Players - a way to have Live's Clip Launcher?

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electrofux
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Post 25 May 2018

QVprod wrote:
24 May 2018
antic604 wrote:
24 May 2018


Sure, but the individual's workflow could be influenced and shaped by the tools they use, no? If one is doing music in linear DAW - Reason, Cubase, Studio One, etc. - then obviously their workflow will not be clip launcher-based. The idea here is to give them such an option to try out, without having to go to other DAW and at the risk they'll find out that the grass is indeed greener on the other side ;) :D
Again depends on the user. I've used Ableton. Love it for launching loops or stems for a band to play along to in a live performance situation. In production, the workflow of recording to clips makes zero sense to me. But for someone else that workflow seems 'more organic' as you mentioned. In my case it had zero influence, where as in yours it gave you a preference for it. If Reason needs a clip based workflow to prevent a user from moving to Ableton and abandoning Reason, then perhaps the grass really was greener on the other side. ;) . As previously mentioned though, I'm not speaking against the creation of said REs, but I'd personally prefer the whole shebang than a subset of the functionality which would include independent time signatures and bpm.
Clip Launching is good for live use, jamming, getting creative with different arrangments and that isnt necessereily dependant on the music style. For production you will at a certain point make the transition from the clip based arrangement to a normal linear arrangement. It is not that Clip based arrangements doesnt add something to your final production, much the opposite.

Honestly i am wondering for years why Reason doesnt have a Clip Launcher given the history of pattern based stuff in Reason. It is out of my mind why they dont go that one step further.

And from a market and marketing perspective i think they are missing out alot of potential. Are there any good "live jamming with Reason" videos on youtube? A Launchpad plugged into reason even with the reotuch codec is miles away from what a launchpad can do in Ableton and people own these.

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Reasonable man
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Post 25 May 2018

i watched a couple of old (at this stage anyway) Hydlide videos on live jamming performances in Reason mainly because i wanted to try and learn to write tracks soley with live jamming in mind . The thing is there was about 2/3 racks brimming with effects combinators, insert/send effects combinators, time based combinators ( eg switching between 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 resolutions) muliple drum patterns manily loaded on to matrixs with all sorts of octave switching and remote key swithing on a keyboard controllers and pads and i just thought ....oh hell. The amount of spagetti on the back of that rack was nausiating! ... and then you need to clearly label everyting on the raack/ sequencer and mixer and on your phisical controller what all the black and white keys are doing and switching to and from. Its such a seperation from composing in the sequencer hats off to anyone here who does it. You really have to know reason inside out to attempt it correctly!

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QVprod
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Post 25 May 2018

electrofux wrote:
25 May 2018
QVprod wrote:
24 May 2018


Again depends on the user. I've used Ableton. Love it for launching loops or stems for a band to play along to in a live performance situation. In production, the workflow of recording to clips makes zero sense to me. But for someone else that workflow seems 'more organic' as you mentioned. In my case it had zero influence, where as in yours it gave you a preference for it. If Reason needs a clip based workflow to prevent a user from moving to Ableton and abandoning Reason, then perhaps the grass really was greener on the other side. ;) . As previously mentioned though, I'm not speaking against the creation of said REs, but I'd personally prefer the whole shebang than a subset of the functionality which would include independent time signatures and bpm.
Clip Launching is good for live use, jamming, getting creative with different arrangments and that isnt necessereily dependant on the music style. For production you will at a certain point make the transition from the clip based arrangement to a normal linear arrangement. It is not that Clip based arrangements doesnt add something to your final production, much the opposite.
We're in agreement here. As I said most music is loop based so it could indeed be used for just about anything, but the workflow of using that for production just doesn't make sense to me. That's simply an example of different strokes for different folks as opposed to what was stated earlier, that a clip based workflow was perfect for certain genres. My thing is that if we get a half baked version of it (via RE), people are gonna complain that it doesn't do it as well and simply as Live does. I'd say the success of Bitwig has a lot to do with the clip launching workflow being equal to Live's.

