Complex from Propellerhead

[AttenuationHz]

Started reading the manual there it is really nicely done, has some great little tips for modular synthesis concepts from what Iv'e been learning the past year or so anyway. I'm very surprised to learn that OSC 3 can go all the way down to 0.01hz doubling as an LFO - I understand LFO's are just slower oscillators, the part I'm surprised about is why complex has been limited to 1 LFO and an extra Oscillator could have gotten 2 extra oscillators in there or the extra LFO. OSC 3 has those very slow capabilities and 0 indication of the speed in Hz of the oscillation. The LFO has no capabilities to go slower than 0.13hz and goes up to 66hz doubling as a sub bass oscillator essentially.

It would have been nice for both OSC 3 and the LFO not to be so generic and instead make use of the space both occupy and use both functions as you would see fit. There are times when you need a second LFO and or a 3rd or 4th oscillator.

I haven't seen complex clip once, which is spectacular! Even when slamming the gain and inputting to another Complex to its filter. Does the filter have a built in limiter or where on the chain does it get limited? I've not come across it in the manual if it's in there.

LFOs: There’s also the Clock LFO. The mainLFO and Osc 3 can both be driving way slower than the knob on the front.

If you want more LFOs, I like hooking Pulsar’s two LFOS to the CV inputs.

More Oscillators:? Hook up another Complex-1 to the audio inputs and get three more!

Lot’s of options when you start combining devices, just like with a real modular!


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

Please do fill us in how can you cycle the main LFO slower than 0.13hz?

---

Not sure OSC 3 is 0.01hz actually, think that might be a typo in the manual or maybe I picked it up wrong. 0.01hz is fairly slow, here's what it looks like compared to littleLFO's 0.010hz Triangle.

osc3_0.01hzVSlittleLFO0.010hz.gif (113.19 KiB) Viewed 3065 times

I can make OSC 3 out to be at slowest speed is 0.3hz.

---

Just to reiterate my point, the extra space could have been utilised more by doubling the functions of an OSC/LFO, both could have bridged the gap with each other. I'll definitely be using external LFO's if the need calls for it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not giving out about how it is and its not to take away to from how brilliant Complex-1 is.

[AttenuationHz]

So...have yet to play with it. Looking forward to it when I get home this weekend! I have one question, what can you do with the audio in on the back? I’ve ran my guitar output through a hardware setup as a sound source and was able to sample some really unique sounds...wondering if it may be possible to the same with Complex-1?

Think a more intriguing question is what can't you do with it! You can convert it to CV.

The list is possibly endless but here's one or two things you might do with it.

For low-fidelitly effects you could turn complex into a distortion unit. You can utilise Complex's Oscillator to get pretty mean sounding distortion on the audio source. Connect an audio source to the back and then connect it to the pitch on OSC 1+2.

You could simply add some sub bass to a loop easily and control its decay on trigger with the ADSR.
You could use a loop to reset an LFO. You could use the loop to gate a signal.
You could just use it to filter a loop.
You could Gate the Audio signal connecting it to the ADSR.
So many wonderful things you would have to get lost in!
You could in theory record your own LFO patterns have them play from the sequencer and apply time stretching to get custom synced LFO's.
Possibilities..... You could also shape these LFO patterns however you see fit. Which fundamentally your LFO would now be converted into an analogue LFO.

I think we need a thread dedicated to what you can do!

[raymondh]

I believe the cric's about it being mono ain't opened up VCV or by that matter have seen the complexity behind poly modular, it would be nice to have a poly refill collection on start, but Distributor and Poseidon are not stock...

This (distributor) is something I've wished the Combinator could do for years. Would especially come in handy with Complex-1 IMO.

I bought but never use Distributor. I love the concept, but wish there was some way that changes I make to a synth patch could be cloned across all the synth instances without having to 'save' from the synth I'm changing and then 'load' into each of the instances individually. Is there an easier way/better workflow you have found for sound design for poly patches?

[QVprod]

This (distributor) is something I've wished the Combinator could do for years. Would especially come in handy with Complex-1 IMO.

I bought but never use Distributor. I love the concept, but wish there was some way that changes I make to a synth patch could be cloned across all the synth instances without having to 'save' from the synth I'm changing and then 'load' into each of the instances individually. Is there an easier way/better workflow you have found for sound design for poly patches?

You can right click to copy patch (current settings) from one and paste to others. You'd still be doing things individually, but it's quick and you won't be dealing with saving and loading presets if that's what you meant.

