Umpf - does it sound worse than redrum in default?

[tobypearce]

I get the same thing regarding the sequencer. Someone at the top of the thread advised to use the sequencer rather than triggering within device, but when I did that over a looped bar and tried the null test between kong and redrum the hits sounded different from each other - some null more than others.

To my ears Redrum is getting the closest to the original sound of the sample (e.g. when auditioning in Reason's browser). Kong is pretty similar. Umpf on the other hand, steals energy from the transient in a worrying way.

[tobypearce]

Also, the original kick I used was 24bit so I converted to 16bit to see if this made a difference (theory above that redrum downsamples).

Same result with 16bit sample.

[friday]

This makes me unsure now, could not someone from Probellerheads take a quick look here. I expect that, except the volume, the same samples in both players should be played equal. If the test with the transient, mentioned above, is really true, then that would be massive differences?

[diminished]

I'm also quite surprised and would like to know why. The only explanation I have is that there is some always-on but dialed down filtering happening, so you don't introduce additional delay once you turn the knobs.
Why is the Gibbs phenomenon more pronounced in Redrum and what the heck is that sinc function thing in Umpf. Is that a relic of the transient shaper?

[selig]

Redrum has always behaved that way since dinosaur times, it's a feature.

Filed a bug report in 2011: Make ReDrum Sample Accurate. I’m not holding my breath!

[selig]

I checked this, and yes there is a 1-2ms attack time on Umpf that is not present on ReDrum or Kong.
I reported it as a bug, hopefully it can/will be addressed without affecting backwards compatibility.

[esselfortium]

Redrum has always behaved that way since dinosaur times, it's a feature.

Filed a bug report in 2011: Make ReDrum Sample Accurate. I’m not holding my breath!

I was referring to the way that Redrum notes in gate mode stop on sequencer note-off, sorry for the confusion.

[dioxide]

I reported it as a bug, hopefully it can/will be addressed without affecting backwards compatibility.

Me too

[riemac]

I reported it as a bug, hopefully it can/will be addressed without affecting backwards compatibility.

Me too

I hope Propellerhead will fix this error. At the moment I‘m back at using Kong instead of Umph.

[diminished]

I checked this, and yes there is a 1-2ms attack time on Umpf that is not present on ReDrum or Kong.
I reported it as a bug, hopefully it can/will be addressed without affecting backwards compatibility.

Have you received any updates on the matter, selig?

[selig]

I checked this, and yes there is a 1-2ms attack time on Umpf that is not present on ReDrum or Kong.
I reported it as a bug, hopefully it can/will be addressed without affecting backwards compatibility.

Have you received any updates on the matter, selig?

No, not yet. But response times are understandably slower for devices not currently in testing than for devices being beta tested.

[diminished]

Have you received any updates on the matter, selig?

No, not yet. But response times are understandably slower for devices not currently in testing than for devices being beta tested.

That's... an interesting statement?

[tobypearce]

I do wish they'd sort it out. The bug means I gravitate away from what is otherwise a great device.

[riemac]

I do wish they'd sort it out. The bug means I gravitate away from what is otherwise a great device.

Yes, I am waiting for a fix as well. At the moment I only use Kong instead.

@ Selig: Did you hear something about your ticket from Reason Studios?

[friday]

I also would like to get a fix, or even a feedback from RS. For the moment I won't use umpf

[Arjanders]

Is there any news on this matter?

[tobypearce]

Same here. Transients on drums = pretty important. I'm not in love with using a device that removes a bit of them before I even get started.

[riemac]

Same here. Transients on drums = pretty important. I'm not in love with using a device that removes a bit of them before I even get started.

Hi Toby, what do you use for drums instead, Kong?
I've visited your "one track per week" homepage today, very impressive content! Keep up the good work.

[Ulpu]

It seems at least Umpf Club and Umpf Retro do null.

D.

Hmm... So Umpf Club works ”fine”?