electrofux
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Post 25 May 2018

QVprod wrote:
25 May 2018
electrofux wrote:
25 May 2018


Clip Launching is good for live use, jamming, getting creative with different arrangments and that isnt necessereily dependant on the music style. For production you will at a certain point make the transition from the clip based arrangement to a normal linear arrangement. It is not that Clip based arrangements doesnt add something to your final production, much the opposite.
We're in agreement here. As I said most music is loop based so it could indeed be used for just about anything, but the workflow of using that for production just doesn't make sense to me. That's simply an example of different strokes for different folks as opposed to what was stated earlier, that a clip based workflow was perfect for certain genres. My thing is that if we get a half baked version of it (via RE), people are gonna complain that it doesn't do it as well and simply as Live does. I'd say the success of Bitwig has a lot to do with the clip launching workflow being equal to Live's.
Thats what i kindof said in the beginning of the thread. A RE version has an overhead (cabling) and quite a few disadvantages over an integrated Clip Launcher. Nevertheless i would welcome it because Reason doesnt help users in that area so far (it would be a tool for live jamming only, not really for quick arranging). But no one should compare such a thing with Ableton Launcher.

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antic604
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Post 07 Jun 2018

QVprod wrote:
25 May 2018
My thing is that if we get a half baked version of it (via RE), people are gonna complain that it doesn't do it as well and simply as Live does.
Well, some would say that using REs is "the Reason way to do it" and that would appeal to people that use Reason BECAUSE it's different from Live, Cubase or Bitwig.
QVprod wrote:
25 May 2018
My thing is that if we get a half baked version of it (via RE), people are gonna complain that it doesn't do it as well and simply as Live does.
I'd say Bitwig is already superior to Live when it comes to its Clip Launcher:
- you have separate scenes (& launch buttons) for grouped tracks,
- you have follow actions on scenes (not just clips), which in Live you can only add via 3rd party ClipX tools,
- you can see what's inside the clip (midi notes, audio waveform) and line goes across it as it plays,
- the clips can be made taller, so you can use Bitwig with touchscreen to reliably launch them, control devices, even play instruments MPC-style or drums - all using fingers,
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Post 28 Sep 2018

antic604 wrote:
23 May 2018
Oquasec wrote:
23 May 2018
the only way you will be clip launching midi in reason is redrum, rpg-8 & matrix my dude.
Till then you need fl, live, reaper or bitwig for that.
You're wrong. Any sequencer in Reason - Matrix, Redrum, Thor, new Drum Sequencer, Korde RE, Propulsion RE, Kompulsion RE, etc. - is already launching MIDI clips (stored in their memory as patterns) either in response by manual trigger from the user or using pattern clips in sequencer. My idea is to add another option, a launcher RE that would do this - for many sequencer REs, driving many tracks: instruments & effects - in response to user pushing its buttons.

Sorry for being blunt, but how much do you know about Live / Bitwig's clip launchers? Because it seems like I'm trying to explain space exploration to indiginous tribe in Amazon jungle ;) :D
It was done already by defunct Liveset software ages ago: look at Impact module.
That should be recreated.
I guess scenes is the nearest alternative, but we are limited to single scenes, instead you could have had more than one impact at the same time triggering multiple sequences, patches, record changes.

For what I know clips in Live or Bitwig are just midi sequences and/or wav audio files looping, so no much different than triggering a Drex or a Redrum pattern, It's possible to trigger map a note to Drex just with the combinator. Clip launchers are not the same thing as clips, but willingly it's possible to overcome that, especially now that we have the taps, things has got way easier.

http://www.petertools.com/liveset/modules.asp


checkout the demo, strange but thesite isstill up
http://www.petertools.com/downloads/

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Re8et
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Post 01 Oct 2018

:P I thought about it again, Impact is not the same thing, let see if inside the Jungle there's some good stuff :P

Basically it's a RE device, or Vst, or Player, it doesn't really matter, but...

