Propellerhead Partners with MIND Music Labs For Rack Extension Hardware Integration

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antic604

Post 07 May 2019

Steinberg's Retrologue2 VST as Elk MusicOS hardware:

Image

https://www.gearnews.com/superbooth-201 ... oaSPG4tTt0

sleep1979

Post 07 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
09 Jan 2019
Koshdukai wrote:
09 Jan 2019
If you're not into (digital instruments/effects) hardware, this doesn't apply to you.
That's the thing. I am, but - at least in a hybrid computer+hardware setup - I don't see a point. Why would I want my hardware synth to sound like Parsec, if I can get that from Reason running on my PC. I'd rather my hardware sound different.

But again, that's my personal preference and I see the business potential of this and how this can be appealing to hardware-only people.
Funny i was thinking about this in bed last night thinking , what if you had a controller that held no sounds but you could import certain synths into it like one day its parsec one day its thor one day its europa if it was low cost too like under £200 because its only a controller that loads sounds ( ie you have to make patches on the computer it has no knobs ) that would be better than any microkorg rubbish wouldn't it or yamaha reface or roland clip on shit , you would be essentially getting amazing synths u could take on stage with you away from the computer how sick would that be ? And you just buy the controller and any rack you own that supports it can be loaded in , this is some of the shit i think about in bed , that and naked women 😂

Sorry ladies x 🙂

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EnochLight
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Post 07 May 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
07 May 2019
Funny i was thinking about this in bed last night thinking , what if you had a controller that held no sounds but you could import certain synths into it like one day its parsec one day its thor one day its europa
You've been able to do that for years... with Roland's System-1 and System-8 (and others) using plugouts. Granted, they also serves as a standalone synths, but being able to load up instances of various VST's (in the form of plugouts) like an SH-101, Jupiter 8, Juno 106, JX-3P, etc - it exactly what Rack Extensions via ELK OS should be able to achieve.

But yeah, we need that specialized hardware controller first... :(
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sleep1979

Post 07 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 May 2019
sleep1979 wrote:
07 May 2019
Funny i was thinking about this in bed last night thinking , what if you had a controller that held no sounds but you could import certain synths into it like one day its parsec one day its thor one day its europa
You've been able to do that for years... with Roland's System-1 and System-8 (and others) using plugouts. Granted, they also serves as a standalone synths, but being able to load up instances of various VST's (in the form of plugouts) like an SH-101, Jupiter 8, Juno 106, JX-3P, etc - it exactly what Rack Extensions via ELK OS should be able to achieve.

But yeah, we need that specialized hardware controller first... :(
but there expensive I don't need knobs they could do a standard one that just loads on the sounds id be happy with that make the sounds on the computer then just take it on the road .

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 07 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
07 May 2019
Steinberg's Retrologue2 VST as Elk MusicOS hardware:

Image

https://www.gearnews.com/superbooth-201 ... oaSPG4tTt0
This is increasingly looking like a solution in search of a problem.

The "this is clever" factor aside, I just don't see too many people needing one of these in practice, and given that in particular instruments, as the article points out, tend to have far more properties than most controllers will ever be able to be built, it leaves you likely needing the app on a laptop or tablet anyway (and indeed we've already seen a guitar effects Elk thing with the same issue), for example, in the Retrologue demo hardware, there's no method to change osc footage, so in many respects they may always be just a little too compromised. So in reality they actually become twice as fiddly to use because you need the software app running somewhere anyway. And to perform live you'd still need to hook it up to a keyboard.

I note Roland are using off-the-shelf parts, so that would limit tooling and printing to just to the shell, but realistically, what's the most people would pay for something like that? The software alone is $85. Are there that many people who'd pay an extra ... say $199 for a dedicated hardware to run software they can run on any (admittedly high end) laptop (regardless of whether it comes with the software or not, and I'd presume it would have to).

But here's the bigger rub I've not yet seen addressed...

