Propellerheads PolyStep Sequencer

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Andy
Posts: 76
Joined: 03 May 2017

Post 07 Jun 2019

dusan.cani wrote:
07 Jun 2019
If the player generates/creates/develops music melody/sequence without any your participation or effort, then what is it all about ?

If someone is not be able to create and develop his/her own melody/music theme, than we can conclude that this person is not music composer.
What instruments do you play?


Now as far as these features belong in the sequencer. Well, I like the option of creating sequences in the Rack and using the Sequencer for arranging later. With these players I simpler sketch out ideas without the need to fiddle around jumping back and forth between the rack and the sequencer. The Players are far more intuitive for me.

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diminished
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Post 07 Jun 2019

A terrible amount of gatekeeping in this thread.

If you don't carve your own flutes from hard wood, you're not allowed to hire an orchestra and therefore are not a composer.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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QVprod
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Post 07 Jun 2019

antic604 wrote:
07 Jun 2019
Undistraction wrote:
07 Jun 2019
FWIW I love and make generative music, but there is something that irks me about these kind of features. Making music should be hard. It should involve blood and sweat and soul. To me this is just a hairs breadth from somewhere that involves none of those things...
Until there I thought this was a sarcastic post.

So, are you saying that people who can play / sing and record all the parts for their music have it too easy as well? :shock: :? :roll:
As a person who can do all those things, I can tell you it takes effort to be able to do it all in the first place. Not at all comparable to using a player device. Nonetheless I think the argument against player is silly. Music making shouldn't be hard but whether a player is even useful in the first place is highly dependent on what genre of music you make, and if that happens to be electronic, then most people don't care about your musician chops anyway. Those of us making 'musician music' can't use a player to do it as there are human nuances these devices, as well as plugins like Scaler or Captain chords just can't emulate. Still using these tools is still far more involved than pressing a button.

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craven
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Post 07 Jun 2019

I keep getting Captain Chords ads on youtube. Who has any experience with that plugin? I assume it won't work within reason due to VST midi limitations.
:ugeek:

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mon
Posts: 164
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 07 Jun 2019

diminished wrote:
07 Jun 2019
A terrible amount of gatekeeping in this thread.

If you don't carve your own flutes from hard wood, you're not allowed to hire an orchestra and therefore are not a composer.
Cannot agree more!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
:reason: 10+
:recycle: :re: :refillpacker:

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decoder
Posts: 86
Joined: 04 Nov 2016

Post 07 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019
decoder wrote:
06 Jun 2019
If you do not like a device, there are some simple steps to solve everything.
1) Ignore the device
2) Do not purchase the device
3) Go do something else that does not involve the device.

That is all :roll:
Ok?
Did I say I had a problem with the device?

I at least talked about the features and how they would nicely fit into the core program.

Your comment doesn't even contribute an opinion on the device or anything near that the topic is about. Kinda hypocritical eh?

I know better then to even be replying to your comment, but you essentially telling me to beat it in a public post and not just PM me that I'm somehow bothering you is foolish on your part.

Hope you have a brighter day tomorrow.
Sorry Lux, in no way was that comment directed to you personally... Please accept my humble apology.

I meant for that to be a general statement towards the hateful posters who only comment to be negative... And surprise! I became a giant hypocrite by allowing what I would consider "repeat offenders" regarding Props and the REs to get under my skin.

It was a rough day outside this forum and I unfortunately took it out on the wrong people. All I wanted to do was find some unbiased information about this new player. I feel like 75% of the conversation in these "reviews" are just garbage talk.
My main problem is with people who have no constructive criticism of a product, only bullshit comments just because they're anonymous and can get away with it in the context of a public forum.

I dunno, maybe I don't have the patience for this anymore. Sorry for the rant...

