Re: How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?
Posted: 17 May 2018
Fair play - those REs are good. For me ES-01 is worth adding to my collection... and will trial it... but for this month and sticking to my rules of "staying within my budget" I'm going to buy Noise Engineering's trio of Euro-rack synths as they cover an area of sound that I want more of (I've got Arturia's V-collection and the Buchla Easel V is a fun experimental device).jayhosking wrote: β17 May 2018Just off the top of my head: Selig's EQ, JP's shimmerverb, the ES-01 (pricey, I know, but some people really dig it), a bunch of the new players... I'd personally say there's plenty of quality coming into the shop.
Funny, I had an OK time with ES-01 but didn't feel it filled any vacancies for me. That JP shimmerverb, though...danc wrote: β17 May 2018Fair play - those REs are good. For me ES-01 is worth adding to my collection... and will trial it... but for this month and sticking to my rules of "staying within my budget" I'm going to buy Noise Engineering's trio of Euro-rack synths as they cover an area of sound that I want more of (I've got Arturia's V-collection and the Buchla Easel V is a fun experimental device).
I apologize then i did not know that was the case and got wrong impression from article. Thanks for clearing it up.selig wrote: β17 May 2018
Thatβs not exactly correct (answering since that link included information from me).
This made it very difficult (if not impossible in some cases) to reproduce these FX using Reason devices. You can come close for some presets, but will totally miss the mark with others.
Well said D. I apologise for the tone of my posts and that they seemed to single out one dev. If i had been sober i would have been more thoughtful. It has been productive for me as a discussion though.eusti wrote: β17 May 2018What I'm missing in threads like this is what could be described as kindness or respect... I think its ok to state if you don't like things and it might even be very helpful for the developers... Though it could help to think of these REs as any other kind of creation... Like for instance pieces of music... Just imagine someone would say these things about your music... Songs that you worked hard on and poured your soul into... Yes, in objectively it might not be the best thing since the Beatles, but most likely it's the best you thought you could do under those circumstances... And then - in my limited understanding - writing a piece of software takes a lot longer than writing a song, so there is more on the line.
Again: Yes, please share what you think and how you feel about things, that's what I assume this forum is about, but maybe be a bit more considerate.
D.
Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?RobC wrote: β18 May 2018"How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?"
People can start by asking developers, or Propellerhead Software, instead of falsely defaming companies and lessening their selling chances, scaring potential customers away - not just from specific developers, the whole Rack Extension market.
Absolutly not. IMO.
Fair point. But if companys would only release finished ( ) or bugfree ( ) software, we never would receive any software.strangers wrote: β20 May 2018This reminds me of the great divide for Waves plugins. So many of their newer releases get bashed by people claiming they're existing plugins strung together and hidden behind a new interface. I don't even bother reading any reviews for Waves plugins anymore. I'll trial whatever piques my interest. More times than not, their plugins streamline and speedup processes that usually requires several RE, VST or routing to accomplish. If a RE or VST can save me time and sound just as good, if not better, then I have no problem purchasing.
One trend I'm noticing with newer RE (not all) that I'm not a fan of is releasing with the promise of more, bigger, better, tastier features in a future updates. Updates for optimization, performance and bugs is a different story. The previous is similar to game developers releasing part of a game and stringing your wallet and time along for the ride when they get around to finishing the rest as paid DLC. The paid part usually isn't the case for RE luckily. Even with that being said, why not fully complete a project before releasing with disclaimers to cover what's missing/lacking?
The only good I get out of that is a quick and easy way to know what to skip on.
We would live in quite the fantasy world then. Like I mentioned before, I totally undestand bug and optimization updates but to release a movie and say act 2, 5, 7 and the ending will be added at a later date isn't cool. Same goes for RE's. The Prop Shop already has limited filters to make searching through the monster list of RE time consuming. Maybe better search/filter parameters would keep someone like me quiet in these instances.Loque wrote: β20 May 2018Fair point. But if companys would only release finished ( ) or bugfree ( ) software, we never would receive any software.strangers wrote: β20 May 2018This reminds me of the great divide for Waves plugins. So many of their newer releases get bashed by people claiming they're existing plugins strung together and hidden behind a new interface. I don't even bother reading any reviews for Waves plugins anymore. I'll trial whatever piques my interest. More times than not, their plugins streamline and speedup processes that usually requires several RE, VST or routing to accomplish. If a RE or VST can save me time and sound just as good, if not better, then I have no problem purchasing.