For our example, let's price it at $199, the price of a decent MIDI controller, and honestly I think that's optimistic, but that I'd expect is the maximum price could be for some level of mass adoption (0000s rather than 000s).

The interior will be—give or take RAM/storage—pretty much the same hardware for each device you buy. So you spend £199 on a Roland Retrologue for example. Now if you wanted a Korg MonoPoly box, you'd be spending £199 on another box which probably has the exact same hardware.

This is starting to remind me of rechargeable ice cubes*.

I do still think there's probably a way to do some reasonably mass market thing in some of kind of modular fashion using, say, a generic set of controls you can map to the most useful functions, as with the Roland above, along the lines of any existing MIDI controller out there, but then creating swappable covers for individual products, e.g. a company licensed compatible "covers" from developers, for example, or developers themselves could print and sell covers etc. That might be a viable approach even with the inherent limitations. But a dedicated box per synth? Nope. That Roland test is functionally worse than a laptop running just that one synth, connected to a decent controller, and the laptop can probably handle more than one instance. (I'm unclear about whether these Elk things are one instance per device, though, in which case any good desktop is still going to demolish it, so I can't see the benefit in terms of enabling massive amounts of additional DSP performance).

So really, for this to be of any use at some kind of scale, you'd have to be able to load any software product on any ELK device (possibly distinguishing between effects and instruments devices), in which case it has to be easy enough for users to map controls to them (waaaay easier than Remote™) and change panels easily.

_____

* https://www.wired.co.uk/article/no-more ... mart-cubes (The inventor happened to be "friend", cos I'd probably met him once, briefly, at a party half a decade ago, and back in those days everyone just added everyone anyone met, and so this article cropped up in my newsfeed when he gloated to everyone about this advertorial that had been published; so, other than pointing out that no-one is ever going to add these to anything other than spirits, plus the environmental costs of batteries, and the number of units a bar would need to keep charged etc, given the USP was automatic re-ordering of drinks when it detected the drink was nearly empty I asked him "what happens if there's a queue at the bar, do the smart cube users get priority, and if not it defeats the point of having the ability at all, and yet would annoy the people in the queue if they had to wait, and then how do you disable automatic reordering, because obviously that would cost the bar a lot of money if they started a new round only to find people with the 'smart' ice cubes didn't want another round and refused to pay for it..." Rather than answer these obvious questions he deleted my post and unfriended me :D )

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O1B
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Post 07 May 2019

I had/have Roland/"PlugOuts". There is no "One" form factor, that I know of.
There is barely much overlap in JUST the OSC section of Synths - much less Filter, AMP, - and MOD section... forget it!

ex. How are 'waves chosen? ... Switch? Continuously variable on one knob? <ore than one at a time?

Give JP's Post above a Read.

Moog's OSC design is Different than Korg. And, one Korg is Different than another Korg.
A different midi controller for each is prohibitive in so may ways - once we're past the "one controller fits all" idea.

- I like Arturia's take on an OSC Section.
Boombastix wrote:
13 Feb 2019
To imagine one form factor is just to look at Roland and their range of plug out hardware. I also think simple REs with few knobs on Eurorack it's likely, but hey a small display that lets you set what parameter to control makes sense. Just be prepared that they may also lock one HW to a specific RE or some REs.

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EnochLight
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Post 07 May 2019

JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 May 2019
This is increasingly looking like a solution in search of a problem.

The "this is clever" factor aside, I just don't see too many people needing one of these in practice
So, serious question: if you had the ability to make real-life hardware boxes for many of your products that you sell in your Rack Extension catalog, and allow people to use said boxes on stage without lugging around a computer.... you mean to tell me that you couldn't see a use for it??!! :( :o :shock: :?
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JiggeryPokery
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Post 07 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 May 2019
JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 May 2019
This is increasingly looking like a solution in search of a problem.

