Complex from Propellerhead

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BRIGGS
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Post 26 Dec 2018

normen wrote:
24 Dec 2018
Image
Image

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MrBlue
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Post 27 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
26 Dec 2018
:thumbs_up:
Thank's

m.arthur
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Post 27 Dec 2018

avasopht wrote:
24 Dec 2018
Was feeling really proud of my little Complex patches, ...

... and then I went and loaded up the patches that came with it, ... :cry:

Was lots of fun anyway. My FM cymbals need a lot of work, though I do like the sound I've got with them.

Best Christmas, .... ever !!! :puf_bigsmile:
Yeah, I had a similar experience. But it's good news, because there is a ton to be learned by reverse-engineering the Factory patches. There is some really magical stuff in there!

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svenh
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Post 27 Dec 2018

theshoemaker wrote:
23 Dec 2018
svenh wrote:
23 Dec 2018


Wow, what is this python framework you use that allows to access and randomize the RE parameters in real time?
This is something I'm working on for some time now. It's almost finished. It is a remote coded based framework with some code generation inside, ultimately sending and receiving midi messages. It's generating the map files for my generic codec based on the Remote Info Files you can export from reason since Version 9.2. So only Remotables are supported. Luckily there are lot of good devices for randomizing. So far I have been working on user interface prototype, but this still takes some time. I had patch morphing in a early stage, which got broken in between because of how I implemented the codec and the framework. Then I switch over to a SysEx based codec, which worked good so far. And I just recently switch back to a Normal Midi Codec where I use one Codec per Device. The codec is generic, so in theory, you can rermote control as many devices as you like to. You just have to modify the codec a bit (but I will also automate this, so that everything gets generated and installed into the right place by the script). My ultimate plan is to have a python host (small script) and an RE with a serialization protocol over sysex, that can store all the scripting in a device patch for a custom RE ... but this is way beyond my knowledge right now. Have to figure out how to write this serialization protocol.

I already wanted to launch BETA 3 Month ago, but I got sidetracked (as I just do this in my sparetime, besides full day job and family). I have to cleanup some stuff, but I used it quite extensively over the last 6-12 month. Every device is supported out of the box, and to have more specific rules that make more sense on more envolved devices It's quite forward writing a specific and meaningful randomization algorithm for a new device ...

So far I really love working with eXpanse, because of what you can control. Subtractor is also enjoyable. Simple devices in general, the ones from Skrock are very good for this stuff. I guess some more, but I didn't try so many. The props ones are almost all limited. I would have love to throw ReCode:RePlay on PX7, but it lacks a lot of remotables. And Malström would also have been superior if it weren't for the lack of the wave remotable.


Anywhay. Back to topic: Complex-1 needs more work in this division. Because of it's more open/modular architecture. It just love the workflow with complex. Happy patching! I've just been playing for 1-2 hours today on a percussive patch. Very enjoyable
Sounds very interesting with a tool to generate random patches! It does not have to generate perfect (or maybe not even good) patches - just something that kicks me in a direction I would not think of myself. I can always perfect the patch later. :thumbs_up:

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MrBlue
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Another one !

jctarvin
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Not an experienced modular synth guy. Downloaded the trial. Want to like it, but I would need some in-depth tutorials on module function and connectivity. The manual isn't sufficient for my pea brain. Not into grunge sounds. I might buy if there were more melodic patches. Still playing and have at meat 20 days left on my trial. Here's hoping!

future-bit
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Post 28 Dec 2018

jctarvin wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Want to like it, but I would need some in-depth tutorials on module function and connectivity.
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/inde ... pic=4014.0
Last edited by future-bit on 29 Dec 2018, edited 4 times in total.

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Loque
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Post 29 Dec 2018

jctarvin wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Not an experienced modular synth guy. Downloaded the trial. Want to like it, but I would need some in-depth tutorials on module function and connectivity. The manual isn't sufficient for my pea brain. Not into grunge sounds. I might buy if there were more melodic patches. Still playing and have at meat 20 days left on my trial. Here's hoping!
I think it was a good decision from PH that the patches do not sound as the typical synth stuff. I was really impressed of the flute patch created of nose and the comb filter.

