Scenic!!!

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miscend
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Post 06 Oct 2019

JiggeryPokery wrote:
06 Oct 2019
miscend wrote:
04 Oct 2019
Any chance that Pelle coded this?
Why ask? If he had coded it, would that fact alone suddenly make something that's a bit pants therefore great? People need to get off this "Pelle is a genius" nonsense that RS still actually believe (see Hanna's recent Compact blog post) . I've worked with three wonderful coders on several of my products. He's a very talented DSP coder, absolutely, produced some great devices for Reason (and the CF101, lest we forget) but only like many other equally talented DSP coders out there.

In audio terms, like Quartet Chorus Ensemble (with its misleading "BBD" button label that's either based on a fundamental misunderstanding on what an ensemble chorus is or, more likely, wilfully misleading in order to undermine the superior and actual BBD-modelling of Chenille (and Quartet perhaps explains why I was refused trial resets for my BBD devices over the summer, which further reveals the conflict of interest between RS the content producers and RS the third party host: clearly they either did not want to risk more people buying Chenille at a discount to reduce the potential value Quartet had to an upgrade, or RS are simply incompetent and forgot to do it and it proves RS simply do not care about dev support, and it's not like they had the usual full summer shut down this year, they didn't, likely because of the Reason 11 deadline)) Scenic is almost certainly an IDT/GE-based device, so likely uses the exact same modules and FX as every other IDT/GE-based device. The Gui control scripting is fairly straightforward although anything involving a matrix is never simple, while the display coding to operate linear faders in two dimensions, as fieldframe points out, is a little more fiddly. And according to another commentator in a private chat I had, it's perhaps worse than fieldframe notes, as he pointed out that by using them stacked in concentric circles, each Modifier inwards has increasingly lower resolution for the control's precision; it's purely style over function (yet I still do not think those led lamps even fit the design, as they're too old fashioned for the overall modern styling).
I believe he is a great DSP coder, Reason and ReBirth were ahead of everything else at one point, the results speak for themselves. The reason I brought this up was unlike the usual devices Scenic seems a bit too cookie cutter, like it was designed by committee in response to trends, mainly recent NI devices.
.
It was always known when the store opened that they’d be potential conflicts of interest between RS and RE developers. But honestly in this case I see no reason how Chenille could influence potential upgrade decisions. You could argue the same for Europa and Expanse. But I fully understand your frustrations with the way store decisions are being handled. There seems to be changes going on behind the scenes with the new leadership and ownership. Maybe Rack Extensions aren’t seen as drivers for revenue growth going forward by Verdane.

Carpainter
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Post 07 Oct 2019

miscend wrote:
06 Oct 2019
I believe he is a great DSP coder, Reason and ReBirth were ahead of everything else at one point, the results speak for themselves. The reason I brought this up was unlike the usual devices Scenic seems a bit too cookie cutter, like it was designed by committee in response to trends, mainly recent NI devices.
I'm fine with them locking novelty devices like Scenic behind the rack extension paywall. I just wish they didn't do the same with instruments like Parsec and PX7 because they bring to Reason forms of synthesis (additive and 'proper' FM) that are missing from the stock library. Reason doesn't feel like a 'complete' package without them.

rexbrewer
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Post 10 Oct 2019

fceramic wrote:
29 Sep 2019
None of the presets were inspiring or impressive. It just sounds grainy, thin and compressed. Try comparing this to something like Omnisphere or a nice cinematic Kontakt library. I think Grain sounds great, so I'm not sure what's going on here.
Agreed!!

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way2cool
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Post 10 Oct 2019

now I wish I will have buy the big reason so I can own scenic bcuz I like the sounds it make

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pushedbutton
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Post 10 Oct 2019

Having had a quick play with Scenic at work today I can say I'm quite impressed with it and can't wait to have sample loading implemented. As nice sounding as it is it does feel a bit like it's stuck in demo mode at the moment, lots of potential tho.
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artotaku
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Post 12 Oct 2019

When I first skipped through the presets some weeks ago I wasn´t expressed. As others pointed out the presets do the device no justice.
Now I tried again and built a sound from scratch and I must say the device has potential. I really like it.

This is a short sequence with two layered Scenic devices:


chaosroyale
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Post 12 Oct 2019

Your sound design is nice! Sounds lush, would work well in Blade runner 2049 or something.

