Comments Section in the RE Shop?

[boingy]

I think I can offer an alternative definition of the Internet: a place where people who don't know as much as they think spend too much time talking.

[joeyluck]

I'm still of the opinion that people should be held accountable to back up their ratings with words. I actually have the opinion that anybody rating something should be required to say a few words. If someone wants to give something 1 star and just say, "I hate the color green!" then we know that 1 star rating doesn't carry much weight.

Also with reviews I learn things about products I might not have thought, like "this replaced xyz for me because it can do this" or "At first this sounded bad to me, but then I discovered you have to do this...it really shines for things like this" which I might've overlooked.

I'd rather people not have the ability to hide behind 1 star ratings and I think the mass majority will find usefulness in reviews and be able to weed out the bad ones, undertsanding that something that is 3 stars in the shop isn't bad, it's because people didn't like the price, or the color or whatever.

Even say there is a person that is misinformed and comments something that is out of bound. Maybe it's a good opportunity for the dev to express the misunderstanding and reply so that people who'd fall for it can learn about it, and can also see the dev is reachable for future support.

Yeah I see that happen often in the Apple App store. Very helpful. One additional downside with the Propellerhead shop rating system is you can't change a rating! In the Apple App store, someone can make a 1 star review, say, "This keeps crashing, fix it!" And the dev will respond, get info, fix it, and then that user can change their rating. The Propellerhead shop could thrive with more customer & developer interactions, by way of reviews and comments.

[platzangst]

Yeah I see that happen often in the Apple App store. Very helpful. One additional downside with the Propellerhead shop rating system is you can't change a rating! In the Apple App store, someone can make a 1 star review, say, "This keeps crashing, fix it!" And the dev will respond, get info, fix it, and then that user can change their rating. The Propellerhead shop could thrive with more customer & developer interactions, by way of reviews and comments.

There's two things that come to mind reading this thread:

1. Any alteration to the current rating system would have to be coded/programmed, by people who would have to have sufficient motivation to do so (or to spend the money to hire someone to do so). I don't know whether PH is or could be so motivated. It's an effort to do this thing.

2. Speaking to motivation, it's worth remembering that the reason we have ReasonTalk is because PH closed down their own official PH forums, and while they have denied that had anything to do with the rather high levels of negativity that would crop up there, it's difficult to imagine it had nothing to do with it. I could see PH being a bit leery of opening up comments on the products for sale on their site, considering how some folks see nothing wrong with leading with zero tact and understanding when making a criticism. I have heard enough accusations of outright criminality leveled towards PH themselves that, if it were me, I'd think long and hard about letting such people run their mouths on the place where I do my business.

[reddust]

I think I can offer an alternative definition of the Internet: a place where people who don't know as much as they think spend too much time talking.

doesn't that apply to the whole world in general as well?

[reddust]

I honestly don't see any need for a comment section in the PHs shop, the rating system is for me enough and if I want to know more about a concrete RE or ReFill I would ask here or in other forums.

I think comments on shops are more suitable for big enterprises who sell any kind of product to any kind of people like amazon or app stores like the ones from apple or microsoft which can afford that kind of implementation and customer service, but PHs? I think they should invest their time and money in improving Reason and upcoming REs rather than the maintenance of such a customer service which would imply a lot of content about third party software

[JiggeryPokery]

I honestly don't see any need for a comment section in the PHs shop, the rating system is for me enough and if I want to know more about a concrete RE or ReFill I would ask here or in other forums.

So how do you tell between five different compressors all rated 4?

Sure, you and those of us who visit here regularly might come and ask, or query people on Facebook, but most probably don't.

The star system alone is a bit pants. It made a modicum of sense, perhaps, when they included point values, as at least you could compare relative values inbetween. So you'd see a 4.4 and could see another at 3.6, indicating a signficant difference in rating. But Props decided to muddy the waters and remove those—and this wasn't a decision made in error, it was designed expressly to end up with this result because there's no reason to remove it from a technical point of view as it was functioning as intended. So both those examples, nearly a whole star apart would now read a rating a 4, making the less well-received device in rating look far better than the market considers it to be, while substantially weakening the rating for a device other-wise well-liked and bordering on *****

And to compound this, by showing the actual number of ratings instead, it just makes most things look really unpopular, revealing how few people actually bother rating devices whether they like them or not.

As a result, what you have is nearly all devices in the shop rated **** in a wall of plugins, so arguably nothing really stands out, and the truly bad devices don't really sink to the bottom. The point calculation may (I mean, one would hope it is) still be in the equation for "Sort by Highest Rating", but as it's internal, as far as the prospective buyer is concerned that really-3.6 device is still the rating equivalent to the really-4.4 one even though it might be two pages of scrolling further down.

Yes, so devices ratings in the PropShop need comments. And yes, some people will be rude and some stupid and a few will try and game it, but ultimately wisdom of crowds prevails. So, yes, Props will have to moderate them to an extent. Oh dear, how sad, never mind! Who'd have thought earning up to 50% on each sale might actually require someone do some work to maintain the place?