If you provide some examples, what you understand under "musical patches" i will have a look, cause it can produce everything from any bass sound, over lush pads, guitars and pianos.

Maybe this is more your thing, where i played around with the modulation possibilities:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7510328
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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avasopht
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Post 29 Dec 2018

jctarvin wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Not an experienced modular synth guy. Downloaded the trial. Want to like it, but I would need some in-depth tutorials on module function and connectivity. The manual isn't sufficient for my pea brain. Not into grunge sounds. I might buy if there were more melodic patches. Still playing and have at meat 20 days left on my trial. Here's hoping!
It might help to know the basics of synthesis first.

Try anything from Sound on Sound's Synth Secrets, to propellerhead's synth tutorials. There are lots of others out there too.

Alternatively you can learn through trial and error.

The easiest thing you can do is simply plugging the tone generator straight into the output.

Then add an envelope from the gate, and pitch from the keys.

Now you have a dull patch, but it's something.

Now try breathing some life into it through modulation. You can use the LPG to create an envelope to control FM, AM, pitch or volume (volume would never you to sum with envelope output first I think).

There's a tiny amount of theory involved in getting FM right. The function module has a mode for creating perfect pitches for tuned FM.

Keep playing with this and you'll soon have some interesting sounds.

Use the provided patches for inspiration. Even try to replicate them.
---

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fotizimo
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Instruments like Complex-1 always make me wonder why this web site hasn't evolved to a point where we have an instrument technique + tips specific section, where each thread is devoted solely to users exploring and sharing tips and patches for individual instruments. Often, threads about instruments get bogged down in politics, opinions, sales prices/events, and such, then the lessons and tips get "thinned out" in the noise surrounding the instrument. There is a PSQ appreciation thread which has some great stuff and has stayed very tip focused, and I could only imagine how useful it would be if all tips about all instruments were consolidated into that single thread instead of each tip or trick being relegated to their own threads.

I mean, why not have a single thread for each Rack instrument where the topic needs to stay technical and regarding techniques? How many threads do we have for each instrument with knowledge being separated into each of those threads instead of being contained within a single instrument-specific topic?

Hell, could you imagine if all of the ReasonTalk users who really love a single instrument, could come up with their own device-specific community refill as a sticky at the beginning of each thread, where all of the tricks and tips are consolidated into a single place?

I guess the downside to the idea is the amount of potential moderation that could be needed to keep topics on-point.

Anyway, my $0.02.
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AttenuationHz
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Post 29 Dec 2018

fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Instruments like Complex-1 always make me wonder why this web site hasn't evolved to a point where we have an instrument technique + tips specific section, where each thread is devoted solely to users exploring and sharing tips and patches for individual instruments. Often, threads about instruments get bogged down in politics, opinions, sales prices/events, and such, then the lessons and tips get "thinned out" in the noise surrounding the instrument. There is a PSQ appreciation thread which has some great stuff and has stayed very tip focused, and I could only imagine how useful it would be if all tips about all instruments were consolidated into that single thread instead of each tip or trick being relegated to their own threads.

I mean, why not have a single thread for each Rack instrument where the topic needs to stay technical and regarding techniques? How many threads do we have for each instrument with knowledge being separated into each of those threads instead of being contained within a single instrument-specific topic?

Hell, could you imagine if all of the ReasonTalk users who really love a single instrument, could come up with their own device-specific community refill as a sticky at the beginning of each thread, where all of the tricks and tips are consolidated into a single place?

I guess the downside to the idea is the amount of potential moderation that could be needed to keep topics on-point.

Anyway, my $0.02.
Do you mean something like this?
Waiting for Navigation by Routing to be added! viewtopic.php?p=275484#p275484f=6&t=749 ... 97#p275497
:refill: http://rwrd.io/qx9m5wx Referral!

