Propellerhead Partners with MIND Music Labs For Rack Extension Hardware Integration

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scratchnsnifff
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Post 17 Jan 2019

So I have questions about this entire project. Putting Re to a hardware synth is kind of brilliant, because a user can use a long time used synth on the go. A very cool concept!

However, I wonder if they are going to make a synth, that has this OS on it. I just don’t want to have to buy an expensive synth to be able to use my Res. Another question as well, how do you get around having one Re like expanse and another like parsec. Where expanse has a ton of options. Is it something the user can define? Also if they make some new device I really hope they add enough knobs and faders.
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EnochLight
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Post 17 Jan 2019

scratchnsnifff wrote:
17 Jan 2019
However, I wonder if they are going to make a synth, that has this OS on it. I just don’t want to have to buy an expensive synth to be able to use my Res.
I'm pretty sure the ELK OS has to be on the hardware for this to work. Otherwise, no way to run the RE. Also, this is pure conjecture at this point, but I would assume - the whole point being to bring RE's into hardware - you would indeed be buying an allegedly expensive hardware "synth" with a particular RE on it. Or not - they could team up with Teenage Engineering and release a specialized RE as a Pocket Operator, which all sell for less than $100 USD. Or maybe Teenage Engineering could specifically make a OP-Z type controller that isn't quite as expensive as the OP-Z (seeing as how this would allegedly be just 1 rack extension as a hardware device). Or they could go full-on OP-Z with it and let said hypothetical hardware host several RE's. Or all. * Note: I'm only using Teenage Engineering as an example, since they're based pretty close to Propellerheads geographically and have experience with working with 3rd party devs (such as Magnus "Malstrom" Lidström @ Sonic Charge).
scratchnsnifff wrote:
17 Jan 2019
Another question as well, how do you get around having one Re like expanse and another like parsec. Where expanse has a ton of options. Is it something the user can define? Also if they make some new device I really hope they add enough knobs and faders.
Well, to be fair - one could argue Parsec has a ton of options as well (its obvious Custom Displays being the big one). But that's the mystery - hardware would have to be specialized for each device. Some RE's would lend themselves to easy porting to inexpensive hardware; some would require a lot of work and actual displays to get the full monty.

I truly think it will be a while before we see anything come out of this. Hopefully by the end of 2019, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until 2020 or further. Bringing hardware from the idea stage through manufacturing is a huge undertaking, no matter what you make. Electronics are difficult no matter any way you slice it (especially in today's political climate).
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joeyluck
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Post 17 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
17 Jan 2019
scratchnsnifff wrote:
17 Jan 2019
However, I wonder if they are going to make a synth, that has this OS on it. I just don’t want to have to buy an expensive synth to be able to use my Res.
I'm pretty sure the ELK OS has to be on the hardware for this to work. Otherwise, no way to run the RE. Also, this is pure conjecture at this point, but I would assume - the whole point being to bring RE's into hardware - you would indeed be buying an allegedly expensive hardware "synth" with a particular RE on it. Or not - they could team up with Teenage Engineering and release a specialized RE as a Pocket Operator, which all sell for less than $100 USD. Or maybe Teenage Engineering could specifically make a OP-Z type controller that isn't quite as expensive as the OP-Z (seeing as how this would allegedly be just 1 rack extension as a hardware device). Or they could go full-on OP-Z with it and let said hypothetical hardware host several RE's. Or all. * Note: I'm only using Teenage Engineering as an example, since they're based pretty close to Propellerheads geographically and have experience with working with 3rd party devs (such as Magnus "Malstrom" Lidström @ Sonic Charge).
scratchnsnifff wrote:
17 Jan 2019
Another question as well, how do you get around having one Re like expanse and another like parsec. Where expanse has a ton of options. Is it something the user can define? Also if they make some new device I really hope they add enough knobs and faders.
Well, to be fair - one could argue Parsec has a ton of options as well (its obvious Custom Displays being the big one). But that's the mystery - hardware would have to be specialized for each device. Some RE's would lend themselves to easy porting to inexpensive hardware; some would require a lot of work and actual displays to get the full monty.

I truly think it will be a while before we see anything come out of this. Hopefully by the end of 2019, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until 2020 or further. Bringing hardware from the idea stage through manufacturing is a huge undertaking, no matter what you make. Electronics are difficult no matter any way you slice it (especially in today's political climate).
I have a feeling that maybe we'll see something at NAMM? An early prototype maybe? Even just something to showcase the idea of it working in an early stage? Maybe even something near complete?

