Complex from Propellerhead

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SoundObjects
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Dec 2018

Post 21 Dec 2018

On Complex and other RE synths with lacking CV inputs on the back panel I
often use this simple workaround:

1. Put the RE synth into a combinator.

2. In the combinator programmer select the synth and map the desired CV to one of the 4 rotarys.

3. Plug the cable from the CV source output into the selected rotary input on the combinator back panel.

Of course this workaround is only for lacking CV inputs and not the lacking CV outputs
and audio ;)

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buddard
Posts: 497
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 21 Dec 2018

dioxide wrote:
21 Dec 2018
Just a thought, I don't know if it can answered without breaking an NDA. Is it possible to have an interactive display like this on the back of the device? This would allow cabling to be done on the back (and save with patches) but have a more traditional front UI.
I don’t think I’m overstepping anything by saying that no, you’re not allowed to put custom displays on the back panel.

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kuhliloach
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Post 21 Dec 2018

antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2018
kuhliloach wrote:
20 Dec 2018
Looks cool! Sounds cool! But why is it so absurdly expensive? Is there really a thriving market for $100 software synths? This is yet another RE in a long list of Props-developed RE's that are far out of my price range (unlike Hybrid 3 which I recently bought on sale for a dollar.) Hope you all enjoy it.
How old is Hybrid3? I'd imagine its sales covered the development costs few times over by now, so it's just a free publicity nowadays.

Also, you can get Complex-1 via rent-to-own for 9.99 / month

Lastly, where were you that you're not aware of synths costing around 100? Just the ones I considered recently - Virus @89, Hive @119, Dune3 *upgrade* @79 are all +/- 100. This is a regular price for a synth.
I am aware there are synths priced at $100 or more all across the market. I just don't buy them; as it stands I'm up to my ears in synths and still have so much to learn about Reason's stock synths. And it's not just $100 Propellerhead synths I don't buy -- it all vendors. I'll probably never own Serum. Maybe if the low cost or free synths I already have weren't so darn powerful I might see offerings like these as something I need. But that's not the case. Parsec, Layers, PX7, Complex-1, Umpf, Quad Note Generator, are just a few in a long list of plugins I won't pay more than twenty dollars for.

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antic604
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 21 Dec 2018

kuhliloach wrote:
21 Dec 2018
I am aware there are synths priced at $100 or more all across the market. I just don't buy them; as it stands I'm up to my ears in synths and still have so much to learn about Reason's stock synths. And it's not just $100 Propellerhead synths I don't buy -- it all vendors. I'll probably never own Serum. Maybe if the low cost or free synths I already have weren't so darn powerful I might see offerings like these as something I need. But that's not the case. Parsec, Layers, PX7, Complex-1, Umpf, Quad Note Generator, are just a few in a long list of plugins I won't pay more than twenty dollars for.
So, in other words you're saying it should cost less because YOU have many other synths you've not mastered yet? Hmm...
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
My music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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theshoemaker
Posts: 573
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Location: Germany

Post 21 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
21 Dec 2018
theshoemaker wrote:
21 Dec 2018
I am overwhelmed ... will have some playtime over christmas.

I've just been throwing my REndmozier on complex ... need to create some meaningfull randomization rules first.

But it's really nice doing random exploration. Here is a short 15 minute 'Let's REndomize'

Just a thought perhaps a few more excludes and batch the randomness would be in order there. Approach it locally per module?

The way I see it there is far to many possible combinations to get to a patch that might yield favourable results. Might be better to randomise on 1 or 2 outputs at a time also!

Exactly what I did afterwards. Just wanted to test first. Will do more over the holidays, and hoping to come closer to a beta release. Antidote spits out amazing results on total randomization. But this all offtopic. Great device! Love the possibilities
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V10 on MacOS Sierra

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theshoemaker
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Location: Germany

Post 21 Dec 2018

sdst wrote:
18 Dec 2018
looks great, only need a randomize button. :)
I tried that... have a look at page 10 or 11 of this thread. Very hard for total randomization. But you get amazing results after some time. TBH per MODULE randomization works great. Here is a short demo for the OSC modules

:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V10 on MacOS Sierra

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theshoemaker
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Post 21 Dec 2018

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2018
scratchnsnifff wrote:
18 Dec 2018

Ohh I mis represented what I meant. While I see what you mean and you are correct I just mean something along the lines of a limited size modular. Like for example take complex 1. But have drop down field arrows (like in an excel table) and have the option of having various oscillators filters etc

But yeah, if someone who was wanting a full blown system, you’d have to get use to building up and downwards due to the width restraint, do you think it’s possible for the props to add interchangeable oscillators to this synth as is though?
If I understand what's going on, my personal view (not based on any inside information) is that the limitations would involve the number and placement and name of the modulation points. All jacks would have to be in exactly the same place and have the same name (I could be wrong about this part) to work correctly. This means all connections would remain in place when you switched modules. This also means you could likely only select (at best) between a very limited number of similar modules, which is VERY non-modular at the core. It's only one small step away from the current setup, and there would certainly be no way for third party modules.

