Rack Extensions Rule, VST Sucks

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2019

boingy wrote:
30 Sep 2019
Let's just hope that Reason Studios never turn off their server....
Which is something that can be said for plenty of VST that require online authorization as well. :o :shock: :?
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Mataya
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Post 30 Sep 2019

I doubt that all of the vst authorization servers will turn off at once. I think that's the important difference. Oh my God this conversation leads to nowhere. I'm out.

m

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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2019

Mataya wrote:
30 Sep 2019
I doubt that all of the vst authorization servers will turn off at once. I think that's the important difference.
Of course! But the point was, RE's aren't the only plugins out there that use online auth servers.
Mataya wrote:
30 Sep 2019
Oh my God this conversation leads to nowhere. I'm out.

m
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

:lol:
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hurricane
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Post 30 Sep 2019

In terms of convenience and ease of use (it seems like you Reasontalk geezers find using "computers" hard) then fine, I can see how you all might find REs "easier" to use lol . But quality wise, there is no RE in existence that can compete sonically with some of the more high end VSTs, like Diva or Omnisphere.

I'll get off your grass now. :puf_bigsmile:
Last edited by hurricane on 30 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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hurricane
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Post 30 Sep 2019

Oh, and Enochlight - I don't need to hear how you hate Omnisphere's GUI again....
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DougalDarkly
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Post 30 Sep 2019

hurricane wrote:
30 Sep 2019
In terms of convenience and ease of use (it seems like you Reasontalk geezers find using "computers" hard) then fine, I can see how you all might find REs "easier" to use lol.
I don't know if 'easier' is the right word, I'd say 'better' would be more appropriate, because REs are native and fully integrated, like Reason's built-in instruments.
hurricane wrote:
30 Sep 2019
But quality wise, there is no RE in existence that can compete sonically with some of the more high end VSTs, like Diva or Omnisphere.
It's then surely a good thing that you can use your precious f*cking VSTs, like Diva or Omnisphere, in Reason whenever the f*ck you like, no?

Good luck with your 'sonic competition' though, in the meantime I'll be making music, maybe with VST, maybe with some REs, maybe even stock instruments (shock!) like the rest of us geezers.

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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2019

hurricane wrote:
30 Sep 2019
Oh, and Enochlight - I don't need to hear how you hate Omnisphere's GUI again....
But it sucks soooo bad - I thought you'd like to be reminded? :lol: jk

Now that Reason Plugin is out, Omnisphere just became a lot less interesting anyway. :puf_bigsmile: ;)
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joeyluck
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Post 30 Sep 2019

On the topic of Omnisphere... I had a chance to try it because a friend had it. I didn't like it. My friend didn't like it either and was offering to sell it to me for cheap, and I still didn't have a desire to own it.

There is no demo version of Omnisphere. To me that's a sign that the developer wants to hide behind the hype for an overpriced piece of software. Some aspects are cool, but a lot of it is uninspiring and feels like bloat.

This is not an argument of RE vs VST, but if Omnisphere is being brought into the conversation...

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hurricane
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Post 30 Sep 2019

DougalDarkly wrote:
30 Sep 2019

It's then surely a good thing that you can use your precious f*cking VSTs, like Diva or Omnisphere, in Reason whenever the f*ck you like, no?
Why yes it is thank you!
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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
30 Sep 2019
On the topic of Omnisphere... I had a chance to try it because a friend had it. I didn't like it. My friend didn't like it either and was offering to sell it to me for cheap, and I still didn't have a desire to own it.

There is no demo version of Omnisphere. To me that's a sign that the developer wants to hide behind the hype for an overpriced piece of software. Some aspects are cool, but a lot of it is uninspiring and feels like bloat.

This is not an argument of RE vs VST, but if Omnisphere is being brought into the conversation...
That's a great point, and something that I find strangely suspicious. And before someone goes on the "it's too large to make a proper demo of" trope, I call bullshit - because it would be easy for Spectrasonics to create a demo-only version that's scaled down.

I bought it, and after spending a week with it, a seriously regretted my decision. It's overhyped and not worth nearly as much as Spectrasonics would have you believe. Much of the content felt dated, and reminded me of older Roland libraries (which isn't surprising, taking into consideration Eric Persing's long history with them).

I'm not being disingenuous when I say Reason Plugin just made Omnisphere a lot less interesting, IMHO. I sold Omnisphere pretty quick, and while I made most of my initial money back, I caution anyone from spending regular price on that.
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aeox
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Post 30 Sep 2019

Massively prefer RE over VST in every way.

At the same time, VST fills the gaps.. it's really nice.