The unofficial announcement was made at ADC'18 mid-November, and then the official announcement was made about two months after that...which still doesn't offer much more and leaves much of it still a mystery.

And you have to imagine that the partnership was made in advance of them casually announcing two months ago, and not without putting things together to test and make it work, let alone not doing anything of that sort before an official announcement. They've certainly been playing together.

And MIND Music Labs will be at NAMM... So I have my fingers crossed they might have something fun to show, even if an early development/proof of concept.

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jayhosking
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Post 17 Jan 2019

While I'd love dedicated hardware layouts for specific REs, I suspect we'll get something much more generalized, essentially a standalone device with a number of REs on board, and a generalized layout of knobs that can be mapped differently for different REs. I hope that if they go that route, they at least keep the labelling/LEDs for each knob close to the knobs (like the new Novation SL MKIII or the AKAI Force), rather than something like Elektron or Nektar, where the knobs are off to the side and represented on an LED.

baloo
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Post 17 Jan 2019

What if hardware not be a universal controller for RE.
At minimum it include audio io, may be midi io.
What we know about ELK - devs can add to gpio any knobs buttons and displays..
what if Props realize just a pcb and devs can authorize to it concrete RE, add needed elements buttons knobs. And it’s all? Users just can buy this special boxes from dev with his limited RE for this box?

Props announce hardware, but not talk that it can be a real box as universal controller for any RE.
We also don’t know how user can run various RE and how much ?
Who sell this box - props? Or devs as custom boxes?

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buddard
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Post 18 Jan 2019

baloo wrote:
17 Jan 2019
What if hardware not be a universal controller for RE.
At minimum it include audio io, may be midi io.
What we know about ELK - devs can add to gpio any knobs buttons and displays..
what if Props realize just a pcb and devs can authorize to it concrete RE, add needed elements buttons knobs. And it’s all? Users just can buy this special boxes from dev with his limited RE for this box?

Props announce hardware, but not talk that it can be a real box as universal controller for any RE.
We also don’t know how user can run various RE and how much ?
Who sell this box - props? Or devs as custom boxes?
Props haven't announced any hardware, just the future availability of REs on the ELK OS.
Hardware will probably be made by other parties.

scratchnsnifff
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Post 18 Jan 2019

buddard wrote:
18 Jan 2019
baloo wrote:
17 Jan 2019
What if hardware not be a universal controller for RE.
At minimum it include audio io, may be midi io.
What we know about ELK - devs can add to gpio any knobs buttons and displays..
what if Props realize just a pcb and devs can authorize to it concrete RE, add needed elements buttons knobs. And it’s all? Users just can buy this special boxes from dev with his limited RE for this box?

Props announce hardware, but not talk that it can be a real box as universal controller for any RE.
We also don’t know how user can run various RE and how much ?
Who sell this box - props? Or devs as custom boxes?
Props haven't announced any hardware, just the future availability of REs on the ELK OS.
Hardware will probably be made by other parties.
Do you think they will have a booth at NAMM? I hope they release a Roland system 8 plug out sort of concept but they should have an editor that allows users to choose which parameters can be altered
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joeyluck
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Post 18 Jan 2019

scratchnsnifff wrote:
18 Jan 2019
buddard wrote:
18 Jan 2019


Props haven't announced any hardware, just the future availability of REs on the ELK OS.
Hardware will probably be made by other parties.
Do you think they will have a booth at NAMM? I hope they release a Roland system 8 plug out sort of concept but they should have an editor that allows users to choose which parameters can be altered
According to the directory, Propellerhead doesn't have a booth. But as I mentioned above, MIND Music Labs does...

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theshoemaker
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Post 18 Jan 2019

You could have a low latency multi-touch device like an IPad ... but low latency .. And I hope Props will integrate multitouch into reason.
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Post 18 Jan 2019

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jan 2019

https://www.mindmusiclabs.com/mind-musi ... KVlEfNKvJw

Called it :D
"Following up on our recent Propellerhead partnership announcement we will of course include a preview of a Propellerhead Rack Extension instrument running on hardware!"

Looking forward to seeing what it is

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EnochLight
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Post 24 Jan 2019

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jan 2019
https://www.mindmusiclabs.com/mind-musi ... KVlEfNKvJw

Called it :D
"Following up on our recent Propellerhead partnership announcement we will of course include a preview of a Propellerhead Rack Extension instrument running on hardware!"