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avasopht
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Post 29 Dec 2018

fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Instruments like Complex-1 always make me wonder why this web site hasn't evolved to a point where we have an instrument technique + tips specific section, where each thread is devoted solely to users exploring and sharing tips and patches for individual instruments. Often, threads about instruments get bogged down in politics, opinions, sales prices/events, and such, then the lessons and tips get "thinned out" in the noise surrounding the instrument. There is a PSQ appreciation thread which has some great stuff and has stayed very tip focused, and I could only imagine how useful it would be if all tips about all instruments were consolidated into that single thread instead of each tip or trick being relegated to their own threads.

I mean, why not have a single thread for each Rack instrument where the topic needs to stay technical and regarding techniques? How many threads do we have for each instrument with knowledge being separated into each of those threads instead of being contained within a single instrument-specific topic?

Hell, could you imagine if all of the ReasonTalk users who really love a single instrument, could come up with their own device-specific community refill as a sticky at the beginning of each thread, where all of the tricks and tips are consolidated into a single place?

I guess the downside to the idea is the amount of potential moderation that could be needed to keep topics on-point.

Anyway, my $0.02.
It's a tricky balancing act.

You could have a topic per instrument, but quickly becomes a mess with different conversations about using the synth and solving problems.

You could have a subforum per instrument and get nothing but crickets.

You could have a subforum per instrument type and again, get crickets.

What we have instead is just a forum for Tutorials & Techniques where you can start a thread about an instrument, technique or query.

What might be more useful is a directory of articles (as well as articles) of people sharing their techniques. No idea how the ball would best get rolling. Maybe if expert users felt there was an audience they might more consistently produce content, and with there being content a directory listing is legitimised.

Bit of a chicken and egg situation, but a solid direction might bring it a long way.

Maybe there might be something we could learn from the Reaktor community.
---

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fotizimo
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Post 29 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Do you mean something like this?
Actually, I mean the exact opposite of this. This is a great example, of individual threads on individual subjects. I you want to learn everything about a specific instrument, you have to look at a large number of threads and do a large number of searches to see if you have learned everything for that instrument. Plus, people also use the Rack Extension and VST sections to offer up tips and techniques as well. Again, this place is very hard to learn on any given instrument and delve deeply into it.

I have given up using our Tips and Tricks section for anything meaningful because everything is spread out among however many threads there are are about an instrument.

So go into Tutorials and Techniques and try and learn 10 new tricks about Nostromo, and report back how many threads you needed to look at to learn 10 new things.
Last edited by fotizimo on 29 Dec 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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fotizimo
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Post 29 Dec 2018

avasopht wrote:
29 Dec 2018

It's a tricky balancing act.

You could have a topic per instrument, but quickly becomes a mess with different conversations about using the synth and solving problems.

You could have a subforum per instrument and get nothing but crickets.

You could have a subforum per instrument type and again, get crickets.

What we have instead is just a forum for Tutorials & Techniques where you can start a thread about an instrument, technique or query.

What might be more useful is a directory of articles (as well as articles) of people sharing their techniques. No idea how the ball would best get rolling. Maybe if expert users felt there was an audience they might more consistently produce content, and with there being content a directory listing is legitimised.

Bit of a chicken and egg situation, but a solid direction might bring it a long way.

Maybe there might be something we could learn from the Reaktor community.
Admittedly, I think what we have is easier on the moderation side, but harder on the participation side, and that what you note above is clearly the reason why things are the way they are.

We would most likely need mods who were dedicated to the section and would keep things on track and clear of topic "noise". I would offer that service, but am not sure what a ReasonTalk mod's activities would include.
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selig
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Post 29 Dec 2018

fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
I you want to learn everything about a specific instrument, you have to look at a large number of threads and do a large number of searches to see if you have learned everything for that instrument.
One search, with "Complex-1" would find everything IF folks are naming their threads correctly. As moderators it's easier to try to keep threads named correctly (for future searches) than it would be to create and moderate literally HUNDREDS of sub-forums. That's the thinking, anyway, we're always open to new suggestions - and hopefully I understood your suggestion correctly.