[tobypearce]

[/quote]

Hi Toby, what do you use for drums instead, Kong?
I've visited your "one track per week" homepage today, very impressive content! Keep up the good work.
[/quote]

Thanks so much! Kong and ReDrum are both fine for me

[gregmarksimpson]

Same here. Transients on drums = pretty important. I'm not in love with using a device that removes a bit of them before I even get started.

Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but I actually quite like what Umpf does to transients. I often cut very hard sliced samples directly out of master tracks and load them into Umpf to manipulate and modulate, and that very slight softening of the sample automatically makes it perfect for workflow on doing this. If I need a greater transient on the hit I can add it in through a different device loading that same sample start or perhaps something else can create the transient; a synth with white noise modified for example. It pays to be creative until you get the sound you like. Sometimes I arrange samples directly in the sequencer for a different take on doing things.

Different tools for different jobs. I often will load the same sample into an Umpf, Kong and Redrum and play about with all three until I find which device best suits that trigger. Sometimes I keep it loaded in multiple devices and blend the variations of that samples together to create something I couldn't have done in just one of those devices alone.

I like Umpf just the way it is, with all its quirks.

[Chizmata]

Strange thing tonight.

I was searching for a new kick drum and noticed that when I load the same kick into redrum and umpf they sound noticeably different.
Both devices are initialised, the rack is otherwise completely empty.

To my ears Umpf sounds much duller, like with a lpf (which isn't enabled). Sending the kick into the compression route brings back some bite, but it still doesn't sound the same as the straight kick being played through Redrum.

Can anyone replicate this or let me know what's going on?

in the umpf retro, the tape compression is always on. maybe thats the problem?

[selig]

Same here. Transients on drums = pretty important. I'm not in love with using a device that removes a bit of them before I even get started.

Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but I actually quite like what Umpf does to transients. I often cut very hard sliced samples directly out of master tracks and load them into Umpf to manipulate and modulate, and that very slight softening of the sample automatically makes it perfect for workflow on doing this. If I need a greater transient on the hit I can add it in through a different device loading that same sample start or perhaps something else can create the transient; a synth with white noise modified for example. It pays to be creative until you get the sound you like. Sometimes I arrange samples directly in the sequencer for a different take on doing things.

Different tools for different jobs. I often will load the same sample into an Umpf, Kong and Redrum and play about with all three until I find which device best suits that trigger. Sometimes I keep it loaded in multiple devices and blend the variations of that samples together to create something I couldn't have done in just one of those devices alone.

I like Umpf just the way it is, with all its quirks.

I like it too, but not on EVERYTHING, just like I like pepper but not on EVERYTHING. The solution is to add a switch to allow the OPTION of using this effect IMO.

[riemac]

Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but I actually quite like what Umpf does to transients. I often cut very hard sliced samples directly out of master tracks and load them into Umpf to manipulate and modulate, and that very slight softening of the sample automatically makes it perfect for workflow on doing this. If I need a greater transient on the hit I can add it in through a different device loading that same sample start or perhaps something else can create the transient; a synth with white noise modified for example. It pays to be creative until you get the sound you like. Sometimes I arrange samples directly in the sequencer for a different take on doing things.

Different tools for different jobs. I often will load the same sample into an Umpf, Kong and Redrum and play about with all three until I find which device best suits that trigger. Sometimes I keep it loaded in multiple devices and blend the variations of that samples together to create something I couldn't have done in just one of those devices alone.

I like Umpf just the way it is, with all its quirks.

I like it too, but not on EVERYTHING, just like I like pepper but not on EVERYTHING. The solution is to add a switch to allow the OPTION of using this effect IMO.

With other words, you didn't hear anything from Reason studios about your ticket?

[gregmarksimpson]

I like Umpf just the way it is, with all its quirks.

I like it too, but not on EVERYTHING, just like I like pepper but not on EVERYTHING. The solution is to add a switch to allow the OPTION of using this effect IMO.

Have we even had confirmation that this is a bug? It may be doing this by design to give Umpf a certain sound. After all, it was the lack of accuracy and the imparting of certain characteristics that gave MPCs their signature sound; perhaps Umpf is supposed to this way intentionally.