It should read midi files
It should be possible to drag and drop midi files
it should have gat/cv out on the backpanel, like... 16 channel??
it should have an infinite depth. numbers of vertical clips
it should have one or more trigger inputs to launch next clips, etc etc etc.
it should be possible to chain multiple units to have more than 16 channels

:redface: :reload:

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selig
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Post 01 Oct 2018

Re8et wrote:
28 Sep 2018
For what I know clips in Live or Bitwig are just midi sequences and/or wav audio files looping, so no much different than triggering a Drex or a Redrum pattern, It's possible to trigger map a note to Drex just with the combinator.
Must have missed this thread - there was another similar thread at some point, right?

Clips in Live/Bitwig are just MIDI sequences and/or wave files.

But that can never be done in Reason unless the Props address it directly.

When Players were first announced, another developer approached me about a concept pretty much as outlined in this thread. We took it pretty far before realizing the limitations were greater than the advantages and concluding this was something Props should address natively anyway, for the best implementation of the concept.

The limitations:
Cannot include audio (other than sampler based, which is very limited)
Cannot include MIDI beyond note/gate
Total number of phrases/clips will be limited to the number of CV outs
Total number of scenes will be limited to what the dev chooses (cannot be unlimited)
Chaining devices for more phrases would be unmanageable and frustrating (cannot keep the two in sync automatically, so it would be tedious to work with)
Cannot support even simple performance controls such pitch/mod/sustain

But I'm in the "Props should add this natively" camp because the power is just that much stronger IMO.

My original hope for Blocks was to include TWO simple additional features: a "seq to block" command to quickly take any tracks/clips and convert to a block, and a block "player" similar to the existing pattern devices which also allowed triggering while playing (assigning patterns to keys/pads for live triggering in sync).
While this is not a full featured "scene" based approach, it would have gone a LONG way towards allowing basic interaction within the existing Reason paradigm.

Still holding out hope for this, one day…
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QVprod
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Post 01 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
01 Oct 2018

When Players were first announced, another developer approached me about a concept pretty much as outlined in this thread. We took it pretty far before realizing the limitations were greater than the advantages and concluding this was something Props should address natively anyway, for the best implementation of the concept.

The limitations:
Cannot include audio (other than sampler based, which is very limited)
Cannot include MIDI beyond note/gate
Total number of phrases/clips will be limited to the number of CV outs
Total number of scenes will be limited to what the dev chooses (cannot be unlimited)
Chaining devices for more phrases would be unmanageable and frustrating (cannot keep the two in sync automatically, so it would be tedious to work with)
Cannot support even simple performance controls such pitch/mod/sustain

But I'm in the "Props should add this natively" camp because the power is just that much stronger IMO.
Exactly!

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Re8et
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Post 04 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
01 Oct 2018
Re8et wrote:
28 Sep 2018
For what I know clips in Live or Bitwig are just midi sequences and/or wav audio files looping, so no much different than triggering a Drex or a Redrum pattern, It's possible to trigger map a note to Drex just with the combinator.
was to include TWO simple additional features: a "seq to block" command to quickly take any tracks/clips and convert to a block, and a block "player" similar to the existing pattern devices which also allowed triggering while playing (assigning patterns to keys/pads for live triggering in sync).
That would be so awesome.... :roll:
Kinda remind me of the long gone Matrix Impact Mixer :( :cry:

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artotaku
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Post 04 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
01 Oct 2018
The limitations:
Cannot include audio (other than sampler based, which is very limited)
Cannot include MIDI beyond note/gate
Total number of phrases/clips will be limited to the number of CV outs
Total number of scenes will be limited to what the dev chooses (cannot be unlimited)
Chaining devices for more phrases would be unmanageable and frustrating (cannot keep the two in sync automatically, so it would be tedious to work with)
Cannot support even simple performance controls such pitch/mod/sustain

But I'm in the "Props should add this natively" camp because the power is just that much stronger IMO.
Still holding out hope for this, one day…
Since I own a few matrix pad style MIDI controllers (Launchpad, APC40 MK2) I also have made a lot of thought about how to build a device that can trigger clips and scenes like in Ableton Live.
I agree that the best solution would be a native integration into Reason like a performance mode window or similar.

