Chord Detector for Guitar Input?

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teddymcw
Posts: 432
Joined: 13 May 2016

19 Jun 2018

Looking for some nice methods to play some random guitar notes and then get the computer to analyze them and tell me which chords I'm playing, just as Static Cling's Chord Detector does for Midi keyboard input or I believe Selig's Note View does as well.

I'm aware that pitch detection doesn't work well with chords, but maybe there is some software I'm not aware that can manage this?

The only work arounds I have right now are to play each note one by one, convert to midi and then align so that the devices mentioned above can detect them, but I'm looking to cut out those steps for a smoother production process.

Thanks!

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

19 Jun 2018

Is it really faster than looking at the fretboard? :) If you want to cut those steps and improve your production process I suggest simply learn how to identify those notes on the fretboard. Hint: You just need to learn the notes on the bottom two strings and then learn how octaves are laid out on the fretboard ;)

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teddymcw
Posts: 432
Joined: 13 May 2016

19 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
19 Jun 2018
Is it really faster than looking at the fretboard? :) If you want to cut those steps and improve your production process I suggest simply learn how to identify those notes on the fretboard. Hint: You just need to learn the notes on the bottom two strings and then learn how octaves are laid out on the fretboard ;)
Yep yep, I hear ya.

The gap in my knowledge is really playing interesting intervals and knowing what chord and/or what type of chord I was playing.

I always have a Tome fretboard up for reference if I need, but making sense of each chord is still tough and is a learning process that some tech could help out with for sure along the way. Eventually I'll get to a very filled out knowledge but kind of looking for some cheat codes along the way :) if they exist

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guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

19 Jun 2018

definitely doable, if you’re willing to spend a bit, and do some setup. I run Jam Origin’s MIDI Guitar 2 in stand-alone mode, alongside Reason (it doesn’t work directly within Reason...yet).

the MIDI interface output from MIDI Guitar 2 is set to loopMIDI (or another MIDI loopback you’ll need to install). in Reason, the loopback is added as a controller, allowing the MIDI from the app into Reason, to control any MIDI device as normal. you can then just drop a Static Cling Chord Detector Player above the MIDI instrument. play notes on guitar, read Chord Detector, hear the guitar play your MIDI instrument, enjoy. :)

MIDI Guitar 2 is $100 (but is well worth it, IMO—the tracking is excellent), and I think Chord Detector is around $30 in the Props shop, maybe? the loopback setup was the most difficult part, but it was still really easy—there are instructions on how to set it up in Reason right on the Jam Origin website.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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teddymcw
Posts: 432
Joined: 13 May 2016

20 Jun 2018

guitfnky wrote:
19 Jun 2018

the MIDI interface output from MIDI Guitar 2 is set to loopMIDI (or another MIDI loopback you’ll need to install). in Reason, the loopback is added as a controller, allowing the MIDI from the app into Reason, to control any MIDI device as normal. you can then just drop a Static Cling Chord Detector Player above the MIDI instrument. play notes on guitar, read Chord Detector, hear the guitar play your MIDI instrument, enjoy. :)
Well well, this is precisely the piece of software I was interested in but hadn't heard about until now. You are superbly awesome for the write up good person! I will def give it a whirl and unleash what it gives me!

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2018

teddymcw wrote:
19 Jun 2018
normen wrote:
19 Jun 2018
Is it really faster than looking at the fretboard? :) If you want to cut those steps and improve your production process I suggest simply learn how to identify those notes on the fretboard. Hint: You just need to learn the notes on the bottom two strings and then learn how octaves are laid out on the fretboard ;)
Yep yep, I hear ya.

The gap in my knowledge is really playing interesting intervals and knowing what chord and/or what type of chord I was playing.

I always have a Tome fretboard up for reference if I need, but making sense of each chord is still tough and is a learning process that some tech could help out with for sure along the way. Eventually I'll get to a very filled out knowledge but kind of looking for some cheat codes along the way :) if they exist
On guitar it‘s much easier to identify intervals even if you don‘t know the notes because theres no black keys. Two strings up and two frets up is always an octave etc.

antic604

20 Jun 2018

Try this maybe? It works pretty well (and is on -50% sale at 5.50EUR):
https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/h ... ngkey-mk2/

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

20 Jun 2018

I checked out the product video. It’s amazing how much lower the bar to music production has become even over the last 5 years. Instead of needing products that slow down CDs or MP3s for a guitarist to learn new riffs, we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.

However (and you KNEW there had to be one, right?)

In the long-term you will be far far better served by mastering musical theory and practice. You’ll be able to put your ideas down just as fast as you can dream them up, and creating complex, building harmonic structures no longer becomes something you need to do by ear in the MIDI piano roll.

If you ever want to play with a band, and the leader shouts out “key of G” you’re going to want to be able to identify that the song is G Dorian PDQ if you want to look competent.