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hurricane
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Post 07 Jun 2019

To the non traditional musicians using Players - so what happens when you get stripped of all your players? Would you still be able to "make" music? Like, with these new player releases, are you all of a sudden making music now or what? I'd like to hear your new stuff, out of genuine curiosity.
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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chimp_spanner
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Post 07 Jun 2019

hurricane wrote:
07 Jun 2019
To the non traditional musicians using Players - so what happens when you get stripped of all your players? Would you still be able to "make" music? Like, with these new player releases, are you all of a sudden making music now or what? I'd like to hear your new stuff, out of genuine curiosity.
But why would that happen? You could ask the same of anyone here; what happens if we take your computer away? Yeah I’m sure some of us play instruments but what are we gonna do; dig out our reel to reel, razor blade and pencil? Hmmm.

fretshot7
Posts: 485
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 07 Jun 2019

I probably need to RTFM, but I don't understand how to use it.
Seems far easier to use the real sequencer along with chords and scales... what am I missing?
The window is limited in the player you can't see whats going on, and are you supposed to be able to do single note chords like in Chord and Scales player?
Playing stuff and fiddling with the midi in the real sequencer seems so much easier than fiddling with the midi in this player.

I am hoping the new tonicmint chord player is what im looking for and am looking forward to trialing it.
Maybe it works with well this sequencer player and will open it up to me.

It is fantastic being able to trial before you buy!

retreed
Posts: 172
Joined: 18 Sep 2018

Post 07 Jun 2019

hurricane wrote:
07 Jun 2019
To the non traditional musicians using Players - so what happens when you get stripped of all your players? Would you still be able to "make" music? Like, with these new player releases, are you all of a sudden making music now or what? I'd like to hear your new stuff, out of genuine curiosity.
Some people can draw, cook or make music without traditional education because they have a good feeling for what looks, tastes or sounds good for most people. Some also only believe they have a feeling for it, but at least they have fun in the process. So let them do, let them use players, smash their head on a keyboard or whatever does the trick. :thumbs_up:

I think everyone benefits from developers adding interesting new devices to the rack. And since no one is forced to buy all the stuff, nothing is wrong with that since choice is a good thing.

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pushedbutton
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Location: Lancashire, UK

Post 07 Jun 2019

look at all you plebs using software someone else wrote. It's as if everyone's forgotten how to compile machine code with punch cards.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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hurricane
Posts: 1494
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Post 07 Jun 2019

chimp_spanner wrote:
07 Jun 2019
But why would that happen? You could ask the same of anyone here; what happens if we take your computer away? Yeah I’m sure some of us play instruments but what are we gonna do; dig out our reel to reel, razor blade and pencil? Hmmm.
Well no, you'd still have Reason along with all your instrument REs/VSTs. Just no Players. Now what?

I also understand that some people like to just mess around with devices and not actually make music, and that in itself is fun, but I want to specifically talk about those people who are using Players as actual musical aids. Cuz I imagine that's one of the reasons these players exist - to actually help you in the writing process. And I'm talking to you - Mr. "I Don't Know Any Music Theory and I Can't Play Any Instruments Either" - are you making more music NOW and is it any better than the stuff you were making before???
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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guitfnky
Posts: 2688
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Post 07 Jun 2019

antic604 wrote:
07 Jun 2019
guitfnky wrote:
07 Jun 2019
I think the argument for incorporating much of this stuff directly into the sequencer is weak. I understand the underpinnings of why doing so might make sense on a surface level (hey, more features can’t be bad, right?)—but the point of a DAW is to provide a wide range of tools and features to as wide an audience as possible. Rack Extensions, VSTs, and Players are meant to personalize what you can do with the DAW. incorporating features that many/most users will not use would add unnecessary bloat to the core program.

many of these Players do some really incredible and inventive things, but most of the features they provide arguably wouldn’t add much/any value for most users.
You mean like 90% of the options under F8 or Comp Edit are "unnecessary bloat" for me? I never used them, yet they're right there! But I'm not complaining they should be removed - if I don't need something, I just ignore it and don't use it.
like which options? I haven’t been able to boot up Reason for a couple of weeks due to a move, so I can’t check myself, but aren’t most of those options fairly common, but difficult or impossible to accomplish without using F8? like abutting all of your MIDI notes, randomizing timing, or scaling velocities? those don’t strike me as bloat because they’re common enough, and because there’s no other way to easily accomplish them.

and of course not everyone is going to use every feature. I’m with you on the “I don’t need it, so I’ll just ignore it” thing. I’m only saying Props has to strike a balance between which features are part of the base software, and those that certain subsets of people may want, but others may not. taking it to the extreme, as an example, if they decided to implement all the features people have asked for over the years, there’d come a point where the “I don’t need it, so I’ll just ignore it” folks like ourselves wouldn’t be able to just ignore it anymore, because there would be too much stuff to have to deal with.

