Scenic!!!

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TritoneAddiction
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Post 28 Sep 2019

So I've scrolled through all the patches and tried some minor tweaking here and there. Honestly I think this is a pretty cool synth. Great for ambiences in particular. Lots of nice patches. It complements the other Reason synths well.
The demos don't do it justice imo. Make sure you at least try it out before making any judgements.
Is it worth 99 bucks? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but it's still pretty nice.

The only downside for me is that some patches eat a lot of DSP.

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gullum
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Post 28 Sep 2019

TritoneAddiction wrote:
28 Sep 2019
So I've scrolled through all the patches and tried some minor tweaking here and there. Honestly I think this is a pretty cool synth. Great for ambiences in particular. Lots of nice patches. It complements the other Reason synths well.
The demos don't do it justice imo. Make sure you at least try it out before making any judgements.
Is it worth 99 bucks? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but it's still pretty nice.

The only downside for me is that some patches eat a lot of DSP.
I have tried it I like it but I don't like it $99 enough to buy it now in a sale in the future probable

DougalDarkly
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Post 28 Sep 2019

Does anybody else think that RS might be trolling us with the name though?

Scenic Hybrid Instrument ?

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joeyluck
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Post 28 Sep 2019

I think something that Reason Studios should look at is Roli's Equator. Similar in that it uses two sample playback modules (it also incorporates synthesis), and focuses on interesting sounds and performance. There is a huge focus on performance and interesting sound creation with Equator.

Equator is a quality instrument. Excellent samples, great interface, amazing patches, and of course MPE support. There is no feature better for performance. The sounds and patches are even more suited for score writing, if that's the aim. Great of course for a multitude of things. Beautiful sounding stuff.

I recommend everybody check out Equator. And pick up a Seaboard or Block which are 20% off currently. You don't get the full advantages of MPE support in Reason...maybe at some point? But you can put it to use in that other DAW you own or have been toying with. Equator also works in standalone.

I'm sure there's some other plugins to compare to, but this one in particular I find most inspiring and like these sounds the most.






Carpainter
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Post 28 Sep 2019

kuhliloach wrote:
27 Sep 2019
Via the YouTube videos I'm watching I think this a great sounding instrument! However I'd prefer this not be bundled to core software upgrades. This should be sold separately as an option because at the end of the day its just an instrument and in no way "necessary".
While I agree that Scenic isn't a 'necessary' instrument (it does nothing that you can't already do with stock devices), I disagree with the sentiment that Propellerhead shouldn't include instruments in their upgrades. The main reason I skipped multiple upgrades is because of Propellerhead's penchant for locking their best instruments behind the Rack Extension paywall and packing their upgrades with novelty effects and devices. I mean, Europa was the first synth they included in an upgrade since Thor. That's pretty crazy when you consider the evolution that software synths went through during that decade.

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Iapetus 9
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Post 29 Sep 2019

So...99 bucks for a granular rompler with a snappy verb? Meh. I had high hopes for this one. Wake me up when I can import samples.
38L > 51D every time.

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aeox
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Post 29 Sep 2019

I think I would pay 50 for just the reverb unit alone :D
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fceramic
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Post 29 Sep 2019

None of the presets were inspiring or impressive. It just sounds grainy, thin and compressed. Try comparing this to something like Omnisphere or a nice cinematic Kontakt library. I think Grain sounds great, so I'm not sure what's going on here.

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kuhliloach
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Post 29 Sep 2019

Carpainter wrote:
28 Sep 2019
kuhliloach wrote:
27 Sep 2019
Via the YouTube videos I'm watching I think this a great sounding instrument! However I'd prefer this not be bundled to core software upgrades. This should be sold separately as an option because at the end of the day its just an instrument and in no way "necessary".
While I agree that Scenic isn't a 'necessary' instrument (it does nothing that you can't already do with stock devices), I disagree with the sentiment that Propellerhead shouldn't include instruments in their upgrades. The main reason I skipped multiple upgrades is because of Propellerhead's penchant for locking their best instruments behind the Rack Extension paywall and packing their upgrades with novelty effects and devices. I mean, Europa was the first synth they included in an upgrade since Thor. That's pretty crazy when you consider the evolution that software synths went through during that decade.
I guess my feeling is about how Reason is building value. New instruments just don't represent any value to me. In fact I feel over saturated and overwhelmed by too many instruments and sounds. I think we can all agree there is no shortage of instruments and effects out there at this point. What is there a shortage of? Sleek raw competitive sequencing functionality in Reason. If seeing Ableton on the Reason home page isn't writing on the wall I'm not sure what is.

