ChordLine vs ScaleMatrix vs ChordBank vs Scales&Chords... others

[bieh]

I've trialled Chordbank, Chordline, Delta and ScaleMatrix, and also already owned the non-Player Chordset device and the Noteset Player device designed to go with it. My preferred device is Chordline, primarily for the combination of visuals, the ability to visually select the individual notes to make up all chords in the bank, and the mapping of those chords (up to 35) across all octaves. But I also like the chord recording ability of Chordbank and the way any note in its system can record and play back any chord. So it was a close contest for me. The non-Player Chordset combined with the Noteset Player can achieve something similar to both these devices. ScaleMatrix is a device I didn't like at all - it's not configured in a way that would suit my workflow, but each to their own. While Delta can be used for banks of chords as well, it's not a focused enough device to get my preference in this area. Its specialty is configurability and chaining of different MIDI alterations, but perhaps the cost of that is not to have the clearest possible layout for any of the individual tasks it does.

[MrFigg]

I've trialled Chordbank, Chordline, Delta and ScaleMatrix, and also already owned the non-Player Chordset device and the Noteset Player device designed to go with it. My preferred device is Chordline, primarily for the combination of visuals, the ability to visually select the individual notes to make up all chords in the bank, and the mapping of those chords (up to 35) across all octaves. But I also like the chord recording ability of Chordbank and the way any note in its system can record and play back any chord. So it was a close contest for me. The non-Player Chordset combined with the Noteset Player can achieve something similar to both these devices. ScaleMatrix is a device I didn't like at all - it's not configured in a way that would suit my workflow, but each to their own. While Delta can be used for banks of chords as well, it's not a focused enough device to get my preference in this area. Its specialty is configurability and chaining of different MIDI alterations, but perhaps the cost of that is not to have the clearest possible layout for any of the individual tasks it does.

I’ve got all the players you mentioned as well as ChordSet. Don’t have Delta either. I was really surprised to hear you say Chordset was your favourite. I bought Chordset a while before all the players came out because that functionality had been something I’d been looking for a long time. I thought it was cool with Noteset but was a bit frustrated as Noteset only outputs the notes contained in the chord. That’s us to say three note chord in three note melody out. Then came Enlightenspeed and Tonicmint and that was it. Chordset landed in the unused pile along with index Chord dictionary. Anyway where I wanted to come with all that was after reading your post I’m going to give Chordset another look. Thanks

[bieh]

I've trialled Chordbank, Chordline, Delta and ScaleMatrix, and also already owned the non-Player Chordset device and the Noteset Player device designed to go with it. My preferred device is Chordline, primarily for the combination of visuals, the ability to visually select the individual notes to make up all chords in the bank, and the mapping of those chords (up to 35) across all octaves. But I also like the chord recording ability of Chordbank and the way any note in its system can record and play back any chord. So it was a close contest for me. The non-Player Chordset combined with the Noteset Player can achieve something similar to both these devices. ScaleMatrix is a device I didn't like at all - it's not configured in a way that would suit my workflow, but each to their own. While Delta can be used for banks of chords as well, it's not a focused enough device to get my preference in this area. Its specialty is configurability and chaining of different MIDI alterations, but perhaps the cost of that is not to have the clearest possible layout for any of the individual tasks it does.

I’ve got all the players you mentioned as well as ChordSet. Don’t have Delta either. I was really surprised to hear you say Chordset was your favourite. I bought Chordset a while before all the players came out because that functionality had been something I’d been looking for a long time. I thought it was cool with Noteset but was a bit frustrated as Noteset only outputs the notes contained in the chord. That’s us to say three note chord in three note melody out. Then came Enlightenspeed and Tonicmint and that was it. Chordset landed in the unused pile along with index Chord dictionary. Anyway where I wanted to come with all that was after reading your post I’m going to give Chordset another look. Thanks

Actually Chordline is my favourite. Chordset came out before Players existed, so that's why I had it. But yes, I find both Chordline and Chordbank quicker to use than Chordset. I mainly mentioned Chordset to say its functionality has improved through combination with Noteset, which makes its chords available to any other Players you want to add. For example, you could use Chordset CV-wired to NoteSet on top of, say, Phrase Key Trigged Sequencer. But that's not as good as Chordline on top of Phrase Key Trigged Sequencer.