[reddust]

So how do you tell between five different compressors all rated 4. Sure, you and those of us who visit here regularly might come here, or ask on Facebook, but most probably don't.

The star system alone is a bit pants. It made a modicum of sense, perhaps, when they included point values, as at least you could compare relative values inbetween. Sso you'd see a 4.4 and could see another at 3.6, indicating a signficant difference in rating. But Props decided to muddy the waters and remove those—and this wasn't a decision made in error, it was designed expressly to end up with this result because there's no reason to remove it from a technical point of view as it was functioning as intended. So both those examples, nearly a whole star apart would now read a rating a 4, making the less well-received device in rating look far better than its the market considers it to be, while substantially weakening the rating for a device other-wise well-liked.

And to compound this, by showing the actual number of ratings instead, it just makes most things look really unpopular, revealing how few people actually bother rating even devices whether they like them or not.

As a result, what you have is nearly all devices in the shop rated **** in a wall of plugins, so arguably nothing really stands out, and the truly bad devices don't really sink to the bottom. The point calculation may (I mean, one would hope it is) still be in the equation for "Sort by Highest Rating", but as it's internal, as far as the prospective buyer is concerned that really 3.6 device is still the rating equivalent to the 4.4 one even though it might be two pages of scrolling further down.

Yes, so devices need comments. Yes, some people will be rude. Yes, Props will have to moderate them. Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Who'd have thought earning up to 50% on each sale might actually require someone do some work to maintain the place?

Well, actually the stars are just a light orientation for me and nothing else, I'm personally never taking decisions between X number of compressors or whatever other extension based on how many stars or good comments they get but by looking at its features, what other users say is always subjective, anyone has his/her own preferences and not because many people like a plugin it means it's the right one for you.

So for me the stars are enough information because I would only do further research if I see a RE I want to buy has just one or two stars, then I can start searching on the internet why that could be the case and see if it's really a bad designed RE or if it just was one guy who bought it and didn't like it.

On the other hand, people commenting on Rack Extensions could have undesired side effects. For example a Rack Extension who wasn't very good in its first version gets a lot of bad comments and with further updates that RE becomes actually a pretty good one, the bad comments could have a bigger impact than just a one or two stars vote, specially because people tend to get more active when they're pissed off by something that bothers them and I can imagine more users writing bad reviews when there is something to complain about than users taking time to write a good review when everything works as expected.

For me putting that kind of comments inside the PHs shop is really not relevant and people should take time to think and research before buying a plugin or rack extension, so in my opinion PHs should really concentrate their money and development time in their software rather than a comment section, specially because we have a dedicated forum like this where we can read reviews and ask other users about any rack extension before buying.

[reasonsuser88]

My two cents. Comments would have little to no value to me. I frequent the Plugin Alliance shop and I don't put too much weight on the feedback there. "Amazing compressor! Great vibe and punch!" That kind of feedback doesn't do anything for me. Don't get me started on the goofballs in the Facebook groups who hype up every RE or plugin that gets released. I wouldn't be quick to trust a rating system either. Too many people rate things while considering irrelevant aspects that don't pertain to objective application. Forums are great for all kinds of feedback. The product description is more helpful than what most people have to say about anything. Trying the plugin or RE for yourself should always be considered too.

[bxbrkrz]

30 days for trying a product is not enough?

Apple is a company with nearly infinite deep pockets. Not the case with PH. How much will it cost to have a mod crew reading, cleaning up the comment section for every RE, all the time?

The devs could, perhaps, have a link on their PH Store to their blog on their website where people could interact there. No extra stress for PH, and direct feedback and reviews on the dev's platform, at their cost, on their own time cleaning up their comment section, for their product, over there.

My humble suggestion.

[reasonsuser88]

30 days for trying a product is not enough?

Amazing! Sounds great! Fits right into the mix! Nice punch!

[owlymane]

So how do you tell between five different compressors all rated 4?

Sure, you and those of us who visit here regularly might come and ask, or query people on Facebook, but most probably don't.

The star system alone is a bit pants. It made a modicum of sense, perhaps, when they included point values, as at least you could compare relative values inbetween. So you'd see a 4.4 and could see another at 3.6, indicating a signficant difference in rating. But Props decided to muddy the waters and remove those—and this wasn't a decision made in error, it was designed expressly to end up with this result because there's no reason to remove it from a technical point of view as it was functioning as intended. So both those examples, nearly a whole star apart would now read a rating a 4, making the less well-received device in rating look far better than the market considers it to be, while substantially weakening the rating for a device other-wise well-liked and bordering on *****

And to compound this, by showing the actual number of ratings instead, it just makes most things look really unpopular, revealing how few people actually bother rating devices whether they like them or not.