The "this is clever" factor aside, I just don't see too many people needing one of these in practice
So, serious question: if you had the ability to make real-life hardware boxes for many of your products that you sell in your Rack Extension catalog, and allow people to use said boxes on stage without lugging around a computer.... you mean to tell me that you couldn't see a use for it??!! :( :o :shock: :?
But that's not what I said, though, E, please try and apply some level of critical thinking to their marketing spiel: I was raising a number of potential issues, based on information currently available, while appreciating I don't know all the facts and may be misunderstanding certain aspects, of why the system might be limited, and why the market potential for lots of dedicated devices probably doesn't exist. As I've noted before, smarter people than I may see something I'm missing, and I look forward to hearing those debates. In the meantime, however, the desire to do such a thing is irrelevant when the tooling to do it might cost £100k for a product that will mostly do less than the software version, as clearly demostrated in the Roland article. Yeah, everyone would like to do it, but these things are not going to be cheap. Would you spend $500 on a hardware product that is just a $50 Rack Extension that ultimately probably runs better on a laptop, no matter how nice it looks taking up space on your desk or having to buy an actual rack. (If you say "yes", dammit man, gimme your downpayment right now... :D )

That Roland above has a fraction of the functionality of the VST - so you will still need an app, hence you'll likely not be dumping that laptop on stage, unless you're sure you're only going to need to be doing filter drops and everything else is preset beforehand! :D

Pulling figures out of my arse a bit (an educated arse, one might say), for me to do, for example, an Elk based Harmonic Synth device, and of course I want one!, I'd be shocked if I could do it for less than $50k, and I'd guess it'd likely be double that to do a run of even say, 300. As I've said in a previous post, I wonder if it would be doable if it was pre-paid via Kickstarter, so you know how many you need built, so you budget and set a price and know in advance you can make a profit to make the effort worthwhile, and that seems to me the only likely way it could be done for a small company, otherwise it's just too big a risk for the small market size for one-man bands like myself. And yes, Props will steam in and say to us "hey! this means Cubase users can use REs via hardware thus opening up new markets for RE devs! $$$!". But that would be complete bollocks, because again, you're rarely going to have access to all the controls on the hardware, so they'd still need the RE, which they can't use because REs are only available in Reason! So they would have to do VST/AU/AAX et al hosts for REs for that possibility to be enabled. That's literally a dealbreaker.

And frankly, even with a Kickstarter it still requires development of prototypes and testing, so it's a fair expense even before that, especially if one needs help implementing the electronics, for example. Remember, Props tried going solid with Balance and they couldn't pull hardware off with their relatively substantial resources.

A large company like Arturia, and NI and the Korgs and Rolands of the world could probably pull it off, and I expect they will to varying degrees, especially if they make use of a lot of off-the-shelf parts as Roland are doing in their example, like I said, that seriously cuts down tooling costs where one can get away with it. My guess is still the widest audience will be generic controllers that can host multiple products at once, loaded with a ton of cheap if slow microSD storage and RAM, and the ability to switch between stored products. A top tier product might use a cheap but fast SSD.

A realistic question: how many software instruments like that Roland would you buy for even $199, given you know the software is worth... $40 on a Black Friday? Now would you pay $500 for half an RE controller? And remember, it's really only available to Reason users unless every control can be hardware-mapped and not just half of them, because they'd still need the RE app for deep control. And that's assuming Reason 11+ is compatible with Elk, and an RE in the Rack can talk to a specifically-selected Elk hardware counterpart (though I'm gonna go on a limb and suggest that will be the case sometime in the R11 cycle otherwise PH's partnership doesn't really count for anything).

