If modular is the future....

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 07 Jan 2020

:?: Why are we not seeing rack extension modules from Reason Studios?
buy BTC

User avatar
xboix
Posts: 251
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 08 Jan 2020

Modular is not the future. Soz.

User avatar
ShelLuser
Posts: 270
Joined: 25 Aug 2019

Post 08 Jan 2020

Well... because RS can only go so deep I guess... I mean, one can easily argue that Reason by itself is a modular setup of its own. And some companies actually try to expand on this concept.. for example how about this one:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... cillators/

Modulation oscillators by jiggery pokery; it's basically a rack extension that's a 'module' which can be used in combination with other rack extensions. Actually one of my favorites for sound design.

And there's always Complex-1! The future is now :puf_bigsmile:
--- :reason:
Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1631
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

We are! We have been for years! They just don't look like Eurorack modules of course. But there are stacks of Rack Extensions that fit the bill;

(NOTE: Obviously not everything on this link fits the bill. But you get the idea ;) )

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... ls&pagex=4

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Faastwalker on 08 Jan 2020, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 6805
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

Modular is an option, not the future and Reason is very modular even it could go a step further.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

Rackman
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Dec 2019

Post 08 Jan 2020

Propellerhead definitely failed to capitalise on the modular aspect of Reason, but I guess it's much harder to sell small modules at massively inflated prices than it is to sell rompers.

Of you want a traditional modular virtualization,look at VCV which is excellent and has a much more vibrant ecosystem around it than the few developers that still make Rack Extensions.

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 3740
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 08 Jan 2020

Modules are just a small part of it.




:)
丰2ॐ

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2354
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

I love modular synths. VCV, Voltage, Complex-1, Reaktor; I could play with that stuff all day! Unfortunately, I can't. And most other people can't either. And so I think that's probably a consideration for RS. Reason already has a LOT more depth than most other DAWs in the routing department. More depth would be great for people who want it, but for the average person who just wants to dive in and make a song it's probably not a priority. And even I'm finding myself hankering for quicker/easier solutions these days. Not because I'm lazy but because time is just at such a premium that when I do get the opportunity to write, I wanna write. Not patch cables. Still I think even as it stands, Reason is increeeedibly powerful. There are tools for jobs I probably don't even know I need to do yet :lol: But most of what I want now is just boring workflow stuff. Any more toys and I really will get nothing done!
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

2017 MBP | 16GB | Steinberg UR44 | Reason 10.4 | Cubase Pro 10.5

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 08 Jan 2020

Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Propellerhead definitely failed to capitalise on the modular aspect of Reason, but I guess it's much harder to sell small modules at massively inflated prices than it is to sell rompers.
:thumbs_up: This answers the question, Thanks.
MrFigg wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Modules are just a small part of it.




:)
you funny guy you.. :roll: :lol:
buy BTC

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8354
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Propellerhead definitely failed to capitalise on the modular aspect of Reason, but I guess it's much harder to sell small modules at massively inflated prices than it is to sell rompers.

Of you want a traditional modular virtualization,look at VCV which is excellent and has a much more vibrant ecosystem around it than the few developers that still make Rack Extensions.
There are technical issues keeping folks (including the Props) from going full on modular in Reason, other than doing it within single devices such as Complex-1. With Complex-1 in mind it would be difficult to say the Props have not at least "tried" to capitalize on the modular trend.
If Props "failed" on any point it would have been way back when Reason was originally created, where they failed to see the new wave of modular gear coming in 20 years… ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

lowtom
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Sep 2017

Post 08 Jan 2020

I would like to see more Rack Extensions from Eurorack world inside Reason. Maybe someday, someone will port all Mutable Instruments stuff. It would be great.
As for cabling on the front panel, I do not like it. Personally I hate spaghetti on real world modules, covering everything.
Cabling on the back of rack is neat. Complex-1 also has great option to hide cables.
:reason: :refill: :re:

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 08 Jan 2020

lowtom wrote:
08 Jan 2020
I would like to see more Rack Extensions from Eurorack world inside Reason. Maybe someday, someone will port all Mutable Instruments stuff. It would be great.
As for cabling on the front panel, I do not like it. Personally I hate spaghetti on real world modules, covering everything.
Cabling on the back of rack is neat. Complex-1 also has great option to hide cables.
I'm right there with you on that! :puf_smile:
buy BTC

Rackman
Posts: 51
Joined: 28 Dec 2019

Post 08 Jan 2020

selig wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Propellerhead definitely failed to capitalise on the modular aspect of Reason, but I guess it's much harder to sell small modules at massively inflated prices than it is to sell rompers.