[MrFigg]

I’ve got all the players you mentioned as well as ChordSet. Don’t have Delta either. I was really surprised to hear you say Chordset was your favourite. I bought Chordset a while before all the players came out because that functionality had been something I’d been looking for a long time. I thought it was cool with Noteset but was a bit frustrated as Noteset only outputs the notes contained in the chord. That’s us to say three note chord in three note melody out. Then came Enlightenspeed and Tonicmint and that was it. Chordset landed in the unused pile along with index Chord dictionary. Anyway where I wanted to come with all that was after reading your post I’m going to give Chordset another look. Thanks

Actually Chordline is my favourite. Chordset came out before Players existed, so that's why I had it. But yes, I find both Chordline and Chordbank quicker to use than Chordset. I mainly mentioned Chordset to say its functionality has improved through combination with Noteset, which makes its chords available to any other Players you want to add. For example, you could use Chordset CV-wired to NoteSet on top of, say, Phrase Key Trigged Sequencer. But that's not as good as Chordline on top of Phrase Key Trigged Sequencer.

Aaa. See that now. Misunderstood.

[Vil]

Just for clarification, ChordLine has no strumming feature.
You could define chords, for each seven white key. This chords could be designed individually, or could be generated by built in tools, for eg from a scale.
But you can define not one, but 5 different chord set (each of them could contains different chords) and you can switch between them with the black keys. This is the ChordLine in nutshell.

The matrix display below the piano key display, and the VMod, VVar and Prob knobs just a small additional feature, but sometimes fun. With these you can choose one velocity mod, velocity variation and probability value from 4 settings. It could sound a little bit complex, but it is more simple, than you think. Probably I have to make a video about it (sooner or later)

[bidaar]

so if i have scale and chords and other Reasonstudios players , and scalematrix . would u suggest buying chordline or chordbank or both . also do u think scalematrix and chordline are so much alike to have both ?

[Iggster]

I’d also be interested to know the answer to this?

[Iggster]

Also do any of these players actually monitor and display (both visually and in words) the chord you’re playing in real-time (or what it’s been converted to)? Thanks

[bieh]

I think it's worth having Chordline whether or not you have Scalematrix. And personally I feel the most important factors for deciding whether to get Chordline or Chordbank are as follows:

Prefer to play chords, hear them and record what you hear into each slot? Get Chordbank.
Prefer to select each note of your chords on a visual keyboard map instead? Get Chordline.
Prefer to set one chord to play back from each of 24 keyboard keys (2 octaves)? Get Chordbank.
Prefer to use one octave of white keys (7 keys) that can each play back 5 different chords selected by pressing the black keys, and be able to change the octave of these chords by playing them on any octave of the white keys? Choose Chordline.

There are plenty of other differences between them, but these were the main ones affecting convenience of workflow for me, and I chose Chordline. I'd like to have both.

[bieh]

Also do any of these players actually monitor and display (both visually and in words) the chord you’re playing in real-time (or what it’s been converted to)? Thanks

Chordline doesn't display played chords in realtime, but that's easily solved by sticking some kind of note monitor device under it (Note Monitor, Denote, Selig NoteView, Chord Detector). Chordbank doesn't display realtime chords on a keyboard representation, but does show you the note names in a list as you play each chord. The Reason Studios' device shows played notes in real time, and so does ScaleMatrix. NoteSet shows one octave of the chord-based notes it's conforming MIDI input to (in some modes). Chord Detector by Static Cling is a great little device to add to the Player stack if you want to see the notes and the chord names at the same time.

[bieh]

The matrix display below the piano key display, and the VMod, VVar and Prob knobs just a small additional feature, but sometimes fun. With these you can choose one velocity mod, velocity variation and probability value from 4 settings. It could sound a little bit complex, but it is more simple, than you think. Probably I have to make a video about it (sooner or later)

Hey Vil, have you ever thought about creating an extra Modifier line on Chordline for note octaves? That way users could automate an "octave" modifier knob to get different inversions of chords. And they'd have a lot more control over configuring the inversions than users get from something like the Reason chords player. I guess it would have to work a little differently from the existing velocity/probably setup - maybe each knob setting could store an octave setting in the matrix, instead of referring to settings on knobs on the right. So you'd see the matrix squares changing as you moved the knob. Just an idea.

[Vil]

Hey Vil, have you ever thought about creating an extra Modifier line on Chordline for note octaves? That way users could automate an "octave" modifier knob to get different inversions of chords. And they'd have a lot more control over configuring the inversions than users get from something like the Reason chords player. I guess it would have to work a little differently from the existing velocity/probably setup - maybe each knob setting could store an octave setting in the matrix, instead of referring to settings on knobs on the right. So you'd see the matrix squares changing as you moved the knob. Just an idea.

Not a bad idea, and you are right, this is not fit into the current "lane concept" of ChordLine. Not impossible, but lot of optimization required for this, and the result rack extension will not be compatible with the current ChordLine, so it have to be a brand new device..... (In the shop, all new version have to be compatible with the previous versions)
As a workaround, you could use the chord sets for achieving this. Each chord set could be a different inversion of your original chords, and you could use the black keys to switching between them, instead of a knob.