Either way, there's going to be LOTS of data to dig through to find the EXACT answer you're looking for, which is why with any structure the thread creators must name their threads with future searches in mind.
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fotizimo
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Post 29 Dec 2018

selig wrote:
29 Dec 2018
fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
I you want to learn everything about a specific instrument, you have to look at a large number of threads and do a large number of searches to see if you have learned everything for that instrument.
One search, with "Complex-1" would find everything IF folks are naming their threads correctly. As moderators it's easier to try to keep threads named correctly (for future searches) than it would be to create and moderate literally HUNDREDS of sub-forums. That's the thinking, anyway, we're always open to new suggestions - and hopefully I understood your suggestion correctly.

Either way, there's going to be LOTS of data to dig through to find the EXACT answer you're looking for, which is why with any structure the thread creators must name their threads with future searches in mind.
Well, see that is the problem. In my experience as a user around here, helpful tips and topics get mixed into the Tutorials section, the Rack Extension section, and often mixed into the General section. So to learn about Complex-1, users are expected to search for that term at the top level, and we haven't effectively taught users to post in the Tutorials sections.

What I suggesting, is that under the Tutorials section (I guess it is most relevant there or perhaps the RE section), a mod would create a thread for Complex-1 when it is first announced. I recognize that keeping tips in that section and out of the RE and General thread would be difficult, but maybe if this is a standard we can push and try to enforce, people will get used to navigating to the relevant thread as a place to post tips and ask questions. Then we can keep the RE and General sections for the other topics such as opinions and whatever.

Again, I recognize what I am discussing is more mod-heavy, but I think would be far more useful in terms of learning and sharing info amongst those people interested in certain instruments.
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Loque
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Post 29 Dec 2018

fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Instruments like Complex-1 always make me wonder why this web site hasn't evolved to a point where we have an instrument technique + tips specific section, where each thread is devoted solely to users exploring and sharing tips and patches for individual instruments. Often, threads about instruments get bogged down in politics, opinions, sales prices/events, and such, then the lessons and tips get "thinned out" in the noise surrounding the instrument. There is a PSQ appreciation thread which has some great stuff and has stayed very tip focused, and I could only imagine how useful it would be if all tips about all instruments were consolidated into that single thread instead of each tip or trick being relegated to their own threads.

I mean, why not have a single thread for each Rack instrument where the topic needs to stay technical and regarding techniques? How many threads do we have for each instrument with knowledge being separated into each of those threads instead of being contained within a single instrument-specific topic?

Hell, could you imagine if all of the ReasonTalk users who really love a single instrument, could come up with their own device-specific community refill as a sticky at the beginning of each thread, where all of the tricks and tips are consolidated into a single place?

I guess the downside to the idea is the amount of potential moderation that could be needed to keep topics on-point.

Anyway, my $0.02.
I like the idea of dedicated threads for specific instruments. But on the other hand, some techniques apply to most of the synths. Complex-1 is a standard synth with basic waveforms. It "just" has very good modulation possibilities and lot of routings could be done at the same time. Its internal oversampling guarantees good sound quality too. It is like a big Thor with "only" the analog wave oscilators and a very big mod matrix with internal 4x oversampling, which will result in much better sounding modulation results.

Again, you just need to ask for a patch type and the ppl here gonna make it - they ppl here are awsome!
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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MrBlue
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Post 29 Dec 2018

More... 1 Complex-1 inside

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selig
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Post 29 Dec 2018

fotizimo wrote:
29 Dec 2018
selig wrote:
29 Dec 2018


One search, with "Complex-1" would find everything IF folks are naming their threads correctly. As moderators it's easier to try to keep threads named correctly (for future searches) than it would be to create and moderate literally HUNDREDS of sub-forums. That's the thinking, anyway, we're always open to new suggestions - and hopefully I understood your suggestion correctly.