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1457
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 07 Jun 2019

I wish they would update the drum sequencer with some of the functionality from this player.

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Mar 2016

Post 07 Jun 2019

decoder wrote:
07 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019


Ok?
Did I say I had a problem with the device?

I at least talked about the features and how they would nicely fit into the core program.

Your comment doesn't even contribute an opinion on the device or anything near that the topic is about. Kinda hypocritical eh?

I know better then to even be replying to your comment, but you essentially telling me to beat it in a public post and not just PM me that I'm somehow bothering you is foolish on your part.

Hope you have a brighter day tomorrow.
Sorry Lux, in no way was that comment directed to you personally... Please accept my humble apology.

I meant for that to be a general statement towards the hateful posters who only comment to be negative... And surprise! I became a giant hypocrite by allowing what I would consider "repeat offenders" regarding Props and the REs to get under my skin.

It was a rough day outside this forum and I unfortunately took it out on the wrong people. All I wanted to do was find some unbiased information about this new player. I feel like 75% of the conversation in these "reviews" are just garbage talk.
My main problem is with people who have no constructive criticism of a product, only bullshit comments just because they're anonymous and can get away with it in the context of a public forum.

I dunno, maybe I don't have the patience for this anymore. Sorry for the rant...
Apology accepted!
I figured by the tone that it must've been a rough day.

Look, I'm sorry I steered the conversation away from the focus of the player. I work with a lot of hip hop producers and let me tell you, they don't know anything about music theory, sound design, or the ability to play instruments but damn they can make some good beats. Some sample vinyl, some solely use presents it don't matter to me. They listen to good music so they know how to replicate good music with their instrument which essentially is called a "DAW".

I don't care that this player makes it easier to make music. The knowledge and understanding I learnt for music makes me feel good that I can spot what key/scale a song is in, but it doesn't mean I'm better off then someone who can mess around not knowing what they are doing and make a beat that makes it to top 40. Music is about having fun and hopefully learning what works for you along the way. In the end, we all have opinions on each other's music that varies from amazing to not quiet there yet to utter bad so don't quit your day job. I hope to the creator they at least enjoy their own music because that's all that matters. I play my shit all the time, might not make everyone happy but it makes me happy.

We're all passionate about Reason. PHeads will keep making players to help an assortment of non musicians who will eventually learn music by using their devices and already skilled musicians will either use them because they are workflow enhancers or pass and just use their knowledge with other means of making music.

I love Reason's core program so much. I really want to see it grow, but unfortunately it's not my baby so I don't control it's growth. My criticism is my emotions reflecting on the strong opinion that I dislike the venture capital practices that are rubbing off on the company. Possibly even before the VC's, PHeads really just doesn't have the business-consumer relationship that big fanboys like myself want out of them. I think the lack of communication promotes speculations and bitterness every time something cool comes out "on the side" with a hefty price tag. I really do believe they put profits over making the product the best damn thing out there. A company with good PR would see that their customers are ranting about an outdated sequencer and say they are listening and may work on it or give us an anserr to how they want their baby to grow. If the former: provide a fix for free or bundle it with other features to equate to reasonable paid upgrade.

I'm going to strike a chord with some of you with this comment but, this would have been a great device to release as a freebie, as a 10.5 update to calm the ranting until the "core" Dev team catches up with whatever improvements they got for us in the sequencer.

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guitfnky
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Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 07 Jun 2019

regarding the Players argument: at the end of the day, a good piece of music is created by the decisions that are made along the way, not the tools that are used. if you haven’t developed good musical judgement, your music’s usually going to sound bad regardless of whether you played it yourself on a guitar, or used a bunch of generative Players to finish it. and even an incredible level of proficiency with the instrument, with the Player, or with music theory won’t do much to save it.

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artotaku
Posts: 509
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Location: Munich, Germany

Post 07 Jun 2019

hurricane wrote:
07 Jun 2019
chimp_spanner wrote:
07 Jun 2019
But why would that happen? You could ask the same of anyone here; what happens if we take your computer away? Yeah I’m sure some of us play instruments but what are we gonna do; dig out our reel to reel, razor blade and pencil? Hmmm.
Well no, you'd still have Reason along with all your instrument REs/VSTs. Just no Players. Now what?