But you could easily build this sound with stock devices. And they would have sample loading. Put 'em in a combinator and you would have a "super scenic" available anytime for no extra cost.
artotaku wrote:
12 Oct 2019
When I first skipped through the presets some weeks ago I wasn´t expressed. As others pointed out the presets do the device no justice.
Now I tried again and built a sound from scratch and I must say the device has potential. I really like it.

This is a short sequence with two layered Scenic devices:


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artotaku
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Post 12 Oct 2019

chaosroyale wrote:
12 Oct 2019
Your sound design is nice! Sounds lush, would work well in Blade runner 2049 or something.

But you could easily build this sound with stock devices. And they would have sample loading. Put 'em in a combinator and you would have a "super scenic" available anytime for no extra cost.
Thanks. That is true sound-wise but not for ease of use and speed of tweaking. You could throw four Grains, a mixer and a bunch of FX into a combinator but boy would that combi take up screen estate, scrolling and finding the correct knobs. That´s why a RE always wins over a combi patch or a refill IMHO.

chaosroyale
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Post 12 Oct 2019

I totally appreciate your workflow choice, and it obviously gets you results. I have to disagree from my point of view tho:

How many performance controls are actually available from the front panel of scenic? I doubt it is more than the combinator. So if your combinator is set up properly you would have the same go-to controls available. You can just load your patches into grain while minimized. Same with the fx and anlog synths you might want to include. Just put the most common features on macro controls /mod wheel etc, and unfold them for tweaking when you want to deep-dive.

A combinator without showing all the devices actually uses less screen real estate than Scenic.

But more importantly, you would have more options available. Need to replace a grain with a virtual analog? easy. Want to use 2 delays instead of a delay and reverb? easy. For me, this is 99% of why I use Reason. (If I wanted a single in-the-box device, I think Kontakt is far superior.)

I dunno man, seems like 99 bucks is a lot for basically just a skin. But like I said, your sounds are definitely working for you. Horses for courses I guess.
artotaku wrote:
12 Oct 2019
chaosroyale wrote:
12 Oct 2019
Your sound design is nice! Sounds lush, would work well in Blade runner 2049 or something.

But you could easily build this sound with stock devices. And they would have sample loading. Put 'em in a combinator and you would have a "super scenic" available anytime for no extra cost.
Thanks. That is true sound-wise but not for ease of use and speed of tweaking. You could throw four Grains, a mixer and a bunch of FX into a combinator but boy would that combi take up screen estate, scrolling and finding the correct knobs. That´s why a RE always wins over a combi patch or a refill IMHO.

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Creativemind
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Post 12 Oct 2019

nooomy wrote:
26 Sep 2019
MrFigg wrote:
26 Sep 2019


Is it a synth or is it a rompler?
It’s a granular rompler with a really nice FX section it’s abit like malstrom 2.0
That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
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artotaku
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Post 12 Oct 2019

chaosroyale wrote:
12 Oct 2019
I totally appreciate your workflow choice, and it obviously gets you results. I have to disagree from my point of view tho:

How many performance controls are actually available from the front panel of scenic? I doubt it is more than the combinator. So if your combinator is set up properly you would have the same go-to controls available. You can just load your patches into grain while minimized. Same with the fx and anlog synths you might want to include. Just put the most common features on macro controls /mod wheel etc, and unfold them for tweaking when you want to deep-dive.

A combinator without showing all the devices actually uses less screen real estate than Scenic.

But more importantly, you would have more options available. Need to replace a grain with a virtual analog? easy. Want to use 2 delays instead of a delay and reverb? easy. For me, this is 99% of why I use Reason. (If I wanted a single in-the-box device, I think Kontakt is far superior.)

I dunno man, seems like 99 bucks is a lot for basically just a skin. But like I said, your sounds are definitely working for you. Horses for courses I guess.
Sure, no arguing about the advantages of combinators. When we compare the main panel (non-edit mode) of Scenic to the combinator panel there is not much differences (actually I don´t like this Scenic panel). What I meant is when Scenic is in edit mode it wins over a combinator since it has switchable panels and all controls are not far away. So for detail control you would have to open the combinator anyway.

Regarding the price I´m with you. Let´s see if it goes on sale.

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ModSource
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Post 12 Oct 2019

I submitted a question to Reason Studios Product Support about the source of Scenic’s samples. The reply was that its a mix between Factory Sound Bank samples and completely new ones, created by Reason Studios.