Finally, but most crucially, and people overlook this, PH won't ever allow us to sell REs outside the shop! So for us to sell RE hardware (with or without crowdfunding), the hardware would have to be "empty", and the user would still have to purchase the device from the shop, thus requiring there to be a method to transfer it via, eg, Authorizer on a PC to an Elk box, and frankly, PH have shown very little enthusiasm for developing even fairly basic shop mechanisms devs really do need. If PH sold the hardware pre-loaded, they'd want 50% of the entire cost, so then that really pushes the price up to the end user even more, and we'd all have to ship every unit to them first, so they'd need physical storage and the ability to handle physical exports. (Some method from PH to pre-license remotely? ... maybe.) Would you pay $700 or $1000 for a software synth on Raspberry Pi, even if the side panels were real fake wood and not fake fake wood? ;) There's always someone willing to buy, I suppose, but my guess at the moment is the typical DAW user is unlikely to. Once you're in for $500+, you might as well go for an actual hardware synth with all the controls on it, whether it's a poly VA or real analog mono. The prevalence of software has made it easy to pack instruments and effects with lots of controls and features but conversely that makes it a shit-ton harder to port it back to actual hardware control, as anyone who's ever used a softsynth via a generic MIDI controller knows all too well.

So (if they haven't already) until Props figure out RE license handling and Cubase/Logic/Ableton support for REs, I'd suggest the chance of getting third-party REs as dedicated Elk hardware, is between nowt and bugger all, so I doubt anyone would even bother attempting a pre-fund campaign unless they were trying to scam you. :D

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EnochLight
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Post 07 May 2019

JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 May 2019
EnochLight wrote:
07 May 2019


So, serious question: if you had the ability to make real-life hardware boxes for many of your products that you sell in your Rack Extension catalog, and allow people to use said boxes on stage without lugging around a computer.... you mean to tell me that you couldn't see a use for it??!! :( :o :shock: :?
But that's not what I said, though, E, please try and apply some level of critical thinking to their marketing spiel:
Now now Matt.. critical thinking? What you said was exactly what I quoted:
I just don't see too many people needing one of these in practice
I assumed you were talking about the hardware version of Steinberg's Retrologue2. I was merely asking if you felt no one would need any of your wares - in hardware form - on stage - without a computer. I mean, as a dev - that would excite me anyway. I don't doubt there's a shit ton of issues that need to be overcome in order for it to happen.

But that being said, you don't think people wouldn't want hardware versions of your RE's?

A simple yes or no is OK.
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Post 07 May 2019

For me personally, I would be most drawn to battery-operated gadgets; things I can play with on the go and really get my hands on and get a different experience away from a studio setting. I already use a laptop, so I have all my favorite software with me on the go as it is, but I do like my gadgets! :)

I can certainly understand how it can be a tough sell to have hardware that needs to be plugged in, audio routed, all around your computer setup which has the software on it. And even on stage, computers are plenty reliable. I could maybe see having a 1U unit that simply offloads some computing needs of some DSP heavy devices.

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Post 07 May 2019

I can think of a couple of uses. Anyone remember rack units from the -90's. U220, M1R, T81Z, and so on. Did anyone ever program them? Not really very, much used as a preset player. Imaging live artists having a HW unit that can browse presets and play back a Europa, or Parsec, Expanse, or whatever, just based on the preset you pick.

Then Eurorack, simpler units that do not need special interfaces. I mean, Eurorack is probably the least effective way to create a sound there is (no rationale to it if a VST is an option, but people still buy them), so I do not think "normal" logic works in that space, it is all about connections, knobs, led's, and building up something. So, instead of buing 14 different filters, you buy one ELK Eurorack with all the DSP variants.

But someone may come up with a perfect combo of knobs and and a touch display, where the touch display can do all the fancy "desktop" things and the knobs for the hands on. Roland, Moog, Clavia et al, still produce hardware keyboards, so it is still a thing.
Also, some special units, that might be a large knob based unit like a, Diva, The Legend...
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JiggeryPokery
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Post 08 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 May 2019
JiggeryPokery wrote:
07 May 2019


But that's not what I said, though, E, please try and apply some level of critical thinking to their marketing spiel:
Now now Matt.. critical thinking? What you said was exactly what I quoted:
I just don't see too many people needing one of these in practice
I assumed you were talking about the hardware version of Steinberg's Retrologue2. I was merely asking if you felt no one would need any of your wares - in hardware form - on stage - without a computer. I mean, as a dev - that would excite me anyway. I don't doubt there's a shit ton of issues that need to be overcome in order for it to happen.