Looking forward to seeing what it is
Want to start a betting pool? I'll throw in cash and bet it's the Korg demo that Magnus already showed in the Juice video. :D :lol:
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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
24 Jan 2019
joeyluck wrote:
24 Jan 2019
https://www.mindmusiclabs.com/mind-musi ... KVlEfNKvJw

Called it :D
"Following up on our recent Propellerhead partnership announcement we will of course include a preview of a Propellerhead Rack Extension instrument running on hardware!"

Looking forward to seeing what it is
Want to start a betting pool? I'll throw in cash and bet it's the Korg demo that Magnus already showed in the Juice video. :D :lol:
Could be? But maybe with more insight?

I think that video only has sound and doesn't offer much else. There isn't much talk about the hardware, installation, view of the graphical interface, the integration with hardware, etc.

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michal22
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Post 26 Jan 2019

Namm2019 is on. Does anyone have any information about how this tachnology looks like and what device was presented?
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EnochLight
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Post 26 Jan 2019

michal22 wrote:
26 Jan 2019
Namm2019 is on. Does anyone have any information about how this tachnology looks like and what device was presented?
We’re still waiting for an eagle-eyed attendee to post some video from the event. Hoping someone does. There’s no guarantee anyone will, though. :(
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joeyluck
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Post 26 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
26 Jan 2019
michal22 wrote:
26 Jan 2019
Namm2019 is on. Does anyone have any information about how this tachnology looks like and what device was presented?
We’re still waiting for an eagle-eyed attendee to post some video from the event. Hoping someone does. There’s no guarantee anyone will, though. :(
I replied to their post about NAMM on Facebook, asking which Rack Extension they are previewing and if there'd be video, and the CEO/founder, Michele Benincaso, liked it... made no comment though :lol:



You might be right with it being the Korg stuff. Although I would imagine there's more they've been testing and it would seem logical that there is Propellerhead REs ready to show as well... I imagine during JUCE Propellerhead just wanted to show a popular name, other than their own, running on ELK.

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EnochLight
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Post 26 Jan 2019

joeyluck wrote:
26 Jan 2019
I replied to their post about NAMM on Facebook, asking which Rack Extension they are previewing and if there'd be video, and the CEO/founder, Michele Benincaso, liked it... made no comment though :lol:
Maaaaaaaaaaan.. that's just cruel trolling on his part. Lol
joeyluck wrote:
26 Jan 2019
You might be right with it being the Korg stuff. Although I would imagine there's more they've been testing and it would seem logical that there is Propellerhead REs ready to show as well... I imagine during JUCE Propellerhead just wanted to show a popular name, other than their own, running on ELK.
There's a small box at the middle part of this Tweet photo - looks like the Korg box Magnus was messing with in the Juice video, but I could be mistaken:



Elk_OS.jpg
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joeyluck
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Post 26 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
26 Jan 2019
joeyluck wrote:
26 Jan 2019
You might be right with it being the Korg stuff. Although I would imagine there's more they've been testing and it would seem logical that there is Propellerhead REs ready to show as well... I imagine during JUCE Propellerhead just wanted to show a popular name, other than their own, running on ELK.
There's a small box at the middle part of this Tweet photo - looks like the Korg box Magnus was messing with in the Juice video, but I could be mistaken:
Was getting ready to post about this as well. Yeah I saw that in the picture, but didn't know what to make of it. I imagine much of their stuff would be running on little units like that.

But was going to point out that someone else commented about there being a video made, and it was liked by another person at MIND Music Labs, so... Maybe we'll see something soon when things become a little less hectic at the booths


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EnochLight
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Post 26 Jan 2019

Looks like a VST dev is the first to make it to actual market for their plugin running on ELK OS. And brilliantly, it uses any iOS device as the actual display, so you can still have access to the plugin's GUI/UX parameters it would seem.

This is something Teenage Engineering did with the OP-Z, and I think this would be the best approach for Rack Extension developers who wish to release hardware as well. Check this out:



dv-smart-multiamp.jpg
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joeyluck
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Post 26 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
26 Jan 2019
Looks like a VST dev is the first to make it to actual market for their plugin running on ELK OS. And brilliantly, it uses any iOS device as the actual display, so you can still have access to the plugin's GUI/UX parameters it would seem.