In fact, even adding what I described above, if possible, may require a whole new synth.

Of course, I would love to have different oscillators and filter options at the very least. But maybe there's a better way to do this, which is to do it as it is done with the Noise and Function module, where you select from a list of possible core options and the UI stays the same.
I think it is just because of sandboxing every RE. other than this I don’t see any difficulties proving an API for modules like this
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V10 on MacOS Sierra

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AttenuationHz
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

Post 21 Dec 2018

theshoemaker wrote:
21 Dec 2018


I think it is just because of sandboxing every RE. other than this I don’t see any difficulties proving an API for modules like this
Cool stuff! :thumbs_up:
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dioxide
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Post 21 Dec 2018

buddard wrote:
21 Dec 2018
dioxide wrote:
21 Dec 2018
Just a thought, I don't know if it can answered without breaking an NDA. Is it possible to have an interactive display like this on the back of the device? This would allow cabling to be done on the back (and save with patches) but have a more traditional front UI.
I don’t think I’m overstepping anything by saying that no, you’re not allowed to put custom displays on the back panel.
Thanks for the reply. So this type of cabling could only be done on the front panel then. I've seen some REs with mod matrixes on the back I think, so perhaps a RE could have cables on the front with the mod matrix on the back. Except that as others have said the number of matrix slots would be huge.

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aeox
Posts: 1900
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Location: Oregon

Post 21 Dec 2018

kuhliloach wrote:
21 Dec 2018
antic604 wrote:
21 Dec 2018


How old is Hybrid3? I'd imagine its sales covered the development costs few times over by now, so it's just a free publicity nowadays.

Also, you can get Complex-1 via rent-to-own for 9.99 / month

Lastly, where were you that you're not aware of synths costing around 100? Just the ones I considered recently - Virus @89, Hive @119, Dune3 *upgrade* @79 are all +/- 100. This is a regular price for a synth.
I am aware there are synths priced at $100 or more all across the market. I just don't buy them; as it stands I'm up to my ears in synths and still have so much to learn about Reason's stock synths. And it's not just $100 Propellerhead synths I don't buy -- it all vendors. I'll probably never own Serum. Maybe if the low cost or free synths I already have weren't so darn powerful I might see offerings like these as something I need. But that's not the case. Parsec, Layers, PX7, Complex-1, Umpf, Quad Note Generator, are just a few in a long list of plugins I won't pay more than twenty dollars for.
To each his own man.. I wouldn't let someone pay ME 100 dollars to use that hybrid 3 synth you mentioned.

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 1866
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

Post 21 Dec 2018

aeox wrote:
21 Dec 2018
kuhliloach wrote:
21 Dec 2018


I am aware there are synths priced at $100 or more all across the market. I just don't buy them; as it stands I'm up to my ears in synths and still have so much to learn about Reason's stock synths. And it's not just $100 Propellerhead synths I don't buy -- it all vendors. I'll probably never own Serum. Maybe if the low cost or free synths I already have weren't so darn powerful I might see offerings like these as something I need. But that's not the case. Parsec, Layers, PX7, Complex-1, Umpf, Quad Note Generator, are just a few in a long list of plugins I won't pay more than twenty dollars for.
To each his own man.. I wouldn't let someone pay ME 100 dollars to use that hybrid 3 synth you mentioned.
Wouldn't use it if you paid me $100 :P
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aeox
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Post 21 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
21 Dec 2018
aeox wrote:
21 Dec 2018


To each his own man.. I wouldn't let someone pay ME 100 dollars to use that hybrid 3 synth you mentioned.
Wouldn't use it if you paid me $100 :P
I said that wrong didn't I? :puf_bigsmile:

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AttenuationHz
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Post 21 Dec 2018

aeox wrote:
21 Dec 2018
AttenuationHz wrote:
21 Dec 2018


Wouldn't use it if you paid me $100 :P
I said that wrong didn't I? :puf_bigsmile:
Thought so :lol:
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aeox
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Post 21 Dec 2018

AttenuationHz wrote:
21 Dec 2018
aeox wrote:
21 Dec 2018


I said that wrong didn't I? :puf_bigsmile:
Thought so :lol:
Still makes sense in my tiny little brain :thumbs_up:

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selig
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Post 21 Dec 2018

dioxide wrote:
buddard wrote:
21 Dec 2018

I don’t think I’m overstepping anything by saying that no, you’re not allowed to put custom displays on the back panel.
Thanks for the reply. So this type of cabling could only be done on the front panel then. I've seen some REs with mod matrixes on the back I think, so perhaps a RE could have cables on the front with the mod matrix on the back. Except that as others have said the number of matrix slots would be huge.
Hey, with so few jacks on the back, there’s plenty of room. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be done with a mod matrix. But the point is Complex-1 is pretty useful as it is now as far as I’m concerned! ;)


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Selig Audio, LLC

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eXode
Posts: 643
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 22 Dec 2018

Nice synth. I do wish they would have given it some polyphony and more I/O (on the back). Also, the lack of aftertouch is a strange omission, but still a nice synth.

