note instead of individual notes). Set Resolution to 1/2

6. Hit Play (i.e. Play in the Reason sequencer, or the space bar on your computer). You will now hear your Rex loop playing through Legend's filter. You also have access to the filter envelope, the Noise/Drive/Feedback options in the mixer (next to the filter), as well as the FX and amp controls around the back

To be honest I don't usually bother with routing audio through instruments, because there are so many great standalone FX & filters out there. But The Legend's filter is worth the trouble (Ivoks has a good one too). And I often send audio through Jiggery Pokery's Harmonic Synth and Sononics' Revival, to use their FX sections which are excellent

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

[Boombastix]

You can use Legends filter as well (route in audio).

Hmm. That would be cool. But I don't know how to do that. I'm absolutely retarded when it comes to these things, not kidding. How exactly, and I literally mean EXACTLY do I connect an instrument so that I can use Legends filter on it? I would need a step by step manual, with the same words that are being used in Reason. Yep it's that bad. Tbh I'm almost afraid to ask for help with these things because usually when people try to explain anything technical, I still don't understand and I just end up feeling even more retarded than before.

Let's say I've created a mix channel with Dr Octo Rex.
Dr Octo Rex is routed from its Main Output to the Mix channels Input. This is where I'm at. What's the next step routing wise?

It is actually very easy.
1. Create a Combinator
2. Throw in a synth
3. Throw in Legend
4. Route wires as per pic.
5. Set the Legend POLYPHONY knob to Mono/Ext
6. Turn down Legend three volume knobs (1 per osc). Unless you want Legend to play at the same time, like mix Subtractor with the Legend oscillators.
7. Set the filter and filter env to taste.

X. Now throw on some unusual sound like a piano or a sax, and mix in The Legend Osc, wow. Then throw out Serum for anything bass

Routing.gif (140.8 KiB) Viewed 804 times

[Arjanders]

If you want filters you should have a look at Etch Red. If I remember correctly, the "Fatty" filter is based on the Korg MS-20 filter.

EDIT:
The Fatty filter in ETCH is based on an OTA Sallen-Key filter, basically the same type of filter as the MS-10, and first revision of the MS-20. According to the Etch Operation Manual (page 11).

Ow, didn't know this one existed. Have to try it!