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ShelLuser
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Post 30 Sep 2019

I don't necessarily intent to drag this on but in full honesty I did feel addressed because I too outed some very skeptic and negative comments...
seqoi wrote:
26 Sep 2019
If it was positive you wouldn't see so much negativity. The reason for the current "negativity" is that most of the forum people are negative. It is as simple as that.
Err, no? I can't speak for the others (obviously) but the reason for my personal negativity regarding Scenic (ontopic) and Reason 11 as a whole (offtopic for this thread) is because I honestly don't like it. Scenic doesn't add anything I can already do and to add insult to injury it also doesn't make things a lot easier (which was the case with Kong vs. Thor percussion). As to Reason 11, I whined in another thread ;)

But my negativity has nothing to do with other posters, this is simply my opinion. And for the record: I love Reason 10 even more these days.
seqoi wrote:
26 Sep 2019
But i guess it's normal these days. Everyone think they are entitled to complain because there is not feature XY which they expected because putothercompanyhere has it. But instead of doing music they piss here - hence it's negative.
No offense but in my opinion that's the easy argument.. Blame it on the complainers because obviously there can't be anything wrong with the product itself... Instead of trying to woosh this all away I think it might be useful to look at the arguments that people are giving. Sure... the general comments as "It sucks, lolz!" can be easily disregarded (those would account for negativity itself) but there are also plenty of users who don't just whine; they can back up their whining with solid argumentation as well. You may not agree with said arguments which is only fair, each to their own, but that doesn't make them "blinded whiners" who just follow the herd (I know that's not exactly what you said, but... this is my impression of the whole thing).

There is a difference here. IMO of course.
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chaosroyale
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Post 30 Sep 2019

As a fan of the features and sound quality of many of Reasons devices, I would go even further than most of the naysayers here.

I think devices like Scenic, and -ugh- Rytmik, actually decrease the perceived value of Reason. They make Reason look like it's an amateur toy instead of a serious music production tool.

Grain and Europa are both better (in terms of useability and overall sound) than most of their direct rivals in other DAWs, and really help sell Reason as a sound design toolbox.

Scenic comes along looking like a cheesy lower-quality ripoff of a heavyocity library and now it's being used like a 'flagship' device. If I was seeing Reason for the first time, I would think "wtf, this is their best device??"

I'm glad it's not one of the standard rack devices, but using it as the "face" of Reason 11 feels really off to me. Even Reason 10 with all the shitty romplers had the sense to put Europa front and center.

rorystorm
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Post 30 Sep 2019

I've spent a coupla daysplaying with it so here's my two cents' worth, if that's at all interesting.

Cons (actually mostly small potatoes).

1. I want to RTFM, so why can't I? I've read plenty of bitching about this and it's justified. It's bizarre to front up a new device but have no instructions for it so the user's basically figuring it all about by themselves. I mean, is it that hard to prepare a manual in time for the release? In my other life I'm a technical writer - pay me some bucks and I'll do one for you in a coupla days.

2. So is there any way that the 'macros' do not equal rotary knobs? Because otherwise why not call them that. It took me an embarrassingly long time to realise simply because of the name. Consistent terminology is not a bad thing.

3. I'm fifty fifty on the interface, particularly the dial at the front. I mean it's pretty but it's also essentially useless as it can't be automated or remote controlled. Why not have the macro knobs on the front page? (as that's where automation and remote controlling are set).

Having said that, although there's a bit of click-clicking around, I actually quite like having the engine/inserts/master effects broken down in easy to use separate pages rather than one massive eyewateringly complicated splurge of hard to follow detailing.

4. The insert fx are for the most part standard and generic af. The chorus is ghastly, the delay is tepid.

5. Why, oh wtf why, if I adjust the balance between engine A and engine B, does it also pan the isolated signal to the left or right. (Although maybe I'm missing something here and/or doing it wrong because I'm actually retarded).

6. Okay, now my one major negative comment........

The back is a freakn wasteland. Two cv inputs for routing, the standard gate/note/wheel inputs, and one audio output. The only good thing is there's two audio inputs for the insert fx sections.

But given the number of parameters involved I'd expect much more to play with. Eg if the macros are so important why don't they have dedicated cv controls? Why isn't there an option for individual audio outs for the waveforms if you want to process them with further devices separately ? Why aren't breakout outputs like in Kong or the Echo so you add a pulverisor or a pump or some shit in between the insert and master fx? (especially given the insert fx are mostly like used bathwater). Why is there no opportunity for cv output for, say, the Pulse patterns? And so forth.