But that being said, you don't think people wouldn't want hardware versions of your RE's?

A simple yes or no is OK.
Yes, plenty would want a hardware version of one my REs. I want hardware versions of all of my REs ;)

But you're wilfully mistaking desire for something with the practicality of it and misreading what I wrote: I don't see too many people needing these in practice. That assessment is entirely correct based on what I know so far. People wanting something and actually buying are two entirely different concepts. People are now used to buying synths for $9 in the Propshop. Those people are not suddently going to find hundreds of bucks for a controller, Enoch. Some will, of course they will, but would it ever be enough for a small dev to be able to do it? So you're still limited to people who would buy fairly pricey hardware anyway. None of them will come with keyboards, so you still need a controller, you still probably need a laptop/desktop at some point in many cases so you're adding gear, not reducing it.

Look at that prototype. The Retrologue hardware box as shown in that prototype—which, yes, might change—currently isn't much use standalone without the ability to change the footage of the oscillators, so there are points you'd always need access to the app version, meaning you're potentially still tied to a computer, if not on stage, then at least before it. Changing the pitch range of an oscillator is a pretty fundamental control for a synthesizer, so it's a curious omission even at prototype stage! Now assuming an ELK version can talk to the software version and vice versa, as suggested by that guitar amp, then a Reason user can use the VST version to do so, but in the reverse scenario, a Cubase user couldn't use an RE to access knobs they might have not have, so let's be clear, no Cubase user is going to buy a hardware RE no matter how cool, unless it has every important control and they never need to touch the software. Otherwise you'd be buying half a product. You wouldn't buy a miniMoog if you couldn't change the footage.

Like I said, I don't known the specs and I could be wrong about a shitload of stuff; misunderstanding certain aspects that may be clarified down the line, so some of the challenges can be met, but you're mistaking desire to do something with the practicality of it.

As it stands right now I still see dedicated controllers as that Retrologue as being limited to large to moderately large brands. You want me to guess? Then re-reading PH's earlier press release perhaps they are looking at some kind of generic RE host/controller, that's the only way they'd get a load of REs into the format quickly. The potential downside is the needs of one synth can be very different to another. But then you've got the problem of controllers that don't have control names attached to them, so they'd still be as difficult to use across multiple products as any common-or-garden MIDI controller (hence why I'd have loved Nektar to do a keyboard with per-knob OLED for name mapping).

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EnochLight
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Post 08 May 2019

JiggeryPokery wrote:
08 May 2019
Yes, plenty would want a hardware version of one my REs. I want hardware versions of all of my REs ;)

But you're wilfully mistaking desire for something with the practicality of it and misreading what I wrote: I don't see too many people needing these in practice.
I’ll say this much: if I could buy an affordable hardware I/o box (with knobs and VU) version of (say for instance) Softube’s FET Rack Extension, instead of dropping +$1000 USD on a single 1176, then I would most definitely say that people could/would use these in practice. And on stage. :) And I’d say there’s plenty of more extremely useful examples - your catalog of RE’s in particular.

But yeah, there’s so many things that need to happen, it’s likely a pipe dream.
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Post 08 May 2019

We're at the beginning of this process - judging from the 'prototype' in the NAMM video.

Image

Plenty of room to grow, though.
I think the best approach is 'off eurorack' a la Boutiques/Volca - or better yet, Korg Gadgets in Real Life.
Oled. Touch. etc. The utilities are there. iPad/OS to bring up the rear for 'visuals' a la OP-Z.
Then, Step Seq, Faders, Knobs, Lights, Ports...