This is something Teenage Engineering did with the OP-Z, and I think this would be the best approach for Rack Extension developers who wish to release hardware as well. Check this out:




dv-smart-multiamp.jpg
Indeed. But I guess it also depends upon the format. I think where many REs will benefit, in the cases where a hardware unit contains just one plugin (or a series of plugins with the same layout), are ones that won't require a display at all (and controls are one-to-one). But also, I imagine most would have some sort of video out anyways, such as the Raspberry Pi has an HDMI output.

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EnochLight
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Post 26 Jan 2019

joeyluck wrote:
26 Jan 2019
Indeed. But I guess it also depends upon the format. I think where many REs will benefit, in the cases where a hardware unit contains just one plugin (or a series of plugins with the same layout), are ones that won't require a display at all (and controls are one-to-one). But also, I imagine most would have some sort of video out anyways, such as the Raspberry Pi has an HDMI output.
I think they all could benefit, but it would certainly be easier to run - say for instance - Synapse Audio's Ninety when it only needs 4 knobs and 3 switches:


Synapse Ninety.jpg


...compared to running Prop's own Syncronous (or any other Custom Display based RE that requires "fancy" graphics), where the display actually plays a critical part in using it. But that's where using an iOS device as the display would come in handy to address that IMHO:




propeller_synchro.jpg


I'm thinking - a hardware version of Europa or Grain, where the display gets sent to your iPhone or iPad for deep visual feedback, but a customized hardware kit with keys to actually play it. * DROOLS *
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Faastwalker
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Post 27 Jan 2019


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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2019

Faastwalker wrote:
27 Jan 2019
Thanks for sharing this. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't say exactly which Rack Extension they were running. I'm also disappointed that this is essentially in the "hey - look what can be done" -stage with no apparent hardware developers on board to make an actual product.

I'm betting we're at least 18 months out from seeing an actual product, if any at all. What can be done is essentially a Roland plugout platform - they just need a System 8-style controller to be made.

Any takers? ;)
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joeyluck
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Post 27 Jan 2019

EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2019
Faastwalker wrote:
27 Jan 2019
Thanks for sharing this. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't say exactly which Rack Extension they were running.
My first take was going to be that the synth/s they are using aren't necessarily going to be available as products or those developers haven't officially signed on yet to pursue hardware, and they don't want to mislead anyone; since news at NAMM explodes...and then..."When the heck are we getting the Mono/Poly RE in MML hardware?

But then he goes into talking about hardware developers creating something, that could then be updated with different Rack Extensions (or other plugins) by the user... Which then sounds like it's plenty flexible and ok to mention what you're running at NAMM...

It also makes me wonder how RE licensing will be handled going forward. It sounds like MIND Music Labs will have it's own store...will REs be available in that store and have separate licensing from the Prop Shop? Will a user be able to prove an existing license from Propellerhead to load it onto hardware? Lots of questions I guess.

I think what they have going looks pretty cool. Much more refined than what I was expecting to see...which I thought was just going to be some little gadget box with an external display and controller attached separately.

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EnochLight
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Post 27 Jan 2019

joeyluck wrote:
27 Jan 2019
EnochLight wrote:
27 Jan 2019


Thanks for sharing this. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't say exactly which Rack Extension they were running.
My first take was going to be that the synth/s they are using aren't necessarily going to be available as products or those developers haven't officially signed on yet to pursue hardware, and they don't want to mislead anyone; since news at NAMM explodes...and then..."When the heck are we getting the Mono/Poly RE in MML hardware?

But then he goes into talking about hardware developers creating something, that could then be updated with different Rack Extensions (or other plugins) by the user... Which then sounds like it's plenty flexible and ok to mention what you're running at NAMM...

It also makes me wonder how RE licensing will be handled going forward. It sounds like MIND Music Labs will have it's own store...will REs be available in that store and have separate licensing from the Prop Shop? Will a user be able to prove an existing license from Propellerhead to load it onto hardware? Lots of questions I guess.

I think what they have going looks pretty cool. Much more refined than what I was expecting to see...which I thought was just going to be some little gadget box with an external display and controller attached separately.
Right - just a lot of unknowns... :?

About the RE they were demoing.. It's possible that it was Prop's own Complex-1, as there's colored cables on the front that look oddly like the ones in Complex-1's modular environment. But then why not just say that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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