One trend I'm noticing with newer RE (not all) that I'm not a fan of is releasing with the promise of more, bigger, better, tastier features in a future updates. Updates for optimization, performance and bugs is a different story. The previous is similar to game developers releasing part of a game and stringing your wallet and time along for the ride when they get around to finishing the rest as paid DLC. The paid part usually isn't the case for RE luckily. Even with that being said, why not fully complete a project before releasing with disclaimers to cover what's missing/lacking?
The only good I get out of that is a quick and easy way to know what to skip on.
. I just slapped AMA*ON for selling me a season for full price which consists of only a few parts and not the full season. So yea, that seems to happen on other things than RE too.strangers wrote: β20 May 2018We would live in quite the fantasy world then. Like I mentioned before, I totally undestand bug and optimization updates but to release a movie and say act 2, 5, 7 and the ending will be added at a later date isn't cool. Same goes for RE's. The Prop Shop already has limited filters to make searching through the monster list of RE time consuming. Maybe better search/filter parameters would keep someone like me quiet in these instances.
When it comes to sound, only the end result matters - when it comes to us people, who can process emotions, the original work of the developer, creator, counts too.tc13 wrote: β20 May 2018Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?RobC wrote: β18 May 2018"How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?"
People can start by asking developers, or Propellerhead Software, instead of falsely defaming companies and lessening their selling chances, scaring potential customers away - not just from specific developers, the whole Rack Extension market.
If a device sounds good, or do something that works in my music making why the f--k should I care how it was produced? I have seen a lot of the same reasoning in the VST-world and stuff that has been made in SynthEdit. When people find out that is made with SynthEdit all of a sudden the sound they liked five minutes ago sounds worse and it is not worth paying for
If I pay for a work of art then I agree 100 per cent with this, but if I pay for a tool to use in my own work, the only thing that matters is that the tool is functioning as intended. If the creator of my "hammer" looked at other hammers when creating it, it is not something I care about...RobC wrote: β20 May 2018When it comes to sound, only the end result matters - when it comes to us people, who can process emotions, the original work of the developer, creator, counts too.tc13 wrote: β20 May 2018
Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?
If a device sounds good, or do something that works in my music making why the f--k should I care how it was produced? I have seen a lot of the same reasoning in the VST-world and stuff that has been made in SynthEdit. When people find out that is made with SynthEdit all of a sudden the sound they liked five minutes ago sounds worse and it is not worth paying for
Pricing the question of fairness matters. The rest is placebo.
I refuse to use any hammer that isnβt made of authentic mahogany tonewood.tc13 wrote: β20 May 2018If I pay for a work of art then I agree 100 per cent with this, but if I pay for a tool to use in my own work, the only thing that matters is that the tool is functioning as intended. If the creator of my "hammer" looked at other hammers when creating it, it is not something I care about...
Undistraction wrote: β21 May 2018Value is in the ear of the beholder. If you can't tell the difference between something made entirely with custom code and something made with IDT then either you have good ears and there is no difference (in which case it doesn't matter), or there is a difference in quality that you cannot hear (in which case the problem is with your ears).
Why on earth would you buy an RE because of its codebase instead of its sound?
When I mentioned value, I wasn't talking about the value because it's an IDT and not a synthesizer. I should have been clear. Basically, I think there may be a problem in general with value perceptions (or lack of perceptions) of IDT libraries, making it hard for some buyers to make positive purchasing decisions.
Zac wrote: β16 May 2018Especially since the latest IDT sdk seems to be blossoming lots of 'basic' fx from previously much less prolific devs and let's face it, ones whose prior REs hardly inspired much applause.
If it isnt like i suspect and certain devs have suddenly been inspired or learned new skills then I'll happily recind my suspicions.
Zac wrote: β16 May 2018Especially since the latest IDT sdk seems to be blossoming lots of 'basic' fx from previously much less prolific devs and let's face it, ones whose prior REs hardly inspired much applause.
If it isnt like i suspect and certain devs have suddenly been inspired or learned new skills then I'll happily recind my suspicions.