Of you want a traditional modular virtualization,look at VCV which is excellent and has a much more vibrant ecosystem around it than the few developers that still make Rack Extensions.
There are technical issues keeping folks (including the Props) from going full on modular in Reason, other than doing it within single devices such as Complex-1. With Complex-1 in mind it would be difficult to say the Props have not at least "tried" to capitalize on the modular trend.
If Props "failed" on any point it would have been way back when Reason was originally created, where they failed to see the new wave of modular gear coming in 20 years… ;)
I think the idea that to do modular properly you have to have cables in the front is a misnomer. All the tools are there for Reason to have a great modular ecosystem, but although there are plenty of simple CV utils, REs (for the most part) haven't captured the real beauty of modular which is a variety of interoperable modules that are focussed on doing one (or a small subset) of things really well, or interestingly. There are lots of great oscillators and filters, but other than that the pickings are pretty slim. The noise engineering stuff is great, because they don't try and do everything (or even many things). Compare the list of VCV modules which have blossomed in a really short space of time: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.

I think the missed opportunely is that Propellerhead didn't embrace or encourage it. As I said above, I think this is because they are focussed on big-ticket romplers that maximise profit with minimal development. What is a shame is that 3rd party devs haven't taken much advantage of the absence of competition, but I think that stems from a much bigger problem - lack of confidence in the platform, and (as far as I understand it) a frustrating SDK with few updates. Software development is an expensive business, but I guess it shows what a small ecosystem this is that so few developers have embraced it, and so many have abandoned it.

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 08 Jan 2020

Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020
selig wrote:
08 Jan 2020


There are technical issues keeping folks (including the Props) from going full on modular in Reason, other than doing it within single devices such as Complex-1. With Complex-1 in mind it would be difficult to say the Props have not at least "tried" to capitalize on the modular trend.
If Props "failed" on any point it would have been way back when Reason was originally created, where they failed to see the new wave of modular gear coming in 20 years… ;)
I think the idea that to do modular properly you have to have cables in the front is a misnomer. All the tools are there for Reason to have a great modular ecosystem, but although there are plenty of simple CV utils, REs (for the most part) haven't captured the real beauty of modular which is a variety of interoperable modules that are focussed on doing one (or a small subset) of things really well, or interestingly. There are lots of great oscillators and filters, but other than that the pickings are pretty slim. The noise engineering stuff is great, because they don't try and do everything (or even many things). Compare the list of VCV modules which have blossomed in a really short space of time: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.

I think the missed opportunely is that Propellerhead didn't embrace or encourage it. As I said above, I think this is because they are focussed on big-ticket romplers that maximise profit with minimal development. What is a shame is that 3rd party devs haven't taken much advantage of the absence of competition, but I think that stems from a much bigger problem - lack of confidence in the platform, and (as far as I understand it) a frustrating SDK with few updates. Software development is an expensive business, but I guess it shows what a small ecosystem this is that so few developers have embraced it, and so many have abandoned it.
the truth is hard, in many cases :cry:
buy BTC

kinkujin
Posts: 142
Joined: 01 Mar 2018

Post 08 Jan 2020

I was thinking this the other day when I saw the Korg WaveState announcement and read some threads on it ... as we see the resurgence, and more interest in digital synths are we also simultaneously seeing a faltering interest in modular? I mean, wow, the analog thing just got so huge and took over and suddenly we are seeing alot of digital again, and I'm all for it. More of everything please!

I think the market for music makers is not that big. Then within that is the market for spendy music makers. Then the market within that is spendy music makers that go modular. How long is the current interest going to go on? I think RS hit it about right, keep doing what you're doing, improve on it but don't lose your focus. Complex-1 was "more" modular but still within their focus (at least how I see it) and I think it was a success.

