Players - a way to have Live's Clip Launcher?

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artotaku
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Location: Munich, Germany

Post 04 Oct 2018

jam-s wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Isn't JammeR pretty much the Rex-Loop trigger part of the deal?
Yes, I referred to this RE in one of my previous posts. It´s a good start but lacks some features and Remote support I would like to see.
  • extend number of tracks ("Decks") to 8. All matrix pad styled controllers I know have 8 columns. Why is it limitied to 6? I´m aware of chaining decks but how should two devices be mapped to one MIDI controller. You can only map/lock to a device.
  • For a complete liveset you would need more than 8 scenes so you end up chaining multiple JammeR. So how do you switch these devices on your MIDI controller? One solution would be to create a MIDI track for each and skip through these the MIDI track when changing songs. I would find it more efficient to add multiple pages of scenes to one device so I could control a liveset from one device only.
  • there should be a remoteable item for No Action (or a further value in Scene<1-8> Deck X Loop remote items) to indicate on the MIDI controller that a clip/slot is not "filled" Could be that this is already possible. Cannot test since my demo expired.
  • allow assigning different colors to a clip/scene/track. This setting should be remotable so the pad colors of the MIDI controller can be controlled.
  • ... theres more stuff but the upper ones are most important for me.
Last edited by artotaku on 06 Oct 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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artotaku
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Post 06 Oct 2018

Removed.

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selig
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Post 06 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
A proper phrase player would open up a sequencer view for editing notes and audio, also allowing drag/drop and copy/paste. This is something any similar solution will be limited by, and another of the "deal breakers" for me personally, as I'm always needing to edit a few notes or drum beats up to the end of production. Anyone got a solution to that issue?
Again, perhaps this is not your own workflow, but most people I know "pencil in" the MIDI data in piano roll and draw automations, so - really - using something like Panda's Kompulsion to build a pattern of MIDI & CVs is far from "tedious". And maybe it would be possible to somehow import MIDI and automation data from a clip? True, using sampler might be more restrictive that working with audio directly, but you'd still be able to record and edit the audio on the audio track, but then bounce it to sample and import to NNXT - or any other sampler - once you're happy.

I was also assuming that Reason would be able to "record" the performance (launching of clips & scenes, tweaking the parameters with their MIDI controllers, etc.) to the Sequencer, as a stream of clips or patterns - like it is now for Matrix, ReDrum, etc. Many people using Live or Bitwig work exactly this way: they create a rough sketch of the song maintaining this "live performance" feel and then fine-tune and add the details, breaks, more elaborate transitions on the timeline, in more traditional fashion.

So yeah, we can either wait for Props until something complete & ideal can be implemented, or have a solution that's 80% there but is ready for the market.

Hope someone really picks this idea up and I wasn't joking offering participation in funding the development :)
When I've had to draw in sustain pedals for a long piano or pad performance, it takes time to get them placed correct and is no fun. Drawing in notes is different, it's like how an analog sequencer is programmed and is typically only a bar or two anyway. Drawing in natural sounding pitch bend is also a little tedious and time consuming, if only because it could be "played" in one quick "take" if that was an option. In other words, we are talking about two different things, drawing performance data because it can't be recorded, vs drawing in patterns.

And no, REs and Players cannot record all performance data - that's my point. Only the main sequencer can do this which is why it's the best candidate for a clip system IMO (and it's over 50% in place with Blocks).

That is to say, I cannot record multiple piano "clips" with sustain pedal, or a bass or lead line with pitch bend/mod wheel, and then launch them from a master UI.

Ideally you would either record directly into clips/blocks, or copy from the main timeline to create clips/blocks, or drag existing MIDI or audio files directly into a clip/block - all things impossible to do with either REs or Players using current SDK. Then you would double-click the clip to edit, or make copies to create variations etc., which is also not possible to do unless you skip the first part I mentioned above and draw in a simple series of notes or CV on a grid.

To be clear, the clip "launcher" part is easy and supported by the current SDK. It's the "clip" itself that is the tricky part, unless all you want is a matrix style clip device.
Selig Audio, LLC

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antic604
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Post 06 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
06 Oct 2018
When I've had to draw in sustain pedals for a long piano or pad performance, it takes time to get them placed correct and is no fun.
Again, that's the core of the issue :) No one (or very few) who uses this type of workflow in Live or Bitwig (or Maschine) captures elaborate real-time playing and then loops them - they either puch it in in piano roll or use a step-sequencer in Push, LaunchPad or JAM. This is meant for much "simpler" music, that's focused on developing timbers & textures, effects, processing and NOT nuanced performance.

