Propellerheads PolyStep Sequencer

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Mar 2016

Post 06 Jun 2019

I don't have any opinions on the player itself but the after thought of PHeads releasing these features as a player.

Why even make a player to begin with? A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for a sequencer updates with similar features that have been incorporated into this player.

It makes me think that either A. the core foundation of Reason' code is so jank that no one wants to fuck with it (VST improvement update shouldn't have taken as long as it did to tweak buffer size) so for them it's easier to build a module like this off of newer code built for player devices or B. they really are desperate in maximizing profits. At $70 dollars this player is all little over half of a reason upgrade. The player devices must be selling better then reason upgrades so why not.

That is my 2¢.

Optimistically waiting on V11 before I dive into the player game.

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boingy
Posts: 791
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Post 06 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019

Why even make a player to begin with? A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for a sequencer updates with similar features that have been incorporated into this player.
Actually, yes, you're right. Functionality that should be right there in the in the core product is being sold to us as RE add-ons. That's a bit cynical.

I'm still on R9.5 and whilst I'm eager to see what R11 will bring I have this funny feeling that R9.5 is where I will stop. All the web and mobile stuff is not for me. /shrug

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MannequinRaces
Posts: 1380
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 06 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019
I don't have any opinions on the player itself but the after thought of PHeads releasing these features as a player.

Why even make a player to begin with? A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for a sequencer updates with similar features that have been incorporated into this player.

It makes me think that either A. the core foundation of Reason' code is so jank that no one wants to fuck with it (VST improvement update shouldn't have taken as long as it did to tweak buffer size) so for them it's easier to build a module like this off of newer code built for player devices or B. they really are desperate in maximizing profits. At $70 dollars this player is all little over half of a reason upgrade. The player devices must be selling better then reason upgrades so why not.

That is my 2¢.

Optimistically waiting on V11 before I dive into the player game.
What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?

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rcbuse
RE Developer
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Location: SR388

Post 06 Jun 2019

MannequinRaces wrote:
06 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019

Why even make a player to begin with? A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for a sequencer updates with similar features that have been incorporated into this player.
What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?
Yea, I would ask the same question. While I enjoy most players out there, I wouldn't put these features on the main piano roll. I much prefer the experiment in the rack, send-to-track method. I honestly don't know what others would like to see added to the piano roll... but I could be biased, when I go into other DAWs and MIDI editors I get nothing but frustration.

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Luxuria
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Post 06 Jun 2019

MannequinRaces wrote:
06 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019
What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?
Ability to set key and scale constraints within the piano roll within the sequencer. 2 buttons added next to the endless amount of space in that strip where all the other tools are for height and form functions like in the player. Also add keyboard macros for said functions so that Control+(key) adds chords withouthaving to copy and past a note 2 additional times.

Highlighting a group of notes and click on a new arp or strum buttons in the tools strip and it does the same thing as the arp/ strum functions in the player.

Highlight specific notes and being able to use the slide feature in the sequencer would be nice instead of having to set a groove bank for the entire Lane and then commit to groove.

I personally don't think you need a player to serve the purpose of a sequencer. It's redundant and working harder not smarter.

Reason's has old quirks that we always had to use workaround for. How is this $70 dollar player not a workaround to adding functionality to the sequencer?
Last edited by Luxuria on 06 Jun 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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diminished
Posts: 1769
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 06 Jun 2019

rcbuse wrote:
06 Jun 2019
MannequinRaces wrote:
06 Jun 2019

What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?
Yea, I would ask the same question. While I enjoy most players out there, I wouldn't put these features on the main piano roll. I much prefer the experiment in the rack, send-to-track method. I honestly don't know what others would like to see added to the piano roll... but I could be biased, when I go into other DAWs and MIDI editors I get nothing but frustration.
Something like a "chord brush" would be cool. I think LMMS (lol) has a similar feature.
You'd pick your voicing, the chord type, the scale and then draw a chord. Even better if you could assign the chosen key&scale to a whole block, where every other instrument would be automatically in key..
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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diminished
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Post 06 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019

Also add keyboard macros for said functions so that Control+(key) adds chords with having to copy and past a note 2 additional times.

Highlighting a group of notes and click on a new arp or strum buttons in the tools strip and it does the same thing as the arp/ strum functions in the player.

Highlight specific notes and being able to use the slide feature in the sequencer would be nice instead of having to set a groove bank for the entire Lane and then commit to groove.
yesyesyesyes
The latter is unnecessary IMHO because you can Ctrl+Alt+Arrow already
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Mar 2016

Post 06 Jun 2019

rcbuse wrote:
06 Jun 2019
MannequinRaces wrote:
06 Jun 2019

What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?
Yea, I would ask the same question. While I enjoy most players out there, I wouldn't put these features on the main piano roll. I much prefer the experiment in the rack, send-to-track method. I honestly don't know what others would like to see added to the piano roll... but I could be biased, when I go into other DAWs and MIDI editors I get nothing but frustration.
Ok, so take for instance the Erase Tool. Shortcut (E). I don't use it, never have. If I need to erase I highlight and hit. backspace.