Either way, there's going to be LOTS of data to dig through to find the EXACT answer you're looking for, which is why with any structure the thread creators must name their threads with future searches in mind.
Well, see that is the problem. In my experience as a user around here, helpful tips and topics get mixed into the Tutorials section, the Rack Extension section, and often mixed into the General section. So to learn about Complex-1, users are expected to search for that term at the top level, and we haven't effectively taught users to post in the Tutorials sections.

What I suggesting, is that under the Tutorials section (I guess it is most relevant there or perhaps the RE section), a mod would create a thread for Complex-1 when it is first announced. I recognize that keeping tips in that section and out of the RE and General thread would be difficult, but maybe if this is a standard we can push and try to enforce, people will get used to navigating to the relevant thread as a place to post tips and ask questions. Then we can keep the RE and General sections for the other topics such as opinions and whatever.

Again, I recognize what I am discussing is more mod-heavy, but I think would be far more useful in terms of learning and sharing info amongst those people interested in certain instruments.
Totally agreed - and before we allow THIS thread to go off topic would you mind contacting Kenni (Forum Admin) directly with these suggestions and offers of moderation help? As always, thanks for the feedback and kind offer to help!
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m.arthur
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Complex-1 is a standard synth with basic waveforms. It "just" has very good modulation possibilities and lot of routings could be done at the same time. Its internal oversampling guarantees good sound quality too. It is like a big Thor with "only" the analog wave oscilators and a very big mod matrix with internal 4x oversampling, which will result in much better sounding modulation results.

Again, you just need to ask for a patch type and the ppl here gonna make it - they ppl here are awsome!

Given the number of forums out there dedicated solely to the topic of modular synthesis (Muffwiggler, for example), those "very good modulation possibilities and a lot of routings" could be discussed in endless detail in a dedicated Complex-1 forum (which, yes, I'd love to see!). Dismissing the idea just because Complex-1 has standard waveforms for its Oscs is completely missing the point. Is it standard that it has two Clock generator outputs? Is it standard that it has a note-lockable internal sequencer with two separate outputs that can be modulated? All this opens doors for generative patches (just look at the factory generative folder for it, holy crap that's some intense stuff!) that invite all kinds of complex (no pun intended) questions, ideas, techniques -- well worth, imo, of discussion in its own sub-form. And yeah, a Thor-specific sub-forum would be great, too.

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FGL
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Bought this for some special sounds. Thought it is more for click and cuts and some raw synth sounds. But it really shines with his changing arpeggiator. But I have never expected sounds like this. In the example plays only one instance of Complex-1, one patch, auto and no keyplay.


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FGL
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Post 30 Dec 2018

Another "look Mom no hands". Complex plays only the Bassline on this.

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ast3rix
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Joined: 05 Aug 2018

Post 30 Dec 2018

Geez something new to spend hours tweaking. LOL! I think I'm going to wait awhile and watch you guys play with this one. It does look cool... I can't wait to hear more of the work created with it.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 30 Dec 2018

Complex-1 sounds, dare I say it, analog to me. And by that I mean it sounds like a hardware kit plugged to a mixing board, not just codes. There is an added dimension to the sound. Maybe I am dreaming. :D
Good job Props, again.

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cognitive
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Post 30 Dec 2018

bxbrkrz wrote:
30 Dec 2018
Complex-1 sounds, dare I say it, analog to me. And by that I mean it sounds like a hardware kit plugged to a mixing board, not just codes. There is an added dimension to the sound. Maybe I am dreaming. :D
Good job Props, again.
The fidelity and 4x oversampling really becomes apparent when you get into complicated patches with a lot of interplay between modules. It retains its "analog" character and even with weird complex processing, I can still hear all the chirpy highs and rumbling lows of the signal, and any artifacts seem to be part of the "analog" signal like a real modular.

I did some A/B testing with Thor to make sure that I wasn't imagining a better sound, and yes indeed, there is a pretty big difference in fidelity and even "analog" interplay once you get outside of basic "oscillator-filter-envelope" patches.

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