As you said, best of both worlds!
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QVprod
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Post 30 Sep 2019

hurricane wrote:
30 Sep 2019
In terms of convenience and ease of use (it seems like you Reasontalk geezers find using "computers" hard) then fine, I can see how you all might find REs "easier" to use lol . But quality wise, there is no RE in existence that can compete sonically with some of the more high end VSTs, like Diva or Omnisphere.
joeyluck wrote:
30 Sep 2019
On the topic of Omnisphere... I had a chance to try it because a friend had it. I didn't like it. My friend didn't like it either and was offering to sell it to me for cheap, and I still didn't have a desire to own it.

There is no demo version of Omnisphere. To me that's a sign that the developer wants to hide behind the hype for an overpriced piece of software. Some aspects are cool, but a lot of it is uninspiring and feels like bloat.

This is not an argument of RE vs VST, but if Omnisphere is being brought into the conversation...
EnochLight wrote:
30 Sep 2019
That's a great point, and something that I find strangely suspicious. And before someone goes on the "it's too large to make a proper demo of" trope, I call bullshit - because it would be easy for Spectrasonics to create a demo-only version that's scaled down.

I bought it, and after spending a week with it, a seriously regretted my decision. It's overhyped and not worth nearly as much as Spectrasonics would have you believe. Much of the content felt dated, and reminded me of older Roland libraries (which isn't surprising, taking into consideration Eric Persing's long history with them).

I'm not being disingenuous when I say Reason Plugin just made Omnisphere a lot less interesting, IMHO. I sold Omnisphere pretty quick, and while I made most of my initial money back, I caution anyone from spending regular price on that.
Yeah the main argument of RE being better is mostly due to license management. Quality seems to be mostly limited to the developer nowadays unlike before. A lot of the earlier REs were popular because it was the best available for Reason and not becasue they matched up to anything in the VST world. Some stuff is overhyped though, Omnisphere being one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think Eric Persing is a legend, but after being used to building layered patches in Reason, Buying an extremely expensive plugin that does what we can already do seems pretty pointless. A lot of people seem to like it most for pads, which are pretty much the easiest thing to make. It's a cool plugin, but Reason rack as a plugin indeed makes it even less interesting with it essentially being a combinator of sorts. Combine that with the macro controls some of DAWs (like Studio One) include and the possibilities are endless. Get this; Since I haven't seen anyone mention it as of yet, We properly can stack combinators in the rack vst. Super combinator is semi-achieved.

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Oquasec
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Post 30 Sep 2019

In terms of functionality I would say omnisphere 1 is like Reason 5 and omnisphere 2 would be like Modern Reason?...
Going by the features omnisphere is like thor grain right now.
And both cost 500$ for entry.
Producer/Sound Designer.

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EnochLight
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Post 01 Oct 2019

QVprod wrote:
30 Sep 2019
I think Eric Persing is a legend, but after being used to building layered patches in Reason, Buying an extremely expensive plugin that does what we can already do seems pretty pointless. A lot of people seem to like it most for pads, which are pretty much the easiest thing to make. It's a cool plugin, but Reason rack as a plugin indeed makes it even less interesting with it essentially being a combinator of sorts.
That was the first thing I thought of after my first couple of days with Omnisphere 2. I realized that all the Omnisphere fanboys must have never heard of a Combinator before, or if they did - they never bothered to build any. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sure Eric Persing is a swell guy, though.
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QVprod
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Post 01 Oct 2019

EnochLight wrote:
01 Oct 2019
QVprod wrote:
30 Sep 2019
I think Eric Persing is a legend, but after being used to building layered patches in Reason, Buying an extremely expensive plugin that does what we can already do seems pretty pointless. A lot of people seem to like it most for pads, which are pretty much the easiest thing to make. It's a cool plugin, but Reason rack as a plugin indeed makes it even less interesting with it essentially being a combinator of sorts.
That was the first thing I thought of after my first couple of days with Omnisphere 2. I realized that all the Omnisphere fanboys must have never heard of a Combinator before, or if they did - they never bothered to build any. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sure Eric Persing is a swell guy, though.
Precisely :lol:

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hurricane
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Post 01 Oct 2019

Those of us who have spent more than just a "couple of days" with Omnisphere AND have been hardcore Reason users for like FOREVER, know better. Imagine if an Omnisphere user who was new to Reason spent a couple of days with IT. A couple of days. What would they say?

"It's too complex."
"The synths suck."
"Reason sounds flat."
"All this mega-combining for a mediocre sounding patch?"
"Not worth the $399."

A couple of days.

There are PLENTY of Omnisphere reviews out there, as well as a TON of vids showcasing it, many of them with Eric himself showing it off proudly.

Reason fanboys (the majority of which can't even afford Omnisphere) can trash talk it all they want lol.