I also understand that some people like to just mess around with devices and not actually make music, and that in itself is fun, but I want to specifically talk about those people who are using Players as actual musical aids. Cuz I imagine that's one of the reasons these players exist - to actually help you in the writing process. And I'm talking to you - Mr. "I Don't Know Any Music Theory and I Can't Play Any Instruments Either" - are you making more music NOW and is it any better than the stuff you were making before???
I make more 4 to 8 bar loops now ;-) but haven´t finished any song a while ago. I think players are fun and inspiring and you get down a sketch very fast but I am skeptical if they help me getting a complete song done.

For sure I touch the sequencer not that often anymore and sometimes I go so far to automate the players from the sequencer so no actual midi notes are on the sequencer anymore.

To give an example this is what I came up of short loops using players in the past days. These are in no way musically brilliant or better what I did without players but players helped getting ideas down.

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 1457
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 07 Jun 2019

Yeah, regarding the players debate: it is all about taste. You can know all the theory in the world, or all the players in the world that make music for you. All of that is utterly useless if you don't have the taste to know what sounds good and can move others. Period.

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hurricane
Posts: 1494
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Post 07 Jun 2019

artotaku wrote:
07 Jun 2019
Love your sound. :thumbs_up:
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2501
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 07 Jun 2019

artotaku wrote:
07 Jun 2019
hurricane wrote:
07 Jun 2019


Well no, you'd still have Reason along with all your instrument REs/VSTs. Just no Players. Now what?

I also understand that some people like to just mess around with devices and not actually make music, and that in itself is fun, but I want to specifically talk about those people who are using Players as actual musical aids. Cuz I imagine that's one of the reasons these players exist - to actually help you in the writing process. And I'm talking to you - Mr. "I Don't Know Any Music Theory and I Can't Play Any Instruments Either" - are you making more music NOW and is it any better than the stuff you were making before???
I make more 4 to 8 bar loops now ;-) but haven´t finished any song a while ago. I think players are fun and inspiring and you get down a sketch very fast but I am skeptical if they help me getting a complete song done.

For sure I touch the sequencer not that often anymore and sometimes I go so far to automate the players from the sequencer so no actual midi notes are on the sequencer anymore.

To give an example this is what I came up of short loops using players in the past days. These are in no way musically brilliant or better what I did without players but players helped getting ideas down.
Definitely develop these! They’re sounding really good.

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reddust
Posts: 676
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 07 Jun 2019

craven wrote:
07 Jun 2019
I keep getting Captain Chords ads on youtube. Who has any experience with that plugin? I assume it won't work within reason due to VST midi limitations.
Not sure about captain chords but I am using Scaler by plugin boutique as well as mixedinkey without any issues

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BRIGGS
Posts: 1036
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 07 Jun 2019

diminished wrote:
07 Jun 2019
A terrible amount of gatekeeping in this thread.

If you don't carve your own flutes from hard wood, you're not allowed to hire an orchestra and therefore are not a composer.
I loled!!! :thumbs_up: :puf_smile:
R11 Suite

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BRIGGS
Posts: 1036
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Location: Orange County California

Post 07 Jun 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
07 Jun 2019
I wish they would update the drum sequencer with some of the functionality from this player.
Like 'per note' slides aka timing adjustments? Groovy! :puf_smile:

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djadalaide
Posts: 217
Joined: 11 May 2018

Post 08 Jun 2019

fretshot7 wrote:
07 Jun 2019

The window is limited in the player you can't see whats going on, and are you supposed to be able to do single note chords like in Chord and Scales player?
Drag the edge of a note upwards to the right, it becomes a chord.


antic604

Post 08 Jun 2019

guitfnky wrote:
07 Jun 2019
like which options? I haven’t been able to boot up Reason for a couple of weeks due to a move, so I can’t check myself, but aren’t most of those options fairly common, but difficult or impossible to accomplish without using F8? like abutting all of your MIDI notes, randomizing timing, or scaling velocities? those don’t strike me as bloat because they’re common enough, and because there’s no other way to easily accomplish them.
They might be common for you. In 1.5 years time I use Reason, I perhaps hit F8 two or three times. I don't need it.

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