Last, but not least....I want you to have to put the same work that I did so I don’t feel as if everyone younger than I am gets to somehow “cheat the system” :-)
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

antic604

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.
Sad to do this to you, but it actually gets worse:



:D

He didn't show yet another trick, that you can change the chords up top and the AUDIO file will also be re-pitched accordingly.

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
I checked out the product video. It’s amazing how much lower the bar to music production has become even over the last 5 years. Instead of needing products that slow down CDs or MP3s for a guitarist to learn new riffs, we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.

However (and you KNEW there had to be one, right?)

In the long-term you will be far far better served by mastering musical theory and practice. You’ll be able to put your ideas down just as fast as you can dream them up, and creating complex, building harmonic structures no longer becomes something you need to do by ear in the MIDI piano roll.

If you ever want to play with a band, and the leader shouts out “key of G” you’re going to want to be able to identify that the song is G Dorian PDQ if you want to look competent.

Last, but not least....I want you to have to put the same work that I did so I don’t feel as if everyone younger than I am gets to somehow “cheat the system” :-)
I don't know, I think it all pretty much stayed the same. Those that want to dive deep do so and those that want to stay on the surface do that. I mean it's a bit like in "Bill & Ted" - imagine what Mozart would do with a laptop these days :) Or the other way around - is it cheating to put frets on stringed instruments? Doesn't it just allow us to go further / elsewhere?

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

20 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
20 Jun 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
I checked out the product video. It’s amazing how much lower the bar to music production has become even over the last 5 years. Instead of needing products that slow down CDs or MP3s for a guitarist to learn new riffs, we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.

However (and you KNEW there had to be one, right?)

In the long-term you will be far far better served by mastering musical theory and practice. You’ll be able to put your ideas down just as fast as you can dream them up, and creating complex, building harmonic structures no longer becomes something you need to do by ear in the MIDI piano roll.

If you ever want to play with a band, and the leader shouts out “key of G” you’re going to want to be able to identify that the song is G Dorian PDQ if you want to look competent.

Last, but not least....I want you to have to put the same work that I did so I don’t feel as if everyone younger than I am gets to somehow “cheat the system” :-)
I don't know, I think it all pretty much stayed the same. Those that want to dive deep do so and those that want to stay on the surface do that. I mean it's a bit like in "Bill & Ted" - imagine what Mozart would do with a laptop these days :) Or the other way around - is it cheating to put frets on stringed instruments? Doesn't it just allow us to go further / elsewhere?
Of course you are correct. I’m being a cranky old bastard :-)

I wonder if Mozart would get bogged down in all the options! I mean, he was a child prodigy that wrote for entire orchestras on staff paper and was extremely prolific. I learned how to do notation when doing my associates (performance percussion) and it’s a serious PITA....takes forever, and notation programs often wreak havoc with MIDI parts, giving them odd timing and staff-location issues unless you really tailor the parts for notation.

MIDI can also mess with “transposition instruments” such as the Bb trumpet. Normally you’d write in concert pitch for these, but some sample libraries (that I’ve used, I’m certainly no expert!) are created so that the instrument plays in its natural key. So, the trumpet written for a middle c should play back a Bb with the player transposing to C in real-time. I’ve had the built-in notation of Nuendo get this wrong and play back improperly, sounding the Bb. Other libraries have the samples correct, (Orkester gets this correct). Another example is the double bass. By convention, this is written one octave higher than the player will sound, but you’ll get the higher octave in some software (I believe Orkester gets THIS wrong)....Reason Strings is accurate in this, I think.

Anyway, just a rant, and you’re correct to call me out on being an anorak!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

20 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
20 Jun 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.
Sad to do this to you, but it actually gets worse:



:D

He didn't show yet another trick, that you can change the chords up top and the AUDIO file will also be re-pitched accordingly.
This is similar to Ableton Live’s audio-to-MIDI feature I think. It’s been a long time since I’ve switched to solely Reason based, but if I remember correctly this can be done there as well. What it DOESNT do for you is create interesting harmony, bass, or additional chord parts. Having the key information still means you’ll have to work out how to make an (in this example) bass track that doesn’t follow the tonic.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
normen wrote:
20 Jun 2018


I don't know, I think it all pretty much stayed the same. Those that want to dive deep do so and those that want to stay on the surface do that. I mean it's a bit like in "Bill & Ted" - imagine what Mozart would do with a laptop these days :) Or the other way around - is it cheating to put frets on stringed instruments? Doesn't it just allow us to go further / elsewhere?
Of course you are correct. I’m being a cranky old bastard :-)

I wonder if Mozart would get bogged down in all the options! I mean, he was a child prodigy that wrote for entire orchestras on staff paper and was extremely prolific. I learned how to do notation when doing my associates (performance percussion) and it’s a serious PITA....takes forever, and notation programs often wreak havoc with MIDI parts, giving them odd timing and staff-location issues unless you really tailor the parts for notation.