The design also has to grab a ton load of 'early adopters' ! - then, it's off to the races.
I'd give it another 5 years.

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dioxide
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Post 08 May 2019

I think this is better suited to simple effects and stomp box type devices. I think there's not much chance of many instruments being ported to hardware, as many modern software instruments are far more complex than hardware instruments used to be.

Steinberg can afford to do this kind of thing as proof of concept. I just don't think many other developers will follow suit, especially as many developers are now small companies. For Eurorack or guitar setups I could see it working though. Or maybe for rack mount compressors and effects?

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Post 08 May 2019

Here's my take on this:

At home I have my desktop computer, and so no need for this. Unless the hardware RE is the only system I'm taking on the road with me, then I'll have a laptop with me too. If I have a laptop to service other plugins etc. then I'll have all my REs with me and no need for this.

Overall this looks to be an academic project to me.

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Post 08 May 2019

Regarding the licencing, wouldn't all PH have to do is introduce a 'device' licence, where the software is licences to the device itself or the company manufacturing the device? Lots of hardware devices contain software and I assume it is never owned by the user. I don't see this as a problem really. The manufacturer would just need to be aware that the devices that they sell could be resold between users, unlike the software where they might instead sell two copies, and price it with this in mind.

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Post 08 May 2019

Roland are kind of already doing this. If you want the software version to use standalone you need to pay for it, but it is perfectly possible for someone to sell an Aira synth to someone else with the plug-out installed on the hardware. The buyer doesn't need to own the software to use it when it is loaded into a hardware synth.

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dioxide
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Post 08 May 2019

Tweak wrote:
08 May 2019
Here's my take on this:

At home I have my desktop computer, and so no need for this. Unless the hardware RE is the only system I'm taking on the road with me, then I'll have a laptop with me too. If I have a laptop to service other plugins etc. then I'll have all my REs with me and no need for this.

Overall this looks to be an academic project to me.
For me it is the opposite. I'd have the hardware plugged in at home for fine tunings sounds etc. Then being able to unplug my laptop and take it to a café or do a live set without the hardware would be ideal. For instruments I find I need to ability to fine tune sounds in the studio, but live the monitoring often allows you to make very few changes to the sound, so I keep it simple.

The Roland Plug-out concept appeals to me a lot for this reason. There are other reasons I don't use it despite owning a System-1 but if there were a RE equivalent I'd be all over it.

Realistically I am looking for a well built, 1to1 mapped MIDI controller though. I don't need audio ins and outs.

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Post 08 May 2019

I've got an MPC Live, and it can run a bevy of Air plugins in standalone mode. They're mostly effects, but using the MPC Live's i/o, 7" touch display, and Q-Link knobs, I essentially have a huge catalog of plugins that I can take on stage and run instruments, mics, etc though inside a very competent hardware box. If Akai would incorporate ELK OS as an option to boot (or run alongside the MPC Software), devices like the MPC Live and X are already setup for this sort of thing.

I'm drooling at a partnership with Propellerhead to get their RE's on it... ;) :D
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Post 08 May 2019

dioxide wrote:
08 May 2019
Regarding the licencing, wouldn't all PH have to do is introduce a 'device' licence, where the software is licences to the device itself or the company manufacturing the device? Lots of hardware devices contain software and I assume it is never owned by the user. I don't see this as a problem really. The manufacturer would just need to be aware that the devices that they sell could be resold between users, unlike the software where they might instead sell two copies, and price it with this in mind.
I agree, there are pitfalls but there will be solutions as you suggest that could be implemented if the will is actually there to do so, for example, if an ELK RE wasn't tied to a user account, so the device can be resold (the pitfall potentially being PH can't then be saying RE software users can't be allowed to resell licenses with a straight face as it's now materially unfair on RE owners that some other RE owners can resell, and again it reinforces the competitive advantage for VSTs). It's not a stretch to conclude few non-Reason users would by an ELK standalone RE box if that was tied exclusively to a Reason account, so I feel you're right, the license would have to be strictly tied to the hardware or else it's not truly standalone. Uploading an RE from the shop to an ELK device feels like a bit of a non-starter, unless MOS had a timestamp mechanism that worked regardless of resync or else it could be downloaded once for free and used indefinitely simply by never connecting it to the web again (including the possibility of ELK MOS being rooted to change or bypass security functions).