Us long-time Omnisphere "fanboys" know better. And those of us who are also long-time Reason users know for certain that there is no RE in Omnisphere's league. Not even close. :lol:
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EnochLight
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Post 01 Oct 2019

hurricane wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Us long-time Omnisphere "fanboys" know better. And those of us who are also long-time Reason users know for certain that there is no RE in Omnisphere's league. Not even close. :lol:
LMAO!!! That's adorable. You don't need any RE's when Reason 10/11 Combinators can easily outclass Omnisphere. But that's cool, you're an Omnisphere fanboy. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. :lol:
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hurricane
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Post 01 Oct 2019

EnochLight wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. :lol:
You wanna see feathers ruffled wait till *someone* creates the "VSTs RULE, Rack Extensions SUCK" topic. :puf_wink:
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EnochLight
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Post 01 Oct 2019

hurricane wrote:
01 Oct 2019
You wanna see feathers ruffled wait till *someone* creates the "VSTs RULE, Rack Extensions SUCK" topic. :puf_wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I triple dawg dare you! :D
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hurricane
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Post 01 Oct 2019

EnochLight wrote:
01 Oct 2019
hurricane wrote:
01 Oct 2019
You wanna see feathers ruffled wait till *someone* creates the "VSTs RULE, Rack Extensions SUCK" topic. :puf_wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I triple dawg dare you! :D
OMG it is soooooo tempting.... :lol:
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music
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Mataya
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Post 01 Oct 2019

Nothing wrong with omnisphere except maybe the price. Sound and looks clean, bunch of effects and it's easy to use, can get really complex if you know what you're doing. Nice sound machine. Don't see a problem.
It comes down to preferences and if you find what works for you, the price also becomes arbitrary.

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EnochLight
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Post 01 Oct 2019

Mataya wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Nothing wrong with omnisphere except maybe the price. Sound and looks clean, bunch of effects and it's easy to use, can get really complex if you know what you're doing. Nice sound machine. Don't see a problem.
It comes down to preferences and if you find what works for you, the price also becomes arbitrary.
True, though for the regular price Omnisphere sells for - $479 USD - you could buy Reason 11 for less at $399 USD instead and get a full proper DAW, Reason Plugin for use in any DAW, as well as the power of Reason's rack and Combinator in both Reason DAW proper and any DAW for that matter.

So, there's that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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joeyluck
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Post 01 Oct 2019

hurricane wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Those of us who have spent more than just a "couple of days" with Omnisphere AND have been hardcore Reason users for like FOREVER, know better. Imagine if an Omnisphere user who was new to Reason spent a couple of days with IT. A couple of days. What would they say?

"It's too complex."
"The synths suck."
"Reason sounds flat."
"All this mega-combining for a mediocre sounding patch?"
"Not worth the $399."

A couple of days.

There are PLENTY of Omnisphere reviews out there, as well as a TON of vids showcasing it, many of them with Eric himself showing it off proudly.

Reason fanboys (the majority of which can't even afford Omnisphere) can trash talk it all they want lol.

Us long-time Omnisphere "fanboys" know better. And those of us who are also long-time Reason users know for certain that there is no RE in Omnisphere's league. Not even close. :lol:
Eh I still stand by my assessment of it. I don't think it's an argument of RE vs VST. I think the different formats still have their strengths, of course, and they win in different aspects. And I think there are much better VSTs out there than Omnisphere in which to compare. Just my opinion.

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gullum
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Post 01 Oct 2019

When I hear people praise a VST synth like this I get the feeling that I can't make music without this synth although I have been making music close to 30 years now without Omnisphere even once. I get it some people can't make food without a microwave sad for them but people have made food for millions of years without microwaves. Now I go back to the stone age and make music only with Reason and RE's no VST just the way I like it

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QVprod
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Post 01 Oct 2019

hurricane wrote:
01 Oct 2019
Those of us who have spent more than just a "couple of days" with Omnisphere AND have been hardcore Reason users for like FOREVER, know better. Imagine if an Omnisphere user who was new to Reason spent a couple of days with IT. A couple of days. What would they say?

"It's too complex."
"The synths suck."
"Reason sounds flat."
"All this mega-combining for a mediocre sounding patch?"
"Not worth the $399."

A couple of days.

There are PLENTY of Omnisphere reviews out there, as well as a TON of vids showcasing it, many of them with Eric himself showing it off proudly.

Reason fanboys (the majority of which can't even afford Omnisphere) can trash talk it all they want lol.

Us long-time Omnisphere "fanboys" know better. And those of us who are also long-time Reason users know for certain that there is no RE in Omnisphere's league. Not even close. :lol:
I’ve seen those videos.... not impressed enough to buy it. Omnisphere is layered patches... so you layer a couple RE together... similar results. Not saying it isn't good. Just overrated.

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