MIDI can also mess with “transposition instruments” such as the Bb trumpet. Normally you’d write in concert pitch for these, but some sample libraries (that I’ve used, I’m certainly no expert!) are created so that the instrument plays in its natural key. So, the trumpet written for a middle c should play back a Bb with the player transposing to C in real-time. I’ve had the built-in notation of Nuendo get this wrong and play back improperly, sounding the Bb. Other libraries have the samples correct, (Orkester gets this correct). Another example is the double bass. By convention, this is written one octave higher than the player will sound, but you’ll get the higher octave in some software (I believe Orkester gets THIS wrong)....Reason Strings is accurate in this, I think.

Anyway, just a rant, and you’re correct to call me out on being an anorak!
Yeah, by now most orchestra sheets are simply always written in C - they don't even want to deal with their crap themselves ;)

antic604

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
This is similar to Ableton Live’s audio-to-MIDI feature I think. It’s been a long time since I’ve switched to solely Reason based, but if I remember correctly this can be done there as well. What it DOESNT do for you is create interesting harmony, bass, or additional chord parts. Having the key information still means you’ll have to work out how to make an (in this example) bass track that doesn’t follow the tonic.
Similar - yes, but much more advanced. Live would only get the audio (drums, monophonic melody or chords) and convert it to MIDI. Here, you can detect the chords in audio file, then use those chords to alter other tracks to match that audio key & scale and lastly you can change the chords, which will apply to both the source audio and to 'implied' progressions on other tracks. For people not knowing what they're doing - in terms of musical theory, like myself :oops: - but having a keen ear for what sounds good, this is a blessing!

User avatar
teddymcw
Posts: 432
Joined: 13 May 2016

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
20 Jun 2018
I checked out the product video. It’s amazing how much lower the bar to music production has become even over the last 5 years. Instead of needing products that slow down CDs or MP3s for a guitarist to learn new riffs, we’ve got software that actually analyses entire mixed songs and tells you the key and scale! For the short term, these are good resources for you.

However (and you KNEW there had to be one, right?)

In the long-term you will be far far better served by mastering musical theory and practice. You’ll be able to put your ideas down just as fast as you can dream them up, and creating complex, building harmonic structures no longer becomes something you need to do by ear in the MIDI piano roll.

If you ever want to play with a band, and the leader shouts out “key of G” you’re going to want to be able to identify that the song is G Dorian PDQ if you want to look competent.

Last, but not least....I want you to have to put the same work that I did so I don’t feel as if everyone younger than I am gets to somehow “cheat the system” :-)

I hear you totally! Thank you for your insight and inputs.

I'd be concerned about the evolution of a new music maker learning the right way with the right work so as not to limit their experimentalism and ultimately the expression of themselves and others.

My case is that I've been completely self and shape taught for about 20 years now and have trouble knowing what intervals or shapes or coinciding to what. Ya I know all my frets and Maj, and min, 7 chords and so much more, but there are still complex chords I'm playing that are difficult to identify and thus harmonize back with Reason's instruments or perhaps I can't write a bridge to the weird shapes I just concocted on my geetahr.

This has limited my expression a bit, and my lopsided theory / instrumentalism / songwriting ratio (I've written many, many songs in many ways) has lead me to looking to a tech tool to fill in my particular gaps. Not to auto-write me a top 40 Bieber song, though there's not too much wrong with that :)


normen wrote:
20 Jun 2018
I don't know, I think it all pretty much stayed the same. Those that want to dive deep do so and those that want to stay on the surface do that. I mean it's a bit like in "Bill & Ted" - imagine what Mozart would do with a laptop these days :) Or the other way around - is it cheating to put frets on stringed instruments? Doesn't it just allow us to go further / elsewhere?
Agree, there's no way any software tool, at least these days, can teach true individual musicality and expression. Anything that makes learning that ultimate goal exciting along the path of earning it is fine with me. A bit like those two people who help the curling stone into its place, which is of course initial and final the responsibility of the curler :)

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teddymcw
Posts: 432
Joined: 13 May 2016

20 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
20 Jun 2018
Try this maybe? It works pretty well (and is on -50% sale at 5.50EUR):
https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/h ... ngkey-mk2/
Cool, thank you! Hornet has some good stuff, it outdoes their marketing efforts at least :)

User avatar
reddust
Posts: 677
Joined: 07 May 2018

24 May 2019

Just in case you're still searching for some tools for this purpose and now that Reason supports VST, I can recommend you this one:

https://mixedinkey.com/studio-edition/

And there are some other alternatives that vary from price and method here:

https://www.photosounder.com/spiral/
https://www.neuratron.com/audioscore.htm <- this one is interesting for bigger instrumentation, but pretty expensive
https://www.ircamlab.com/ <-- regular price is $99, but should be on sale sometimes for $29
https://ddmf.eu/chorddetector/
https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/h ... ngkey-mk3/ <- was already mentioned here, this is a new version but it seems to have some CPU issues, I think MK2 should not have them, but I think it's no more available at their shop
https://serato.com/sample <- this one is actually a sampling tool, but can also read the keys

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boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

24 May 2019

"Mixed In Key" will only tell you the key, not the chord. Can't speak for the others.

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