Suddenly I don't feel bad for buying REs anymore :)

[antic604]

Reason 11 announcement in a one bold move made me not regret all of those RE purchases over the last 2 years (over EUR1.6k, WTF!!!).

I'm so happy to finally be able to use Grain, Parsec, Kong, Complex-1, Vk-2, Expanse, Fritz, Nostromo, Noise Engineering synths(!), FM4, Reason Electric Bass & Drum Kits, Resonans, Antidote, Spectra... and others in Bitwig or Cubase!!!

Hopefully they'll quickly add possibility to route MIDI out from the Reason Rack VST, so we could use QNG, PolyStep, Delta, etc. to drive VST instruments as well!

[boingy]

(over EUR1.6k, WTF!!!).

Jeez, man. You need to learn to not add that stuff up!!!!!

[antic604]

Jeez, man. You need to learn to not add that stuff up!!!!!

I didn't do it on purpose. I was just checking something on Paypal and a summary per payments destination showed up...

[boingy]

My credit card company has started sending me an annual summary of how much I spend on the card. No breakdown, just a larger number than I want to see!

[Loque]

Hum... I thought Players and all devices would work and therefore MIDI grabbing too. What did i missed?

[boingy]

Hum... I thought Players and all devices would work and therefore MIDI grabbing too. What did i missed?

They have not said what will be routable back out of the rack plugin. Maybe it's just stereo audio . Maybe its a bucket load of audio outs plus a MIDI out. We just don't yet know.

The only comment on it so far is that the MIDI input will be "omni". So the same midi data goes to everything in the rack. Thus it's one instrument, or instrument stack, in each instance of the rack.

[antic604]

Hum... I thought Players and all devices would work and therefore MIDI grabbing too. What did i missed?

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

[ShelLuser]

I'm so happy to finally be able to use Grain, Parsec, Kong, Complex-1, Vk-2, Expanse, Fritz, Nostromo, Noise Engineering synths(!), FM4, Reason Electric Bass & Drum Kits, Resonans, Antidote, Spectra... and others in Bitwig or Cubase!!!

Why wouldn't you be able to do that right now? Surely those two support ReWire as well? I know it's not perfect but nonetheless it's quite usable. I've been hooking up Reason into my Live sets for years now.

(edit)

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

That's plain out disappointing... Then this setup won't be much better than ReWire at all, because there are tricks to route Midi out of Reason back into the rewire host. Using the reaplugs and a nice piece of javascript code you can relatively easily extract said midi data and then use it in the host.

Considering that 11 is also going to drop rewire I think I won't be removing 10 any time soon.

[Karim]

Same here. You not feel guilty

[mcatalao]

Hum... I thought Players and all devices would work and therefore MIDI grabbing too. What did i missed?

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

Nah... You still can sequence Serum in Reason (the daw).

[antic604]

I'm so happy to finally be able to use Grain, Parsec, Kong, Complex-1, Vk-2, Expanse, Fritz, Nostromo, Noise Engineering synths(!), FM4, Reason Electric Bass & Drum Kits, Resonans, Antidote, Spectra... and others in Bitwig or Cubase!!!

Why wouldn't you be able to do that right now? Surely those two support ReWire as well? I know it's not perfect but nonetheless it's quite usable. I've been hooking up Reason into my Live sets for years now.

Not interested in ReWire at all - it's super clumsy (maintaining & syncing 2 projects, syncing all the stuff together) and running 2 DAWs at the same time begs for accidents to happen, not to mention impact on performance.

[antic604]

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

Nah... You still can sequence Serum in Reason (the daw).

Thats not the point of this topic, is it? And what if I wanted to drive Bitwig's Grid or Phase-4 with QNG? That was just an example

[DJMaytag]

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

Hopefully this is a feature that's added to Reason Rack and then brought to Reason 11 to enable MIDI out of VST's (think Chthulu or LFO Tool MIDI out).

[soroc sosta]

Hum... I thought Players and all devices would work and therefore MIDI grabbing too. What did i missed?

Mattias replied to me - here, on FB or KvR; don't remember anymore! - that MIDI out isn't supported as of now, but maybe it will be down the line. So no sequencing of Serum or Avenger with QNG or Delta just yet

Its a pretty slick loophole, lends Reason some manner of exclusivity.

[ksniod]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

[antic604]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

It would be a much better news, if Reason Rack VST was added FREE (or at a small fee) to RE purchases.

If non-Reason users could buy Complex-1, Vk-2, eXpanse, Antidote, Nostromo or Resonans, etc. at their RE price and use in their DAW, that would be something!

[Carambo]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

Why a developer would invest in a RE format encapsulated in a VST container while he could develop directly the VST which can be used universally even in Reason ?? Ask Uh-e, Synapse, Rob Papen, Softube,...
And why someone not currently in the Reason ecosystem would buy the full Reason package just to use the RE rack, while you already have on the market hundreds of great VSTs ? Does PH secretely expect that they will switch to the Reason DAW ? And what would be the incentive today for someone to invest in REs vs VST ? Few specific REs are great, most of the REs are average, and the fantastic RE players will not be usable in the rack to run external instruments !
Looks like the rack is a compensation to the loyal RE developers who lost ground since the introduction of VST...

[antic604]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

Why a developer would invest in a RE format encapsulated in a VST container while he could develop directly the VST which can be used universally even in Reason ?? Ask Uh-e, Synapse, Rob Papen, Softube,...
And why someone not currently in the Reason ecosystem would buy the full Reason package just to use the RE rack, while you already have on the market hundreds of great VSTs ? Does PH secretely expect that they will switch to the Reason DAW ? And what would be the incentive today for someone to invest in REs vs VST ? Few specific REs are great, most of the REs are average, and the fantastic RE players will not be usable in the rack to run external instruments !
Looks like the rack is a compensation to the loyal RE developers who lost ground since the introduction of VST...