That's why I say those things are largely irrelevant for the target user base :)

And by "recording" I meant recording the performance - launching of clips & scenes - to the main sequencer. AFAIK this works already, i.e. I can launch loops in Dr. Octo or Matrix and those changes will be recorded to a track.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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selig
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Post 06 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
06 Oct 2018
selig wrote:
06 Oct 2018
When I've had to draw in sustain pedals for a long piano or pad performance, it takes time to get them placed correct and is no fun.
Again, that's the core of the issue :) No one (or very few) who uses this type of workflow in Live or Bitwig (or Maschine) captures elaborate real-time playing and then loops them - they either puch it in in piano roll or use a step-sequencer in Push, LaunchPad or JAM. This is meant for much "simpler" music, that's focused on developing timbers & textures, effects, processing and NOT nuanced performance.

That's why I say those things are largely irrelevant for the target user base :)

And by "recording" I meant recording the performance - launching of clips & scenes - to the main sequencer. AFAIK this works already, i.e. I can launch loops in Dr. Octo or Matrix and those changes will be recorded to a track.
OK, makes sense - but there is still the lack of ability to drag drop like you can in Live, and you can't punch in with the piano roll either, and of course audio (without using a sampler).
Selig Audio, LLC

serano
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Post 06 Dec 2018

it does't work for me. I just opened live and tried to do the quick keys, when I'm viewing the clips the CTRL + R combo brings up the render to disk option.

And CTRL + E brings up the remove clip stop option.

Does anyone know why I'm not seeing the same results? I have Live 4 and the manual that came with live says that it should be possible to change the clip name as well. Anyone have any ideas why it's not working for me?

Thanks
Bri ...

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antic604
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 06 Dec 2018

serano wrote:
06 Dec 2018
it does't work for me. I just opened live and tried to do the quick keys, when I'm viewing the clips the CTRL + R combo brings up the render to disk option.

And CTRL + E brings up the remove clip stop option.

Does anyone know why I'm not seeing the same results? I have Live 4 and the manual that came with live says that it should be possible to change the clip name as well. Anyone have any ideas why it's not working for me?

Thanks
Bri ...
Maybe try some Ableton forum or FB group? This topic is about something completely different :)

Also, you're incredibly vague - what doesn't work for you? what result you're expecting to get?
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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Re8et
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Why am I seeing this only now??There has been an update to 2.0
https://shop.propellerheads.com/rack-ex ... er-module/

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antic604
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Re8et wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Why am I seeing this only now??There has been an update to 2.0
https://shop.propellerheads.com/rack-ex ... er-module/
Well, it's nothing like what this topic is about - it just launches clips within 6 connected Octorex-es. Nice, but far from optimal :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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Flavolous
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Location: ZW | GB

Post 28 Dec 2018

Re8et wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Why am I seeing this only now??There has been an update to 2.0
https://shop.propellerheads.com/rack-ex ... er-module/
Support for Machine Jam! This is a head turner as an owner of a Jam, can't remember if I used my trial already or if it was renting I got it with previously. But will be giving this RE a 2nd chance I think! Will the price go up in 2019?

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EnochLight
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Flavolous wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Will the price go up in 2019?
The regular price is $15 USD and always has been. The update for previous owners is free to 2.0 until January 31 (after that, they'll probably have to pay to update).
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 4 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live

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vondersulzburg
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Post 29 Dec 2018

What could be a in between solution is something Steinberg introduced with the old Sequel3 Sequenzer called there: "Live Pads and Chain Play Mode".

manual:
http://support.steinberg.de/downloads_s ... Manual.pdf

It is nothing else than a kind of Blocks Launcher. You have a timeline with different parts like intro, verse.... it is nothing else than a line of different Blocks arranged.
Now you can map these "parts" to buttons in a "player or in Reason can be done in a player. Each button is launching the block linked to. You can choose triggers as til "end" of block, 4bars, 3 bars, 2 bars 1bar, 1beat. If you choose "end" the block is looped automatically

Now you can launch these defined parts with the "performance pad" an play live different "blocks" with a defined trigger.

Additional you can record the performance inside the "player" and store it together with the song as default. You can edit the length of the parts inside the player. and replay them as often as you want until you are pleased with the result.

When you think every thing is as intended you can expand the playlist to a new song with all parts inside the song. No more blocks just a linear song structure in the DAW.

Now you can do the final mixing of the song.

I have no idea if there is a function inside the development kid to implement a block launch.

Just a copy of a existing solution.


Michael
MacBook Air MID 2016 256GB SSD 8GB RAM, Reason 10, Ableton Live 9 Suite, LogicProX, Cubase 9.5

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