Personally, I don't see modular as the future but as the present and maybe a trend that will soon, if not already, wane. There will still be synths and software and modular, but modular just won't be the THE THING! Just my hobbiest thoughts.

User avatar
Reasonable man
Posts: 485
Joined: 14 Jul 2016

Post 08 Jan 2020

chimp_spanner wrote:
08 Jan 2020
I love modular synths. VCV, Voltage, Complex-1, Reaktor; I could play with that stuff all day! Unfortunately, I can't. And most other people can't either. And so I think that's probably a consideration for RS. Reason already has a LOT more depth than most other DAWs in the routing department. More depth would be great for people who want it, but for the average person who just wants to dive in and make a song it's probably not a priority. And even I'm finding myself hankering for quicker/easier solutions these days. Not because I'm lazy but because time is just at such a premium that when I do get the opportunity to write, I wanna write. Not patch cables. Still I think even as it stands, Reason is increeeedibly powerful. There are tools for jobs I probably don't even know I need to do yet :lol: But most of what I want now is just boring workflow stuff. Any more toys and I really will get nothing done!
I feell like this alot of the time ..not getting enough done. In modular; with all the clock divisons, randomizations, and/or gates, stepped lfo's, sample and holds, euclidian rhythms etc etc it can take a long time to get my head into it and all the concepts that go with it and because alot of it is built on probability and expeimental sequencing/ randomisation etc ...i have to take a step back and and figure out if its really actually musical at all sometimes!. The advantage reason has is that you can go part modular ..freeze ,pause ,mute do more traditional electronic 'composing' as such then try to combine/match the two and mould into a final product as such.... and i think it can be done conviningly enough live with just a midi keyboard. Going fully modular is a big commitment as its harder i think to incorpotate convincing bridge/chorous/transtion sections and returning back and forth again as the music is contintually changing and evolving into new sections ..never to return to previous sections in a structured sense. A detailed plan is definatley required.

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1194
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
07 Jan 2020
:?: Why are we not seeing rack extension modules from Reason Studios?
I’d love to see half rack and 1/4 rack modules. Waiting on Complex-2! Hoping anyway. As others have mentioned though modular is an option... not the future. For people just starting out learning electronic music production looking at a modular would make their head explode, lol.

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 08 Jan 2020

MannequinRaces wrote:
08 Jan 2020
BRIGGS wrote:
07 Jan 2020
:?: Why are we not seeing rack extension modules from Reason Studios?
I’d love to see half rack and 1/4 rack modules. Waiting on Complex-2! Hoping anyway. As others have mentioned though modular is an option... not the future. For people just starting out learning electronic music production looking at a modular would make their head explode, lol.
+1 The future is now. My head already exploded, so I'm used to it. :lol:

I remember showing some friends 'Thor' back in 2009. They freaked out! :shock:

1/4 rack modules would be awesome, as would be Complex-2!!! :puf_smile:
buy BTC

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1194
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
08 Jan 2020
MannequinRaces wrote:
08 Jan 2020

I’d love to see half rack and 1/4 rack modules. Waiting on Complex-2! Hoping anyway. As others have mentioned though modular is an option... not the future. For people just starting out learning electronic music production looking at a modular would make their head explode, lol.
+1 The future is now. My head already exploded, so I'm used to it. :lol:

I remember showing some friends 'Thor' back in 2009. They freaked out! :shock:

1/4 rack modules would be awesome, as would be Complex-2!!! :puf_smile:
When I first bought R4 I had no idea what I was getting myself into, haha. A similar feeling of shock and awe.

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 08 Jan 2020

MannequinRaces wrote:
08 Jan 2020
BRIGGS wrote:
08 Jan 2020


+1 The future is now. My head already exploded, so I'm used to it. :lol:

I remember showing some friends 'Thor' back in 2009. They freaked out! :shock:

1/4 rack modules would be awesome, as would be Complex-2!!! :puf_smile:
When I first bought R4 I had no idea what I was getting myself into, haha. A similar feeling of shock and awe.
:thumbs_up: I know the feeling. I like when you write an awesome track, and wonder how and why it sounds so magical.
buy BTC

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1194
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jan 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
08 Jan 2020
MannequinRaces wrote:
08 Jan 2020

When I first bought R4 I had no idea what I was getting myself into, haha. A similar feeling of shock and awe.
:thumbs_up: I know the feeling. I like when you write an awesome track, and wonder how and why it sounds so magical.
That’s an awesome feeling to have. I normally get that feeling when I listen to some of my older work and I think ‘how on Earth did I write THAT!!’