Another personal want/wish is that I would have preferred a dual function generator a la maths, or similar, instead of the ADSR to give it even more west coast flavor.

Image

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 1866
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

Post 22 Dec 2018

eXode wrote:
22 Dec 2018
Nice synth. I do wish they would have given it some polyphony and more I/O (on the back). Also, the lack of aftertouch is a strange omission, but still a nice synth.

Another personal want/wish is that I would have preferred a dual function generator a la maths, or similar, instead of the ADSR to give it even more west coast flavor.
That would probably require a manual of its own but definitely would have been great! Even something similar to Rampage would have been nice.

Image
Last edited by AttenuationHz on 22 Dec 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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selig
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Post 22 Dec 2018

eXode wrote:
22 Dec 2018
Nice synth. I do wish they would have given it some polyphony and more I/O (on the back). Also, the lack of aftertouch is a strange omission, but still a nice synth.

Another personal want/wish is that I would have preferred a dual function generator a la maths, or similar, instead of the ADSR to give it even more west coast flavor.

Image
I was hoping for both, actually, or at least the ability to switch. The attraction of Eurorack for me is the mix/match ability, which is not really present in Complex-1.
Selig Audio, LLC

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xylyx
Posts: 127
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Post 22 Dec 2018

I really wanted to like this synth...I really did. I think the initial patch, Canada, sounds great...there are probably a couple more that I liked too but, overall, it just didn't float my boat enough to make me want to buy it - plus, I don't have enough time to learn to make my own patches, which is where I think the strength of this kind of synth lies.

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 1866
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

Post 22 Dec 2018

xylyx wrote:
22 Dec 2018
I really wanted to like this synth...I really did. I think the initial patch, Canada, sounds great...there are probably a couple more that I liked too but, overall, it just didn't float my boat enough to make me want to buy it - plus, I don't have enough time to learn to make my own patches, which is where I think the strength of this kind of synth lies.
It definitely lies in having previous experience with modular theory. But I wouldn't let that hold you back. There are a lot of Youtube resources explaining how stuff works you can pick that up pretty much hand in hand with patching it and the concepts would be the same. There is one in particular that I found very helpful:

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AttenuationHz
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Post 22 Dec 2018

Where's the best place to report bugs for Complex-1? bugs@propellerheads.se or is there a Zendesk link that's still in use, like the beta for 10.2?

Iv'e come across a few that might have been missed.
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mon
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Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 22 Dec 2018

Jmax wrote:This may be a stupid question..

How do I go about capturing the audio it is creating. Say I load a Generative patch and hit record... but no midi is captured. So in turn doesn't capture any audio from the device. Even though it keeps playing.
I think an easy way is to draw an empty midi clip and then bounce it in place. It should work just fine and is faster then recording in real time. :)


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kuhliloach
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Joined: 09 Dec 2015

Post 22 Dec 2018

For something that's modular the most odd thing about it is that all the modules are stuck together in a static non-modular fashion with no way to remove modules; the intention is that you don't remove them, you just don't use the modules you don't want to use, but you still have to look at them. I was hoping for a real Euro rack emulation at some point. That said I feel Props has done a great thing with front facing slidable cables. Complex-1 is so "Propellerhead" in my opinion. Plop a giant non-standard interface in the middle of a previously existing land of confusion and you can be "Propellerhead" too. This thing is as daring as taking early Reason and plopping a giant SSL emulation on top of it. Jarring. Strange. Unfriendly. Yet very powerful once you get used to it. They are Homer Simpson in software company form.

Image

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cognitive
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Los Angeles

Post 22 Dec 2018

I'm coming to grips with this synth and discovering it is quite a sonic joy. I've been forcing myself to start from scratch on patches and I'm getting sounds that wouldn't have even been on my radar to try if I didn't have this all-in-one playground full of happy accidents. Sometimes I get what I want, but just as often it seems I end up with something that's even better than what I had in mind.

Right now I'm having a blast creating paraphonic sequences with rumbly bass grooves and chimy melodies all within one instance of Complex-1. And with 4x oversampling ... :-D

Loving it. :D

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BRIGGS
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Location: Orange County California

Post 23 Dec 2018

kuhliloach wrote:
22 Dec 2018
For something that's modular the most odd thing about it is that all the modules are stuck together in a static non-modular fashion with no way to remove modules; the intention is that you don't remove them, you just don't use the modules you don't want to use, but you still have to look at them. I was hoping for a real Euro rack emulation at some point. That said I feel Props has done a great thing with front facing slidable cables. Complex-1 is so "Propellerhead" in my opinion. Plop a giant non-standard interface in the middle of a previously existing land of confusion and you can be "Propellerhead" too. This thing is as daring as taking early Reason and plopping a giant SSL emulation on top of it. Jarring. Strange. Unfriendly. Yet very powerful once you get used to it. They are Homer Simpson in software company form.

Image
Doh! :puf_smile:

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