A way to link the synths (like we can now do with faders) would be welcomed though.

[buddard]

This (distributor) is something I've wished the Combinator could do for years. Would especially come in handy with Complex-1 IMO.

I bought but never use Distributor. I love the concept, but wish there was some way that changes I make to a synth patch could be cloned across all the synth instances without having to 'save' from the synth I'm changing and then 'load' into each of the instances individually. Is there an easier way/better workflow you have found for sound design for poly patches?

You can copy and paste settings between instances: Right-click on instance 1, "Copy Patch", right click on instances 2...N and "Paste Patch" on each one. Far quicker than saving/loading, at least.

[raymondh]

I bought but never use Distributor. I love the concept, but wish there was some way that changes I make to a synth patch could be cloned across all the synth instances without having to 'save' from the synth I'm changing and then 'load' into each of the instances individually. Is there an easier way/better workflow you have found for sound design for poly patches?

You can right click to copy patch (current settings) from one and paste to others. You'd still be doing things individually, but it's quick and you won't be dealing with saving and loading presets if that's what you meant.

A way to link the synths (like we can now do with faders) would be welcomed though.

That's awesome! Thanks very much!

[raymondh]

I bought but never use Distributor. I love the concept, but wish there was some way that changes I make to a synth patch could be cloned across all the synth instances without having to 'save' from the synth I'm changing and then 'load' into each of the instances individually. Is there an easier way/better workflow you have found for sound design for poly patches?

You can copy and paste settings between instances: Right-click on instance 1, "Copy Patch", right click on instances 2...N and "Paste Patch" on each one. Far quicker than saving/loading, at least.

Fantastic! Thanks very much!

[miscend]

What possible incentive does someone like Urs have for developing RE's when people can simply load his VSTs in Reason....

Reveal Sound were asked the same. And they answered that some prefer prefer to work in the RE format and they will continue to serve those customers. Rob Papen also continues to support the format with great success. Whether you like it or not there are good reasons to support REs. Same as any other format really such as AAX or Linux LV2.

People here have weird expectations of devs. Urs is easily one of the most approachable and useful devs available in the KVR forums. The attacks on him here are really misguided.

/end rant

Many of his supporters have a mob like mentality on KVR. They will attack you like a pack of wolves if you are very critical.

[selig]

Please do fill us in how can you cycle the main LFO slower than 0.13hz?

Not sure OSC 3 is 0.01hz actually, think that might be a typo in the manual or maybe I picked it up wrong. 0.01hz is fairly slow, here's what it looks like compared to littleLFO's 0.010hz Triangle.

I can make OSC 3 out to be at slowest speed is 0.3hz.

Just like with Thor, with Complex-1 you can use a constant CV value to drive most parameters beyond the knob range.

For the LFO, use the Mix section with no inputs connected, and a full negative value on the knob. Connect the output to control the rate of the LFO. At a certain point (below 50% or so) the LFO will actually stall, which I was told has to do with the oversampling. But before that you can get it to the point where it's taking over 30 seconds for one cycle.

At its default lowest setting on the LFO the rate is 0.13 Hz, which is around one cycle every 7-8 seconds. If you return the rate to the default center position and apply full negative CV, the rate is around one cycle every 44 seconds. You can go as low as 1.48 Hz on the control, which equals around one cycle every 86 seconds before the LFO "stalls"! The LFO stalls on the way back up from negative values when it gets to zero, so you won't see it stall until that point if you go below 1.48 with full negative CV.

Osc 3 hits a minimum of around one cycle every 12 seconds, slower than the primary LFO. The lowest it can go before stalling is -10 will full negative CV applied. This results in one cycle every 344 seconds, but only when it's not connected internally (I measured it while it was connected externally). Internally it's exactly he same as the LFO, 86 seconds per cycle. I'm really not sure why Osc 3 can run slower than the LFO with negative CV, until you actually patch it to a module rather than the external CV jack - again, could have to do with the internal oversampling?

At times I can get the LFOs to go even lower and run fine for a while, so the above numbers may not be accurate in every case. There could be some other circumstances involved which dictates the most reliable lowest setting. If you modulated the rate, you could get slower rates for some of the cycle, you just have to get it above the lowest level to make sure it keeps running - could be a cool effect, stalling and re-starting.

[AttenuationHz]

Please do fill us in how can you cycle the main LFO slower than 0.13hz?

Not sure OSC 3 is 0.01hz actually, think that might be a typo in the manual or maybe I picked it up wrong. 0.01hz is fairly slow, here's what it looks like compared to littleLFO's 0.010hz Triangle.