That doesn't mean I want it gone. I just don't use it. So let's say we add functions in that same little strip that's empty space anyways. Would you get frustrated by them simply being there or just like me and the erase tool ignore them.

And definitely rework the "Note Lane Performance Perimeter Automation" layout. It should dynamicly decrease in size with additional parameters added. I hate wasting the screen space seeing empty sequencer real-estate not being used for parameters in use.

It wouldn't hurt to also be able to customize the parameter lanes with different colors and make the devider lines thicker.
Last edited by Luxuria on 06 Jun 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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reddust
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Post 06 Jun 2019

mon wrote:
06 Jun 2019
I also appreciate the good graphics (used to work as graphic designer and I am photography enthusiast). It just happens that i really like the look of Reason. I actually preffer it than almost any other DAW i ever encountered, except maybe Renoise, which has totally different concept.
Yes, I actually prefer Reason's design more than any other DAW I've used or tested so far. I also like the direction the new devices have, it is kind of toyish but still nice to look at. I always have the impression that making music with Reason seems a little bit like playing Lego :)

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
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Post 06 Jun 2019

diminished wrote:
06 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019

Also add keyboard macros for said functions so that Control+(key) adds chords with having to copy and past a note 2 additional times.

Highlighting a group of notes and click on a new arp or strum buttons in the tools strip and it does the same thing as the arp/ strum functions in the player.

Highlight specific notes and being able to use the slide feature in the sequencer would be nice instead of having to set a groove bank for the entire Lane and then commit to groove.
yesyesyesyes
The latter is unnecessary IMHO because you can Ctrl+Alt+Arrow already
I guess "Shuffle amount" is more what I meant to say then. Which the workaround is to go into the tools window "Alter Notes" function or Quantize random if everything is already off the grid.

But yeah that makes me want to see the tools window functions be integrated within the sequencer a bit smoother. The Tool Window could use some TLC.

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diminished
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Post 06 Jun 2019

Imagine you could compose like that - global Key & Scales.
Wanna lay down a bassline? Cool, you'll automatically stay in key. Change the harmonic structure of the song? Move the blocks where you want! Change individual bars or blocks to another key? All instruments will follow!
ScaleBlocks.jpg
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:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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decoder
Posts: 86
Joined: 04 Nov 2016

Post 06 Jun 2019

If you do not like a device, there are some simple steps to solve everything.
1) Ignore the device
2) Do not purchase the device
3) Go do something else that does not involve the device.

That is all :roll:

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Mar 2016

Post 06 Jun 2019

decoder wrote:
06 Jun 2019
If you do not like a device, there are some simple steps to solve everything.
1) Ignore the device
2) Do not purchase the device
3) Go do something else that does not involve the device.

That is all :roll:
Ok?
Did I say I had a problem with the device?

I at least talked about the features and how they would nicely fit into the core program.

Your comment doesn't even contribute an opinion on the device or anything near that the topic is about. Kinda hypocritical eh?

I know better then to even be replying to your comment, but you essentially telling me to beat it in a public post and not just PM me that I'm somehow bothering you is foolish on your part.

Hope you have a brighter day tomorrow.

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mon
Posts: 164
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 07 Jun 2019

rcbuse wrote:
06 Jun 2019
... I much prefer the experiment in the rack, send-to-track method...
Totally agree with you. The main concept of Reason is based on working with real hardware. The real hardware used to be controlled by all kinds of tabletop or integrated in the devices sequencers. The players brought some of the most powerful sequencers in the environment. I am not against developing the arranger but I am a Reason user because of it’s modular nature and the players became big part of it. :reason:
:reason: 10+
:recycle: :re: :refillpacker:

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mon
Posts: 164
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post 07 Jun 2019

reddust wrote:
06 Jun 2019
Yes, I actually prefer Reason's design more than any other DAW I've used or tested so far. I also like the direction the new devices have, it is kind of toyish but still nice to look at. I always have the impression that making music with Reason seems a little bit like playing Lego :)
Exactly! The brighter colors and the friendlier style, that may be seen as toyish, don’t bother me at all. It’s a part of my music diving moments and getting away from the world full of too much serious stuff :) I share the LEGO association... actually for the last few months I am working on a concept of composing in real time in Reason by just swapping blocks of elements or contents - just like LEGO :)
:reason: 10+
:recycle: :re: :refillpacker:

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guitfnky
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Post 07 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019
How is this $70 dollar player not a workaround to adding functionality to the sequencer?
by this logic, wouldn’t every Rack Extension technically be a ‘workaround’.

“welp, can’t get X sound with Y stock compressor, so I guess I’ll have to use that workaround FET compressor again. thanks a lot, Props. 😡

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Luxuria
Posts: 135
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Post 07 Jun 2019

guitfnky wrote:
07 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019
How is this $70 dollar player not a workaround to adding functionality to the sequencer?
by this logic, wouldn’t every Rack Extension technically be a ‘workaround’.