[Vil]

Also do any of these players actually monitor and display (both visually and in words) the chord you’re playing in real-time (or what it’s been converted to)? Thanks

Chordline doesn't display played chords in realtime, but that's easily solved by sticking some kind of note monitor device under it (Note Monitor, Denote, Selig NoteView, Chord Detector). Chordbank doesn't display realtime chords on a keyboard representation, but does show you the note names in a list as you play each chord. The Reason Studios' device shows played notes in real time, and so does ScaleMatrix. NoteSet shows one octave of the chord-based notes it's conforming MIDI input to (in some modes). Chord Detector by Static Cling is a great little device to add to the Player stack if you want to see the notes and the chord names at the same time.

In the ChordLine, on the Navigator screen, you could see an overview of all chords of your chordsets, and the triggered chords always highlighted...

[Iggster]

Thanks guys. I think I’ve already made my mind up on chordbank so the other choice is either Chordline or Scalematrix. It would be both if there was a package deal but not sure I can justify buying all three!

Is Scalematrix not just Chordline on steroids? I like the look of the strummer but taking that out of the equation are these not essentially the same? I also use PH scales and chords so does Chordline and Scalesmatrix work in a similar way? (I like to add Scales and Chords over the top of riffs to re-key things not just chords!).

I would love to take them all for a spin but looks like the May Madness sale may end before I get a chance!

[bieh]

In the ChordLine, on the Navigator screen, you could see an overview of all chords of your chordsets, and the triggered chords always highlighted...

Oh yes! Apologies for that omission from my little summary. I was selling my favourite chord device short!

[bieh]

Not a bad idea, and you are right, this is not fit into the current "lane concept" of ChordLine. Not impossible, but lot of optimization required for this, and the result rack extension will not be compatible with the current ChordLine, so it have to be a brand new device..... (In the shop, all new version have to be compatible with the previous versions)
As a workaround, you could use the chord sets for achieving this. Each chord set could be a different inversion of your original chords, and you could use the black keys to switching between them, instead of a knob.

I see. And yes, even if it could be compatible I suppose it would be unnecessary work to add that feature, considering the number of chords Chordline can store.

[bieh]

Is Scalematrix not just Chordline on steroids? I like the look of the strummer but taking that out of the equation are these not essentially the same?

No, I would say even taking the strummer out of the equation, they're still very different in the way they organise chords. If for some reason you can't trial them, I'd recommend seeing as many videos as you can on these.

[NDKay]

Did i understand correctly, that Chordbank is the only device which will store a just played chord ?
So that you can play this chord by just a press of one key ?

In Chordline you can programm the keys to play a chord you want, but it wont store a just played one, right ?


I think some kind of List would be great for this kind of players, like for the different reason versions and whats included in which version.
Something like this ( could only be good visible on computer monitors)



Feature ------------------------------------------ / Chordbank ------/ ---- Chordline -------/------ Scalematrix ----/------ Scales and Chords

Chord Library --------------------------------- Yes , x scales ------ Yes, x scales --------- Yes, x scales ------------ Yes, x scales
store "just" played chords ------------------------ Yes ----------------------No -------------------------- No -------------------------- No
programm chords to keys ------------------------ Yes -------------------- Yes ------------------------- Yes -------------------------- Yes
programm chords to indiv. keys --------------- Yes -------------------- Yes ---------------------- (no ? )------------------------- No
a
s
o


(x standing for the number of scales; I dont know if what i put down is right, pls correct me if i am wrong)

I dont know if Delta should be included, because from what i have seen, Delta "can" everything( maybe besides the chordlibrarys) or not ?

[Lov2sing]

I tried all you mentioned and Delta and they are good; however, it’s f you want to play in a real way without deep programming, then Scaler 2 is the better choice. IMO

[NDKay]

iirc, i read something about scaler2 not working in reason ( or a hassel to set up) or something ?

i will take a look at some vids. thx

[DaveyG]

iirc, i read something about scaler2 not working in reason ( or a hassel to set up) or something ?

i will take a look at some vids. thx

Yeah, Scaler generates MIDI and Reason does not support VSTS that do that. There is a kooky workaround involving midi loopbacks and stuff but your best bet is to get a baseball bat and go round to the RS offices and refuse to leave until they have sorted it.

[NDKay]

Yeah, Scaler generates MIDI and Reason does not support VSTS that do that. There is a kooky workaround involving midi loopbacks and stuff but your best bet is to get a baseball bat and go round to the RS offices and refuse to leave until they have sorted it.

how is it going for you with the "baseball bat in office" workaround ? Is it worth doing ?


Joke aside, it sounds like there is no information from RS about that matter? Like they´re workin on that or something ?

Is Scaler2 so much ahead of the players ?

[Lov2sing]

Scaler 1 was a MIDI nightmare but the version 2 I fine works in Reason. They even made it as an effect. IMO it’s worth checking out.