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artotaku
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Post 12 Oct 2019

It´s actually quite good for industrial dark techno:


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platzangst
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Post 13 Oct 2019

This all puts me in a bit of a quandary. I've heard some interesting things coming from people playing with Scenic, and it may fit in with some projects I'm looking at in the future. However, until it gets sample loading I'm reluctant to sink that much into a very fancy soundbank. Plus there's the issue of the upgrade, whether to go with Standard or Suite. Upgrading to Standard 11 and buying Scenic separately versus upgrading to Suite 11 which includes Scenic, well, there isn't that much difference in cost. I suppose I could justify Suite by all the things besides Scenic I could get, but what's left over after I've already bought the RS REs I wanted isn't really pulling that hard on my wallet.

I guess it's going to come down to what, if any, deals are forthcoming on Black Friday. I can be patient, and I'm in the middle of some things anyway, there's nothing vital in the upgrade (either form) that I have to have now. If the Suite upgrade goes on sale, I'll go that way - if Scenic goes on sale I'll do that instead. If no prices change, not sure what I'll do. I'm fairly tempted to not upgrade to Suite this year and see what RS releases in the way of new devices between now and the next upgrade.

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jam-s
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Post 13 Oct 2019

Creativemind wrote:
12 Oct 2019
That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
Let's hope there will also be a new Kong. One that's not fundamentally broken by design. (Or they could just port Kong to the RE platform and fix it while doing so).
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace.

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Loque
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Post 13 Oct 2019

jam-s wrote:
13 Oct 2019
Creativemind wrote:
12 Oct 2019
That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
Let's hope there will also be a new Kong. One that's not fundamentally broken by design. (Or they could just port Kong to the RE platform and fix it while doing so).
Moving everything to RE would make them independent from Reason and the could be more frequent updates... In theory... In practice really saw updates oh RE RE....
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

mcatalao
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Post 13 Oct 2019

joeyluck wrote:
28 Sep 2019
I think something that Reason Studios should look at is Roli's Equator. Similar in that it uses two sample playback modules (it also incorporates synthesis), and focuses on interesting sounds and performance. There is a huge focus on performance and interesting sound creation with Equator.

Equator is a quality instrument. Excellent samples, great interface, amazing patches, and of course MPE support. There is no feature better for performance. The sounds and patches are even more suited for score writing, if that's the aim. Great of course for a multitude of things. Beautiful sounding stuff.

I recommend everybody check out Equator. And pick up a Seaboard or Block which are 20% off currently. You don't get the full advantages of MPE support in Reason...maybe at some point? But you can put it to use in that other DAW you own or have been toying with. Equator also works in standalone.

I'm sure there's some other plugins to compare to, but this one in particular I find most inspiring and like these sounds the most.





I've been eyeing the Seaboard stuff since they got out. TBH, i think i haven'd made the plunge because they don't work with Reason yet. Or better be said, reason does not work with them yet... :/

But they're amazing. Maybe one of these days they work with it, or i make the plunge nonetheless and start using other daw... Until then... Lets see!

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joeyluck
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Post 13 Oct 2019

mcatalao wrote:
13 Oct 2019

I've been eyeing the Seaboard stuff since they got out. TBH, i think i haven'd made the plunge because they don't work with Reason yet. Or better be said, reason does not work with them yet... :/

But they're amazing. Maybe one of these days they work with it, or i make the plunge nonetheless and start using other daw... Until then... Lets see!
Well to be clear, they don't fully work with Reason yet...as in no MPE support. But they do work for basic use. I use them with the SWAM instruments, which are played monophonic essentially. I can glide notes and I can apply aftertouch, etc. Because Reason doesn't have MPE support, you can't have the individual expressiveness of notes; for examples you can't bend notes in opposite directions in Equator. Hopefully someday Reason will add support. Even GarageBand has MPE support.

And FYI you don't need a ROLI Seaboard to use Equator, although you will get so much more out of it using one. But it's still a great synth when comparing things you can get and use in Reason.

mcatalao
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Post 13 Oct 2019

Well, the idea now is that i am in need of a new controller, that can have some more "versatility" than my Keystation 88es. I was aiming for something like NI Komplete 88 MK2 or the arturia Keylab 88 MK2. 88 keys is important for me.

However, i could go with something less expensive with less controls, and a pair of roli seaboard blocks for the MPE stuff, though the blocks keys are smaller and less natural to work with. I'd like to try them, though.