“welp, can’t get X sound with Y stock compressor, so I guess I’ll have to use that workaround FET compressor again. thanks a lot, Props. 😡
My definition of "workaround" in this context is similar to how back before reason allowed audio, you had to treat the audio file like s sample and import it into an nnxt/nn-19, turn up the release envelope, and hold down the root note key the span of the sample.

Later on audio files were supported and the workaround wasn't needed.

Similar scenario here. Sequencer doesn't support said features so they release a player that does.

I understand how this player is cool as a "modular" device and you can stack it with other players to create complex chains while you can't do that in the sequencer.

I wouldn't mind seeing more love given to the core program. It seems like every month a new device is released by the "devices" Dev team while the "core"Dev team seems like they are understaffed by the lack of core improvements in point updates. I'd love to see more then 3 workflow features added per major version of Reason.

antic604

Post 07 Jun 2019

rcbuse wrote:
06 Jun 2019
MannequinRaces wrote:
06 Jun 2019

What features in this player have been incorporated that you’d like to see in the sequencer?
Yea, I would ask the same question. While I enjoy most players out there, I wouldn't put these features on the main piano roll. I much prefer the experiment in the rack, send-to-track method. I honestly don't know what others would like to see added to the piano roll... but I could be biased, when I go into other DAWs and MIDI editors I get nothing but frustration.
Like, almost everything the PolyStep does?
- select clip area, hit RND / Alter to insert random notes or alter existing notes respectively following the key & scale (the later can be sort of done with F8 and Scales & Chords)
- select note and drag it up with some modifier key into a chord with selectable voicing & form
- select chord and make arp or strum out of it
- add repeats and conditional / random triggers
- have the clip obey specified "local" scale & chord or a global chord track

I can't believe this isn't obvious... :shock:

But actually it wasn't for me either, until someone on FB or KvR suggested they're milking us by putting proper sequencer features into paid RE. I can sort of see how such approach fits into "Reason as a hardware device rack" paradigm, but the prospect of everything getting partitioned out to paid REs going forward sounds really bad, not to mention expensive. I mean I get the potential benefits of Players for people wanting to use PSS for e.g. live performance, but then the order should be different: 1st add the features to the main sequencer, then release a matching Player for live performance / generative music people. If I get PSS now I'll be pissed off if those features get added in v11 because I'd have paid for them twice - 1st time to fill out the existing gap, 2nd time for getting the gap filled by native functionality and making the Player useless (for me)...

I guess it's really time for Props to step up their communication game. Looking at Live or Bitwig, we're informed with at least a quarter (or two) advance of what's coming and - roughly - when. By comparison, right now we've no idea when v11 is coming and what it is - new devices & sounds like 10 was? new workflow features? new / improved GUI? all of it all at once?

Undistraction

Post 07 Jun 2019

This is just a continuation of their current trajectory. Spin everything into an RE that can be flogged to the fanboys at a massively inflated intro price. If possible spin a single product into multiple similar products. Just avoid doing any work on the core of Reason. Keep tugging on that milky teat.

They don't even put any effort into their videos any more.

As for the player, it just feels like another step towards allowing people to write music without spending the time to learn anything about writing music. To remove all creativity from the process of creating. Next stop a single button that writes you a whole track. Maybe with a genre dial.

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Loque
Posts: 7998
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 07 Jun 2019

Undistraction wrote:
07 Jun 2019
Just avoid doing any work on the core of Reason
Well, at least this is wrong since they outsourced the development of this Player. And tbh, a things of that device i would like to have in the sequencer/editor - but making it jam-like and easy changeable in a device is cool too.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

Ermitage
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Apr 2018

Post 07 Jun 2019

I could go to the hospital to fix my broken leg, but I think it'd be more innovative to put band-aids on it instead.

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Loque
Posts: 7998
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 07 Jun 2019

Ermitage wrote:
07 Jun 2019
I could go to the hospital to fix my broken leg, but I think it'd be more innovative to put band-aids on it instead.
Good for you, if you have a hospital near you, the medics have time and you have a health insurance or enough money. Than you live a good live :thumbs_up:
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:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

djadalaide
Posts: 217
Joined: 11 May 2018

Post 07 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
06 Jun 2019

Why even make a player to begin with? A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for a sequencer updates with similar features that have been incorporated into this player.
A lot of people, myself included, have been asking for (polyphonic) live sequencer functionality and have waited years for it; and two sequencer players come at once.

Breach The Sky
Posts: 203
Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 07 Jun 2019

diminished wrote:
06 Jun 2019
Imagine you could compose like that - global Key & Scales.
Wanna lay down a bassline? Cool, you'll automatically stay in key. Change the harmonic structure of the song? Move the blocks where you want! Change individual bars or blocks to another key? All instruments will follow!

ScaleBlocks.jpg
That's a good idea, actually! A bit like the "chord track" in studio one and Cubase. Pops already have all the tech to make this happen, I believe.

Breach The Sky
Posts: 203
Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 07 Jun 2019

I haven't read the manual yet, but is it possible to draw chords out off the currently selected scale? So i can prototype chord substitutions and stuff like that? Is it "advanced" enough to experiment with jazzy chord progressions?

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