Not pointing this at you, dioxide, but a general observation that these devices are NOT dumb controllers, and I think some people are looking at them as cute little MIDI controllers for softsynths, like the old Korg mini-MS-20 controller they made a few years back. They may be able to do that too, but fundamentally the idea is they can operate standalone because they host the entire plugin. It is clever, but is it practical, and how many people would realistically buy more than one or two?

Because they won't work if they are unable to do the basic functions: ask.audio say "Steinberg's Retrologue 2 is an excellent VST synth plugin that, thanks to Mind Music Labs, becomes better and more usable when it becomes a desktop, hardware synthesizer. " It's bonkers. How is it more usable if it has less control over osc pitch than a cheap controller pointed at the VST?! I wonder if some of these writers even understand what they type; they just read the press releases, restate it and call it journalism. :roll:

I remain open to being convinced, but so far, its looks like the softsynth equivalent of AirBnB. Disruptive tech for the benefit of getting investment, I can guarantee the ELK CEO will do well out of it, because there's not much likelihood more than 3 in 100 Reason users would ever buy an RE hardware device at any price.

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dioxide
Posts: 1109
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Post 08 May 2019

Yeah I'm primarily after well matched MIDI controllers. Do I need the hardware to be truly standalone? Not really. Routing physical audio cables in 2019 is not something I am interested in. For me this is one of the only ways I might see some better MIDI controllers than the standard generic banks-of-8 style controllers that dominate the market. I can see how it might appeal to others though. For instance ABL3 as a standalone ELK device could have a market. There are plenty of options out there for 303s, but Roland's emulations have sold reasonably well despite not being good emulations. However for a small developer to start going hardware would be a big financial risk.

@JP How would you feel if a third party approached you to do an ELK version of one of your effects units? Or perhaps a Eurorack version of Ammo 100LA?

https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... elay-line/
https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... iller-wah/
https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... y-speaker/
https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... scillator/

I always imagined that the hardware developer would be a third party, paying a licence to the developer for every hardware unit sold. This would be a good deal for the dev I would imagine? Surely it's no different to selling a licence to an individual to install on their Mac/PC. The nature of computers means that their lifespan is usually limited, hence the need for the software to be independent from it. But an Ammo Eurorack module stays usable for as long as the hardware survives, so there's no need for licence transfers as the licence is embedded in the device and can't be moved to a Mac/PC.

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EnochLight
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Post 08 May 2019

JiggeryPokery wrote:
08 May 2019
Not pointing this at you, dioxide, but a general observation that these devices are NOT dumb controllers, and I think some people are looking at them as cute little MIDI controllers for softsynths, like the old Korg mini-MS-20 controller they made a few years back. They may be able to do that too, but fundamentally the idea is they can operate standalone because they host the entire plugin. It is clever, but is it practical, and how many people would realistically buy more than one or two?
Exactly, which is why the MPC Live/X approach is a great idea, IMHO. It's a fully standalone piece of hardware that can host (some) plugins. Propellerhead would do well to partner with companies with such products to get RE's onto them, IMHO.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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friday
Posts: 221
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019


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Jackjackdaw
Posts: 199
Joined: 12 Jan 2019

Post 14 May 2019

I dont really get it. Hardware synths and fx already exist. Big, small, expensive and cheap, take your pick. Would a raspberry pi Europa really be more appealing than a minilogue xd?

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