How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?

[Undistraction]

@avaSoft FWIW my response was just a general one and not directed specifically at you.

[selig]

I would think though that the SDK should give you an infinite number of options for the developer to develop their own sound, I think it is much deeper than just copying a Subtractor or Thor oscillator.

The RE SDK does - but we're not talking about the RE SDK here, we're talking about the IDT SDK (I assume).

The difference is (crudely) the difference between building an instrument with Kontakt vs building it with Reaktor, where IDT is a more limited version of Kontakt and RE is a less limited version of Reaktor.

This is not an exact comparison by any means, just a point of reference to anyone who knows those two environments.

[jimmyklane]

The difference is (crudely) the difference between building an instrument with Kontakt vs building it with Reaktor, where IDT is a more limited version of Kontakt and RE is a less limited version of Reaktor.

This is not an exact comparison by any means, just a point of reference to anyone who knows those two environments.

I’m actually in the process of building a custom Kontakt instrument (along with a Refill both “lite” and full) and I’ve found that you can do quite a bit with the scripting. Is Reaktor (havent used it for YEARS) really that much more complex? I was under the assumption that Reaktor was made of discrete building blocks and that you couldn’t (for example) build your own oscillator from raw code? I know this cannot be done in Kontakt, as I’ve looked into replicating certain features of the instrument (itself a sampler, the Ensoniq EPS 16+) in software rather than bloating the released instrument with more and more samples to cover all the possible bases....as an aside, I’m creating a simple website to become an RE Dev...I’m looking to create the same instrument in RE format and look forward to scratching by on 200MB...

[rcbuse]

I was under the assumption that Reaktor was made of discrete building blocks and that you couldn’t (for example) build your own oscillator from raw code?

While its not text editor based "code" in the traditional sense, Reaktor version 5 added the CORE modules. These are super low level DSP building blocks that get compiled at runtime. You can build anything with them.

[jimmyklane]

I was under the assumption that Reaktor was made of discrete building blocks and that you couldn’t (for example) build your own oscillator from raw code?

While its not text editor based "code" in the traditional sense, Reaktor version 5 added the CORE modules. These are super low level DSP building blocks that get compiled at runtime. You can build anything with them.

Interesting. So you can, for example, tie together 4 6dB/octave filter blocks with your own feedback implementation to create a custom filter implementation? Are we stuck to one “sound” or can we adjust the internal parameters of these low-level DSP blocks? I may buy Reaktor based upon what I learn here....and of course I know I can google it and learn more, but I’ve come to trust this community to make sense and be real about things.

[rcbuse]

Interesting. So you can, for example, tie together 4 6dB/octave filter blocks with your own feedback implementation to create a custom filter implementation? Are we stuck to one “sound” or can we adjust the internal parameters of these low-level DSP blocks? I may buy Reaktor based upon what I learn here....and of course I know I can google it and learn more, but I’ve come to trust this community to make sense and be real about things.

There are no limits. Listen to the man that built it.

[selig]

The difference is (crudely) the difference between building an instrument with Kontakt vs building it with Reaktor, where IDT is a more limited version of Kontakt and RE is a less limited version of Reaktor.

This is not an exact comparison by any means, just a point of reference to anyone who knows those two environments.

I’m actually in the process of building a custom Kontakt instrument (along with a Refill both “lite” and full) and I’ve found that you can do quite a bit with the scripting. Is Reaktor (havent used it for YEARS) really that much more complex? I was under the assumption that Reaktor was made of discrete building blocks and that you couldn’t (for example) build your own oscillator from raw code? I know this cannot be done in Kontakt, as I’ve looked into replicating certain features of the instrument (itself a sampler, the Ensoniq EPS 16+) in software rather than bloating the released instrument with more and more samples to cover all the possible bases....as an aside, I’m creating a simple website to become an RE Dev...I’m looking to create the same instrument in RE format and look forward to scratching by on 200MB...

Using CORE in Reaktor you can build your own ANYTHING! You have access to the raw math behind any CORE module, taking it down to the formula/math level if you want or building from scratch if you prefer.

In Kontakt you only have access to the modules provided, though they keep adding more and more over the years. It's not easy/possible to use the basic modules to build complex devices though, and that's OK because it's a sampler! For example, I couldn't build any of my RE devices in Kontakt since they are FX based and not "instruments".

In contrast, I use Reaktor to prototype my RE devices, and there's little I cannot do with Reaktor. I tend to leave out the external I/O part of a device if it's overly complex (like with the ColoringEQ), and the UI I build is only a mockup, visually speaking (you can import your own filmstrips for knobs etc, but I don't bother - my focus is on building the device to sound right, then passing it off to my coder partner to translate to C++). But it's great for getting the basic UI laid out, choosing size and type of controls and setting control ranges and resolution so you can actually work with your device in prototype form long before committing to building in C++.

For example, there's no ZDF in Kontakt, but they provide a ZDF tool kit in Reaktor (or you can code your own). There are no filters that are steeper than 4 pole in Kontakt, but it's easy to go beyond that in Reaktor. Also, audio/FX routing is limited in Kontakt, but you can do whatever you like with routing logic, switches, splitters, mergers, and so much more in Reaktor. In short, you can build highly complex and custom devices in Reaktor, with little limitations besides CPU.

Reaktor really is a versatile and nearly open-ended environment, and Kontakt is more an advanced sample based instrument builder. I also prefer the object oriented environment in Reaktor over scripting, but I'm more a visual guy in general so this is no surprise.

[selig]

While its not text editor based "code" in the traditional sense, Reaktor version 5 added the CORE modules. These are super low level DSP building blocks that get compiled at runtime. You can build anything with them.

Interesting. So you can, for example, tie together 4 6dB/octave filter blocks with your own feedback implementation to create a custom filter implementation? Are we stuck to one “sound” or can we adjust the internal parameters of these low-level DSP blocks? I may buy Reaktor based upon what I learn here....and of course I know I can google it and learn more, but I’ve come to trust this community to make sense and be real about things.

You can go far beyond that - you can build your own 6 dB/Oct filter blocks if you prefer!
I used an intricate combination of many 1 and 2 pole filters to design my "Vari-Slope" feature in Reaktor, using lots of additional complex control systems to smooth things out and get it to work as expected. I also use FuzzMeasure to test the response of the filters to make absolutely sure I'm getting what I want.

[selig]

Interesting. So you can, for example, tie together 4 6dB/octave filter blocks with your own feedback implementation to create a custom filter implementation? Are we stuck to one “sound” or can we adjust the internal parameters of these low-level DSP blocks? I may buy Reaktor based upon what I learn here....and of course I know I can google it and learn more, but I’ve come to trust this community to make sense and be real about things.

There are no limits. Listen to the man that built it.

Oh how cool - this is the ZDF toolkit I mentioned previously!

The other wonderful thing about Reaktor is the shear amount of online support/tutorials etc. available for it.

Contact me offline if you want more information that may be covered by NDA (assuming you're already registered).