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Post 13 Oct 2019

Creativemind wrote:
12 Oct 2019
nooomy wrote:
26 Sep 2019


It’s a granular rompler with a really nice FX section it’s abit like malstrom 2.0
That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
It's more like Thor is Subtractor 2.0, Europa is Malstrom 2.0, Monotone Bass is a mobile app that they added to the core package so they could list it as an extra instrument, and Scenic is a Grain Combinator patch with a preset Refill.

Complex-1 could have been Thor 2.0, but they put too many limitations on it. If it was polyphonic with multiple oscillator types, it could have been something truly special. As it stands, it's just a dumbed down, monophonic semi-modular analog synth that admittedly sounds really good.

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Loque
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Post Yesterday

Carpainter wrote:
13 Oct 2019
Creativemind wrote:
12 Oct 2019


That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
It's more like Thor is Subtractor 2.0, Europa is Malstrom 2.0, Monotone Bass is a mobile app that they added to the core package so they could list it as an extra instrument, and Scenic is a Grain Combinator patch with a preset Refill.

Complex-1 could have been Thor 2.0, but they put too many limitations on it. If it was polyphonic with multiple oscillator types, it could have been something truly special. As it stands, it's just a dumbed down, monophonic semi-modular analog synth that admittedly sounds really good.
Grain is Malström 2.0 IMO and Europa wanted to be Thor 2.0 but lacks some modulation so we got Complex-1 (yea, monophonic).
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Carpainter
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Post Yesterday

Loque wrote:
Yesterday
Grain is Malström 2.0 IMO and Europa wanted to be Thor 2.0 but lacks some modulation so we got Complex-1 (yea, monophonic).
Europa's analog oscillator doesn't sound as good to me as Thor's. It sounds brighter and less 'analogy' in general, like it's a wavetable as opposed to a modeled analog osc. There's nothing in Europa that sounds quite like Thor's Moog-style LPF module either.

But yeah, Complex-1 was a massively missed opportunity. The oscillator and filter sound incredible. Why they gimped it by making it monophonic is beyond me. It's not like they were trying to accurately model a Eurorack. They could have made some concessions so it could be used as a 'proper' synth.

If I were a more cynical man, I would think they didn't want it to be 'too good' just in case they decide to make a polyphonic virtual analog synth and sell it as a rack extension. If they ever made something along the lines of Diva, I would probably lose control of my bowels.

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buddard
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Post Yesterday

Carpainter wrote:
Yesterday
But yeah, Complex-1 was a massively missed opportunity. The oscillator and filter sound incredible. Why they gimped it by making it monophonic is beyond me. It's not like they were trying to accurately model a Eurorack. They could have made some concessions so it could be used as a 'proper' synth.

If I were a more cynical man, I would think they didn't want it to be 'too good' just in case they decide to make a polyphonic virtual analog synth and sell it as a rack extension. If they ever made something along the lines of Diva, I would probably lose control of my bowels.
I think the truth is far less sinister. :)

If I would venture a guess, I think that it has more to do with performance than anything else. They mentioned that the whole synth is heavily oversampled to deal with audio rate modulation, which I would imagine eats up quite a lot of CPU.

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Creativemind
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Post Yesterday

Carpainter wrote:
13 Oct 2019
Creativemind wrote:
12 Oct 2019


That's made me think actually as someone said that Europa was like the new Thor a while back so is Monotone Bass kind of a new Subtractor and Scenic the new Malstrom?
It's more like Thor is Subtractor 2.0, Europa is Malstrom 2.0, Monotone Bass is a mobile app that they added to the core package so they could list it as an extra instrument, and Scenic is a Grain Combinator patch with a preset Refill.

Complex-1 could have been Thor 2.0, but they put too many limitations on it. If it was polyphonic with multiple oscillator types, it could have been something truly special. As it stands, it's just a dumbed down, monophonic semi-modular analog synth that admittedly sounds really good.
:lol: :lol:
:reason:

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Post Yesterday

buddard wrote:
Yesterday
I think the truth is far less sinister. :)

If I would venture a guess, I think that it has more to do with performance than anything else. They mentioned that the whole synth is heavily oversampled to deal with audio rate modulation, which I would imagine eats up quite a lot of CPU.
That's what I thought until I started combining a bunch of them in a Combinator. I'm running a relatively low-spec machine (AMD FX-4100) and 4 Complex-1 devices in a Combinator barely moved the DSP bar. I was hammering it as hard as I could, too. A single patch in Scenic is more taxing on my CPU than 4 Complex-1s running in a Combinator, which is pretty crazy when you consider how good Complex-1 sounds.

Whoever coded Complex-1 (Pelle?) is a wizard.

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