It increasingly seems to me like v11 is a way for Props to get money from people who were on the brink of leaving Reason for other DAWs, but they were reluctant because of money they've sinked in Reason and REs (that they can't sell, BTW) but now at least they can take most of it with them to the new DAW which will make the transition more appealing, even if they need to pay the $/EUR129 to cut the cord...

[Last Alternative]

PROPELLERHEAD isn’t gonna see one red cent from me until they get their act together! Haha !

[antic604]

PROPELLERHEAD isn’t gonna see one red cent from me until they get their act together! Haha !

From you maybe, but I've seen many owners of Reason in lower versions than 10 expressing interest in upgrading, so they could finally access their devices in other DAW without the clunkiness of ReWire. That's definitely worth the EUR/$129!

[pongasoft]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

Why a developer would invest in a RE format encapsulated in a VST container while he could develop directly the VST which can be used universally even in Reason ?? Ask Uh-e, Synapse, Rob Papen, Softube,...
And why someone not currently in the Reason ecosystem would buy the full Reason package just to use the RE rack, while you already have on the market hundreds of great VSTs ? Does PH secretely expect that they will switch to the Reason DAW ? And what would be the incentive today for someone to invest in REs vs VST ? Few specific REs are great, most of the REs are average, and the fantastic RE players will not be usable in the rack to run external instruments !
Looks like the rack is a compensation to the loyal RE developers who lost ground since the introduction of VST...

In theory, what PH brings to the table (vs directly implementing a VST plugin) is that, as a developer, you only have to worry about implementing your business logic code on the platform of your choice (ex: macOS or Windows). You don't have to deal about compiling it on multiple platforms. You don't have to worry about implementing DRM (how to make sure, if you sell it for money, that people are not going to crack it and use it for free, or to manage licenses, etc...). You don't have to worry about packaging it and hosting it. etc...

Of course all this comes at a price since PH charges a fee for all this, BUT it saves you a lot of work and if you can expand your audience to any user that use a VST compatible DAW, this is huge.

BUT, and there are multiple big BUTs:

1) this is the theory... in practice though, the RE environment is way more constraining than the VST one (one big obvious drawback is low resolution). The flow (using PH build server to publish your plugin, using the PH shop, posting a new description of your product) can be excruciatingly painful and slow mostly because of lack of resources (and don't get me started about the summer vacation...). The good news though is that in theory, those are fixable issues... but I have switched to VST development while waiting for those to happen (over 2 years now...). If they want to keep RE devs and attract new ones they are going to need to up their game significantly...

2) if they don't release a FREE or close to FREE version of the VST Rack Plugin I strongly believe they will attract nobody. At $99, it is just way too expensive. I assume that the $99 version will include the "stock" devices (like Thor, Redrum, etc...). It would be fine to have a FREE version that is just the empty rack with no stock devices... that way you can't "cheat" and get Reason for free... And you can always buy the stock devices for $99... But the huge difference is that anybody can download it and try it and use many of the free REs that are available or just buy <enter you most favorite RE here> without having to shell <price of you most favorite RE here> + $99...

Yan

[boingy]

And the most amusing thing is the number of people who say they are going to buy the upgrade just so they can leave. Let me put my Propellerhat on and see if I care. Hmmm, so you say you are leaving but want to hand me some cash for the update first? Thank you very much!

[antic604]

And the most amusing thing is the number of people who say they are going to buy the upgrade just so they can leave. Let me put my Propellerhat on and see if I care. Hmmm, so you say you are leaving but want to hand me some cash for the update first? Thank you very much!

I think this was their plan all along. People are leaving? Let's make them drop us some cash on their way bye-bye. But obviously this is a short-sighted thing and - from Verdane's perspective, in particular - it will be hard to explain to potential investors that it's a sustainable business model...

[boingy]

And the most amusing thing is the number of people who say they are going to buy the upgrade just so they can leave. Let me put my Propellerhat on and see if I care. Hmmm, so you say you are leaving but want to hand me some cash for the update first? Thank you very much!

I think this was their plan all along. People are leaving? Let's make them drop us some cash on their way bye-bye. But obviously this is a short-sighted thing and - from Verdane's perspective, in particular - it will be hard to explain to potential investors that it's a sustainable business model...

That's the genius bit. Potential investors have no way to know how many people have "left". There are no stats for that. All they will see is an excellent "conversion rate" for upgrades and a very healthy bank balance. "Wow! This company must be doing something right! Look at how many upgrades they sold in just a few weeks!"

[tony10000]

Reason 11 announcement is great news for RE developpers i guess (the ones who develop creative and clever plugins only for RE format)

Why a developer would invest in a RE format encapsulated in a VST container while he could develop directly the VST which can be used universally even in Reason ?? Ask Uh-e, Synapse, Rob Papen, Softube,...
And why someone not currently in the Reason ecosystem would buy the full Reason package just to use the RE rack, while you already have on the market hundreds of great VSTs ? Does PH secretely expect that they will switch to the Reason DAW ? And what would be the incentive today for someone to invest in REs vs VST ? Few specific REs are great, most of the REs are average, and the fantastic RE players will not be usable in the rack to run external instruments !
Looks like the rack is a compensation to the loyal RE developers who lost ground since the introduction of VST...

I am thinking that they will probably try and develop a parallel standard to VST to entice developers since they would handle marketing, sales, copy protection, etc. It will be easier to entice other DAW developers to support it if it is not tied to a DAW.