As a result, what you have is nearly all devices in the shop rated **** in a wall of plugins, so arguably nothing really stands out, and the truly bad devices don't really sink to the bottom. The point calculation may (I mean, one would hope it is) still be in the equation for "Sort by Highest Rating", but as it's internal, as far as the prospective buyer is concerned that really-3.6 device is still the rating equivalent to the really-4.4 one even though it might be two pages of scrolling further down.

Yes, so devices ratings in the PropShop need comments. And yes, some people will be rude and some stupid and a few will try and game it, but ultimately wisdom of crowds prevails. So, yes, Props will have to moderate them to an extent. Oh dear, how sad, never mind! Who'd have thought earning up to 50% on each sale might actually require someone do some work to maintain the place?

I agree with every point

[reddust]

I don’t, I rather agree with this...

My two cents. Comments would have little to no value to me. I frequent the Plugin Alliance shop and I don't put too much weight on the feedback there. "Amazing compressor! Great vibe and punch!" That kind of feedback doesn't do anything for me. Don't get me started on the goofballs in the Facebook groups who hype up every RE or plugin that gets released. I wouldn't be quick to trust a rating system either. Too many people rate things while considering irrelevant aspects that don't pertain to objective application. Forums are great for all kinds of feedback. The product description is more helpful than what most people have to say about anything. Trying the plugin or RE for yourself should always be considered too.

and this...

30 days for trying a product is not enough?

Apple is a company with nearly infinite deep pockets. Not the case with PH. How much will it cost to have a mod crew reading, cleaning up the comment section for every RE, all the time?

The devs could, perhaps, have a link on their PH Store to their blog on their website where people could interact there. No extra stress for PH, and direct feedback and reviews on the dev's platform, at their cost, on their own time cleaning up their comment section, for their product, over there.

My humble suggestion.

[owlymane]

I agree with those as well. I think everybody's making sense here. But the difference is that Propellerhead has managed to have a niche market and a very solid ecosystem. For the sake of example I'll take Plugin Alliance. Plugin Alliance sells products from different companies whereas Props sells mostly REs and Refills, which are both Props products. Another thing, there are fewer people that use reason compared to the massive amount of people who visit plugin shops. I think we'd all be surprised of how much constructive feedback props customers can have.

And regarding 30-days trial, it's definitely more than enough, but seeing a relevant rating can avoid you from wasting time on a product. Let me give you a solid example about that:

There was this matrix-step sequencer style in the shop (sorry forgot the name), if there was a comments section mentioning that the device cannot "copy patterns to track", it would have saved me from trying the product and realizing this by myself.

[bxbrkrz]

I agree with those as well. I think everybody's making sense here. But the difference is that Propellerhead has managed to have a niche market and a very solid ecosystem. For the sake of example I'll take Plugin Alliance. Plugin Alliance sells products from different companies whereas Props sells mostly REs and Refills, which are both Props products. Another thing, there are fewer people that use reason compared to the massive amount of people who visit plugin shops. I think we'd all be surprised of how much constructive feedback props customers can have.

And regarding 30-days trial, it's definitely more than enough, but seeing a relevant rating can avoid you from wasting time on a product. Let me give you a solid example about that:

There was this matrix-step sequencer style in the shop (sorry forgot the name), if there was a comments section mentioning that the device cannot "copy patterns to track", it would have saved me from trying the product and realizing this by myself.

You can also buy VSTs from the PH Store, not just Refills and REs. Then them too should have a moderated comment section.
The problem is not having a comment section or not (your example was good), but who's willing to pay for it. I certainly do not want a new 'comment tax'. Devs want it? Let them deal with PH and absorb the cost, since PH's pocket is not a magic printing money machine. Having a professional looking gateway to the dev's website from the PH Store could be best for all 3 worlds: PH, Devs, and us the consumers.

[nickb523]

If it panned out anything like the star ratings then very few people would actually use it.

[MannequinRaces]

A comment section would be nice but the 30 day trial when used effectively is all most users will need to decide if something is for them or not. If devs or Propellerhead could reset trials for new version releases it would be even better. I don’t see comment sections coming anytime soon to the shop.

[MrFigg]

A comment section would be nice but the 30 day trial when used effectively is all most users will need to decide if something is for them or not. If devs or Propellerhead could reset trials for new version releases it would be even better. I don’t see comment sections coming anytime soon to the shop.

I think they can. Maia was reset for the update.

[Belltunes]

A comment section would be nice but the 30 day trial when used effectively is all most users will need to decide if something is for them or not. If devs or Propellerhead could reset trials for new version releases it would be even better. I don’t see comment sections coming anytime soon to the shop.

I think they can. Maia was reset for the update.

I think trials are the best way to go to inform a purchase. If an RE works or doesn't work for the prospective buyer then that is the ultimate test imho.

[jappe]

I'd love to have a comments section for each rating. My standard procedure before buying electronics etc is to check the ratings on Amazon, but also check the 5-star and 1-star reviews to see typical reasons for the ratings.
Checking the comments would get me a quicker overview of the products than trialing all potential products

[mjxl]

P L S no. I think it's a better idea if the developers themselves link to the threads here, if they want to ofcourse.