I can make OSC 3 out to be at slowest speed is 0.3hz.

Just like with Thor, with Complex-1 you can use a constant CV value to drive most parameters beyond the knob range.

For the LFO, use the Mix section with no inputs connected, and a full negative value on the knob. Connect the output to control the rate of the LFO. At a certain point (below 50% or so) the LFO will actually stall, which I was told has to do with the oversampling. But before that you can get it to the point where it's taking over 30 seconds for one cycle.

At its default lowest setting on the LFO the rate is 0.13 Hz, which is around one cycle every 7-8 seconds. If you return the rate to the default center position and apply full negative CV, the rate is around one cycle every 44 seconds. You can go as low as 1.48 Hz on the control, which equals around one cycle every 86 seconds before the LFO "stalls"! The LFO stalls on the way back up from negative values when it gets to zero, so you won't see it stall until that point if you go below 1.48 with full negative CV.

Osc 3 hits a minimum of around one cycle every 12 seconds, slower than the primary LFO. The lowest it can go before stalling is -10 will full negative CV applied. This results in one cycle every 344 seconds! I'm really not sure why Osc 3 can run slower than the LFO with negative CV, but it could come in handy I'm sure.

At times I can get the LFOs to go even lower and run fine for a while, so the above numbers may not be accurate in every case. There could be some other circumstances involved which dictates the most reliable lowest setting.

Ahh very nice it just attenuates the rate, completely forgot about being able to do that. So the same can be done on the opposite end of the scale making the LFO go beyond 66hz.

Also if you connect the input on the attenuator to the Key 1 out you can tune that sucker!

Set the attenuator on the mix section to 0.144 and the LFO rate set to 55hz connect the key to the input on the mix section. Play the notes on the midi keyboard.

Could come in handy if you needed to change the LFO rate on the fly. Double the speed hit the second octave up etc... The mix section values could stack also for a year long LFO

[hurricane]

Many of his supporters have a mob like mentality on KVR. They will attack you like a pack of wolves if you are very critical.

Hmmmm I wonder what happens HERE when you shit-talk the Props?

[Krell]

If they bring out Complex-1 as a VST I'll be all over it. Interesting conceptually, sounds great. GUI is a bit meh but whatever. However, an instrument locked in to the RE paradigm just doesn't make any sense.

[AttenuationHz]

Many of his supporters have a mob like mentality on KVR. They will attack you like a pack of wolves if you are very critical.

Hmmmm I wonder what happens HERE when you shit-talk the Props?

Well it is usually dealt with in a civil manner using logic and reasoning to come your own conclusions.

[TheGodOfRainbows]

Another synth that I'm not smart enough to use. I recognize it's power, so I'm very interested. But after just now trying it for the first time with an Initialized patch, I feel kind of overwhelmed about how to do anything. But I openly admit, understanding all the ins and outs (audio pun) of synthesis is not at all second nature to me.

Some of these comments in this thread have me pretty lost. Still, interesting to read. The depth and the COMPLEXity of this synth are indeed a great sonic playground to spend time it. Probably not a synth for simple people like me, but down the road if I get smarter somehow, I'll revisit it.

[kuhliloach]

Looks cool! Sounds cool! But why is it so absurdly expensive? Is there really a thriving market for $100 software synths? This is yet another RE in a long list of Props-developed RE's that are far out of my price range (unlike Hybrid 3 which I recently bought on sale for a dollar.) Hope you all enjoy it.

[aeox]

Looks cool! Sounds cool! But why is it so absurdly expensive? Is there really a thriving market for $100 software synths? This is yet another RE in a long list of Props-developed RE's that are far out of my price range (unlike Hybrid 3 which I recently bought on sale for a dollar.) Hope you all enjoy it.

Worth every penny

[BRIGGS]

Looks cool! Sounds cool! But why is it so absurdly expensive? Is there really a thriving market for $100 software synths? This is yet another RE in a long list of Props-developed RE's that are far out of my price range (unlike Hybrid 3 which I recently bought on sale for a dollar.) Hope you all enjoy it.

Worth every penny

What are the odds, we'll see a Christmas sale?

[Krell]

Exactly. There is no point in getting it at full price as we all know that it will be on sale at some stage for half the price. I think that goes for every dev though; list things at a high price, get a few initial early adopter sales then once the hype dies down drop the price in special offers to get the bulk of sales. It's odd that this has become the new norm, essentially we know, and the devs know, that at some stage that 100 buck plugin will be 50. See you in the Boxing Day sale, or Easter sale, or Black Friday Sale...