[Sidebar - on the topic of modulation, can I just say the internal modulation sources are pretty sub-par - the most standard of lfo shapes, and just envelopes for the filter and amp. Again seeing as there's quite a lot of knobs on the thing I'd like a bit more complexity - greater number of lfo shapes and at least one mod envelope would be good. Thor, which is old and dusty and looks wistfully at the new kids on the scene, has better modulation capabilities].

Anyway. Doesn't it like Props has been moving toward instruments that are intended to be used as a single device with onboard effects, all in its own box with as little cv action as possible. This is totally counter intuitive to me because the whole point of Reason vs prettymucheveryotherdawthereis is Reason's modularity and the fact you should be able to arse round connecting everything to everything else. So why produce all these instruments which seem designed to limit this experience, given it's the program's actual selling point? (it's certainly not the Cold War era sequencer, that's for sure).

Contrast this to, I dunno, say the Legend for example which has cv inputs for Africa and maybe some left over for Italy and the south for France. Parsec: cv wasteland. Layers: cv wasteland. Complex: great, but still a cv wasteland. So much missed opportunity. Come on.

On the other hand, the positives.

1. The actual waveforms themselves range from pretty good to farkin excellent. That balances out the drawbacks in terms of fiddleaboutabilty. The koto sound for eg is fantastic.

2. Ah, the reverb. The master reverb makes up for the limitations of the other onboard effects like a bastard. In fact I'd probably mostly just use Scenic just as reverb device and nothing else - so props devs if you're reading this your next wee task will be to release a device which is just Scenic's reverb engine so it doesn't suck up so much cpu.

3. I really like the Pulse modulation source and again it would be nice to have a device that just did this. My only criticism of it would be that there's only a limited number of patterns and a user-generated pattern option would be good. (Oh, and as I said the ability to output it to another device). But heyho, it's still a neat little piece of work.

SO: overall, it's probably a six for functionality slash ability to play with dynamics, but an eight and three quarters to nine for sound quality. I mean, nothing is perfect and it's certainly not essential or going to change your life, but it's still a nice tool to have in your kit for making a pretty pad on a rainy afternoon when you've got nothing else to do.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 01 Oct 2019

Finally got a few minutes to play with this tonight and first impression: I'm glad I got it. :)

seqoi
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Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 01 Oct 2019

Same here. I like it.

And i like insert FX. They are not the same as every other FX (to me). Compressor is damn fine. Saturation as well.

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tobypearce
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Post 02 Oct 2019

Me too. From the screenshots I thought it would be like NI's players - a simple blend of two instruments. But as usual PH (RS?) have thought about how to do it slightly better and the result is very useable. I like the sounds in it and can see myself reaching for it quite a bit.
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Fraxis
Posts: 53
Joined: 07 Apr 2015

Post 04 Oct 2019

Has anyone managed to find a working product page for this yet? The link from the store just returns a 404 error (https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/instruments/scenic). I messaged 'Reason Studios', who quickly replied to say they were fixing it there and then. But a day later and still nothing. So much for that promise.They also said there wasn't a manual, but when I queried that, they didn't respond to clarify if that meant they weren't ever doing one, or if it was still on the to-do list. Really doesn't sound like their hearts are in it at the moment.,.,.

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MannequinRaces
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Post 04 Oct 2019

The more I play around with it the more I like it. Sample loading will be really nice when it’s implemented. The UI is taking some getting used to, that’s for sure.

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aeox
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Post 04 Oct 2019

seqoi wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Same here. I like it.

And i like insert FX. They are not the same as every other FX (to me). Compressor is damn fine. Saturation as well.
That saturation is :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
Random songs/ideas go here:
https://soundcloud.com/ae-ox/polar/s-Ocxtj

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 1894
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Location: Sweden

Post 04 Oct 2019

Gotta experiment more with FX I guess. I didn't even know you could use Scenic as a send effect device.

Jmax
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Joined: 03 Apr 2015

Post 04 Oct 2019

I trialed it, and quite like it. Nice presets, and quick ability to mix and match A and B giving endless possibilities.

Actually, it kinda of reminds me of Parsec.

That being said, no way I'm purchasing it haha. I got more then enough!

Only thing I want is the Reason Rack plugin, and maybe the Master Bus Compressor. I have a feeling the update will go on sale for 99 before too long.

Guess I'll have to wait until then!

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fieldframe
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Post 04 Oct 2019

So far, Scenic has turned out to be quite different from what I expected. The presets haven’t quite blown me away, but creating a patch from init is surprisingly straightforward and even fun. The orchestral samples, when paired with the ambient samples and fed through a bit of overdrive and the master reverb (“concrete” is stellar) can quickly fill out some impressive soundscapes.