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8354
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 09 Jan 2020

Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020
I think the idea that to do modular properly you have to have cables in the front is a misnomer. All the tools are there for Reason to have a great modular ecosystem, but although there are plenty of simple CV utils, REs (for the most part) haven't captured the real beauty of modular which is a variety of interoperable modules that are focussed on doing one (or a small subset) of things really well, or interestingly. There are lots of great oscillators and filters, but other than that the pickings are pretty slim. The noise engineering stuff is great, because they don't try and do everything (or even many things). Compare the list of VCV modules which have blossomed in a really short space of time: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.

I think the missed opportunely is that Propellerhead didn't embrace or encourage it. As I said above, I think this is because they are focussed on big-ticket romplers that maximise profit with minimal development. What is a shame is that 3rd party devs haven't taken much advantage of the absence of competition, but I think that stems from a much bigger problem - lack of confidence in the platform, and (as far as I understand it) a frustrating SDK with few updates. Software development is an expensive business, but I guess it shows what a small ecosystem this is that so few developers have embraced it, and so many have abandoned it.
You may have missed the part where I mentioned technical limitations keeping folks from fully embracing what you describe. Nothing more, nothing less IMO. Again, the missed opportunity was back when Reason was designed. The "batch delay" between all devices is but one reason why you can't build true modular systems in the Reason rack, and this affects CV as well as audio. The lack of adjusting the CV rate to allow audio rate modulation is another, which could be worked around by using audio jacks and dropping CV jacks.
My comments had nothing to do with cables on the front, confidence with the platform, etc. One of my very first ideas for Selig Audio way back in 2013 was a modular based system which I've posted here in the past. Others have considered it (and even announced it) then dropped out after researching the subject. This was YEARS ago, btw, not recently. I can't speak for the others, but for me I simply wasn't able to achieve what I wanted with the current limitations in the way Reason passes audio around in the rack, which has nothing to do with the RE SDK, ecosystem, or expense!
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8354
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 09 Jan 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
08 Jan 2020
Rackman wrote:
08 Jan 2020


I think the idea that to do modular properly you have to have cables in the front is a misnomer. All the tools are there for Reason to have a great modular ecosystem, but although there are plenty of simple CV utils, REs (for the most part) haven't captured the real beauty of modular which is a variety of interoperable modules that are focussed on doing one (or a small subset) of things really well, or interestingly. There are lots of great oscillators and filters, but other than that the pickings are pretty slim. The noise engineering stuff is great, because they don't try and do everything (or even many things). Compare the list of VCV modules which have blossomed in a really short space of time: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.

I think the missed opportunely is that Propellerhead didn't embrace or encourage it. As I said above, I think this is because they are focussed on big-ticket romplers that maximise profit with minimal development. What is a shame is that 3rd party devs haven't taken much advantage of the absence of competition, but I think that stems from a much bigger problem - lack of confidence in the platform, and (as far as I understand it) a frustrating SDK with few updates. Software development is an expensive business, but I guess it shows what a small ecosystem this is that so few developers have embraced it, and so many have abandoned it.
the truth is hard, in many cases :cry:
One person's truth is different from another's truth! ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
BRIGGS
Posts: 806
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 09 Jan 2020

selig wrote:
09 Jan 2020
BRIGGS wrote:
08 Jan 2020


the truth is hard, in many cases :cry:
One person's truth is different from another's truth! ;)
Image

You mean 'opinion'.

I was speaking of actual/absolute truth, which is not an opinion.

example: 2+2=4 :lol:
buy BTC

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8354
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 09 Jan 2020

BRIGGS wrote:
09 Jan 2020
selig wrote:
09 Jan 2020


One person's truth is different from another's truth! ;)
Image

You mean 'opinion'.

I was speaking of actual/absolute truth, which is not an opinion.

example: 2+2=4 :lol:
But you quoted an opinion, so I was confused…
;)
Selig Audio, LLC

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], eusti, retreed, TritoneAddiction and 4 guests