[antic604]

Looks cool! Sounds cool! But why is it so absurdly expensive? Is there really a thriving market for $100 software synths? This is yet another RE in a long list of Props-developed RE's that are far out of my price range (unlike Hybrid 3 which I recently bought on sale for a dollar.) Hope you all enjoy it.

How old is Hybrid3? I'd imagine its sales covered the development costs few times over by now, so it's just a free publicity nowadays.

Also, you can get Complex-1 via rent-to-own for 9.99 / month

Lastly, where were you that you're not aware of synths costing around 100? Just the ones I considered recently - Virus @89, Hive @119, Dune3 *upgrade* @79 are all +/- 100. This is a regular price for a synth.

[Krell]

Yes there are plenty of high priced plugins, but unfortunately (or fortunately?) they have sales where they are much cheaper. Perhaps a topic for another thread but relevant in the context (Complex-1) perhaps. I admire Spectrasonics. Their synths are highly priced and never go on sale, it gives you confidence in your purchase. Nothing worse than spending a hundred then have the dev sell it for half a few weeks or months later. Essentially we know that Complex-1 is worth 50 but is currently 100. Anyway, end of rant

[Faastwalker]

This is bloody awesome! I feel like Xmas came early. The video for Compact-1 popped up in YouTube the night before my last day at work for the Xmas break. Perfect timing for me. Really blown away by this. It sounds fantastic. An amazing addition to the Reason Rack. Will be buying this one for sure. Maybe Rent-to-Own. Essential for me. I guess it won't be for everyone. But if you have any interest in modular synthesis then I think this has really raised the game for Reason users. An unexpected & very welcome addition.

The only gripe is this device makes me wish Reason could 'zoom to device' / scale the rack like no other. It's fiddly to use. I'm glad Propellerhead didn't try to cram any more in there. It would have been far too busy. As it is though? Amazing. I hope we see more of this sort of thing in the future. And it would be really amazing if you could interconnect between devices on the front panel. but it looks like this may not be possible currently. Not that big a deal as you can still connect things together in the traditional Reason way.

[antic604]

What are the odds, we'll see a Christmas sale?

Props have been having Holiday Sale since after Black Monday, so it's highly unlikely.

[illlumen]

It looks great at the first glance. But for me it is very disappointing that the back looks so empty. The props missed a great chance to make that synth fully compatible with other cv options. That's a pity, because it would have been great to mess around further with the signals and them get them back into the synth. And compared to u-he bazille for my taste there isn't enough analogueness in the sound, even if the buchla inspired design is very well thought out. But then again I‘d prefer arturias buchla easel or aalto. There's a lot of competition in the vst world, so using the back for extra cabling (maybe like a mirrored version of the front cables) would have been a great feature to make the synth stand out and integrate in the reason world.

[SoundObjects]

In general I think Complex -1 must be a big step in development of modular software synths.
It produce sounds very close to the hardware versions of Buchla and Make Noise 0-Coast.
Further it's faithful to there modular concept. (except bad connections )

Reason has only been a continue creative experience since I started using it again.
I updated from ver. 4 to10 after many years working with Cubase and Ableton live.
Together with my external gear it gave me a lot of new inspiration and possibilities.
Then I got a bunch of REs and it gave me more endless possibilities.
And now Complex -1 with even more endless possibilities.

Just overwhelming

[VariableX]

In general I think Complex -1 must be a big step in development of modular software synths.
It produce sounds very close to the hardware versions of Buchla and Make Noise 0-Coast.
Further it's faithful to there modular concept. (except bad connections )

Reason has only been a continue creative experience since I started using it again.
I updated from ver. 4 to10 after many years working with Cubase and Ableton live.
Together with my external gear it gave me a lot of new inspiration and possibilities.
Then I got a bunch of REs and it gave me more endless possibilities.
And now Complex -1 with even more endless possibilities.

Just overwhelming

this is so true, its been a real dream to jump onboard Reason10 in April/May ... with Grain and Europa, then get given a fantastic Drum sequencer, then have exciting new products such as Umpf and stuff, DAW updates, great RE sales, the QUAD player was a suprise and then bam Complex-1! Also Rewards and Rent-to-own has been introduced in this period.

There are just so many ways to use Reason you can't get bored

I really love how Complex-1 looks, it sounds absolutly fantastic, and I have no idea how to use it but, I will for sure purchase it once my trial expires