However, as a UX professional, I have to say something: The performance page (not edit mode) is possibly the worst UI Reason Studios has ever produced. I don’t say this lightly, as RS generally produces excellent UI design (and I don’t like trashing someone else’s design)! But in my own work, I would never let something like this go beyond the prototype stage.

There are two big issues here. The first is an interaction design concept known as Fitts’ Law. The performance macros are the most important controls on the panel, and yet they’re the hardest to hit. The click targets should probably be at least twice their current size to avoid the frequent accidental dragging of Scenic around the rack.

The second is more insidious. Each macro is a one-dimensional value, 0 to 127. Normally, you would map a one-dimensional interaction to this, such as dragging a fader or a knob. Scenic does something incredible, however, requiring the user to perform a two-dimensional interaction to change a one-dimensional value (moving the mouse on both X and Y axes). Sheer UX lunacy! This could be patched over in a few ways, but at this point I’m not going into more depth without charging my consultant rate. 😛 Hopefully RS’s head of design is back from vacation now and can fix this in an update.

At least in practice, this doesn’t affect me as much due to my aforementioned meh-ness on the presets and the fact that the edit pages are well-designed. I probably wouldn’t have bought it standalone when NI Straylight is only $50 more, but as part of Suite, it rounds out the bundle nicely.
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miscend
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Post 04 Oct 2019

Any chance that Pelle coded this?

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 06 Oct 2019

miscend wrote:
04 Oct 2019
Any chance that Pelle coded this?
Why ask? If he had coded it, would that fact alone suddenly make something that's a bit pants therefore great? People need to get off this "Pelle is a genius" nonsense that RS still actually believe (see Hanna's recent Compact blog post) . I've worked with three wonderful coders on several of my products. He's a very talented DSP coder, absolutely, produced some great devices for Reason (and the CF101, lest we forget) but only like many other equally talented DSP coders out there.

In audio terms, like Quartet Chorus Ensemble (with its misleading "BBD" button label that's either based on a fundamental misunderstanding on what an ensemble chorus is or, more likely, wilfully misleading in order to undermine the superior and actual BBD-modelling of Chenille (and Quartet perhaps explains why I was refused trial resets for my BBD devices over the summer, which further reveals the conflict of interest between RS the content producers and RS the third party host: clearly they either did not want to risk more people buying Chenille at a discount to reduce the potential value Quartet had to an upgrade, or RS are simply incompetent and forgot to do it and it proves RS simply do not care about dev support, and it's not like they had the usual full summer shut down this year, they didn't, likely because of the Reason 11 deadline)) Scenic is almost certainly an IDT/GE-based device, so likely uses the exact same modules and FX as every other IDT/GE-based device. The Gui control scripting is fairly straightforward although anything involving a matrix is never simple, while the display coding to operate linear faders in two dimensions, as fieldframe points out, is a little more fiddly. And according to another commentator in a private chat I had, it's perhaps worse than fieldframe notes, as he pointed out that by using them stacked in concentric circles, each Modifier inwards has increasingly lower resolution for the control's precision; it's purely style over function (yet I still do not think those led lamps even fit the design, as they're too old fashioned for the overall modern styling).

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Ahornberg
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Post 06 Oct 2019

fieldframe wrote:
04 Oct 2019
[...] The performance macros are the most important controls on the panel, and yet they’re the hardest to hit. [...]
Yes, it's really tricky to catch the little coloured dots inside the handles ... it's easier to move over to the Master FX page where the macro controls are simply 3 knobs in a row and work as expected.

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selig
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Post 06 Oct 2019

fieldframe wrote:
04 Oct 2019
There are two big issues here. The first is an interaction design concept known as Fitts’ Law. The performance macros are the most important controls on the panel, and yet they’re the hardest to hit. The click targets should probably be at least twice their current size to avoid the frequent accidental dragging of Scenic around the rack.
+1 to everything you wrote!

I would also suggest the Fitts Law issue be dealt with by using bigger targets both as they apply to the "click targets" but also the visual target itself (it should be bigger too!). Scenic is a curios UI indeed, IMO.

I also complained about this in Europa with the Engine On buttons, which are tiny, but like Mute buttons on a mixer you often need to quickly turn engines on/off as you work on a patch (and they are very easy to miss when moving quickly from the other side of the UI).

BTW, for anyone who is interested in this sort of subject I recommend the excellent (and easy to read) "The Humane Interface" by Jef Raskin, one of the original designers on the Mac team and other interesting products. This is where I first heard about Fitts Law and many other useful concepts which eventually led to my interest in UI design (which didn't go anywhere until many years later when I began designing REs). :)
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