But, since Reason develops in a slow pace we have to wait or may never see anything of that (I couldn´t justify to buy the full version of Ableton Live yet, just for clip launching).

Meanwhile, why not develop at least a rack extension device that could trigger other devices suited for audio loop launching (Dr. Octorex) or MIDI (Matrix, Kompulsion etc). If done right a device would allow a tight integration with a remote codec for a matrix pad style MIDI controller.
I´m aware there is the JammeR Loops Trigger Module RE which is a starting point but we can go further than that with one device.

I developed a remote codec that allows to control 8x8 Dr. Octorex (8 tracks à 64 scenes which may be sufficient to build a complete live set) and it works pretty decent. It requires some CV cabling to set it up, though. The user experience could be improved drastically if there had been a specific rack extension. E. g. remotable items to indicate that a clip is disabled or empty; remotable items to control the pad color of a scene, track, clip on the MIDI controller, clip run modes (repeat, only once, etc).

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antic604
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Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Meanwhile, why not develop at least a rack extension device that could trigger other devices suited for audio loop launching (Dr. Octorex) or MIDI (Matrix, Kompulsion etc). If done right a device would allow a tight integration with a remote codec for a matrix pad style MIDI controller.
That's the whole point of this thread - check first 2 posts...

But apparently this is technically not possible, at least with current API :(
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artotaku
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Post 04 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Meanwhile, why not develop at least a rack extension device that could trigger other devices suited for audio loop launching (Dr. Octorex) or MIDI (Matrix, Kompulsion etc). If done right a device would allow a tight integration with a remote codec for a matrix pad style MIDI controller.
That's the whole point of this thread - check first 2 posts...

But apparently this is technically not possible, at least with current API :(
Yes, I´m aware of that. My post was related to a device that triggers other devices which is totally doable by CV or note data. Of course if the device should be able to record or host the MIDI or audio data itself it is not possible or in a very limited way.
But even with a trigger only RE/player I would see an improvement in user experience.

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antic604
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Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
My post was related to a device that triggers other devices which is totally doable by CV or note data.
I agree. I have a feeling that Selig (and maybe other devs) that considered it wanted to have a much more comprehensive solution, incl. audio recording, live looping, etc. But really, just having one RE orchestrating playback of MIDI & CV sequences by instruments & effect chains in several tracks (even if number of tracks and scenes was arbitrarily limited) could be awesome. What we need is a RE that triggers & synchronises MIDI & CV patterns sent by other REs like Matrix, Kompulsion, ABL3, Drum Sequencer, etc.

But I can't tell if and what are the technical limitations of the API in this regard :(
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artotaku
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Post 04 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
My post was related to a device that triggers other devices which is totally doable by CV or note data.
I agree. I have a feeling that Selig (and maybe other devs) that considered it wanted to have a much more comprehensive solution, incl. audio recording, live looping, etc. But really, just having one RE orchestrating playback of MIDI & CV sequences by instruments & effect chains in several tracks (even if number of tracks and scenes was arbitrarily limited) could be awesome. What we need is a RE that triggers & synchronises MIDI & CV patterns sent by other REs like Matrix, Kompulsion, ABL3, Drum Sequencer, etc.

But I can't tell if and what are the technical limitations of the API in this regard :(
Excactly. It´s a workaround but still an improvement if there is a dedicated device to interact with the remote codec. At the end the question is if it is worthwhile for a developer to invest time and money in a device that has limitations where people may moan about. Are there enough people interested in such a device?

Just to give some more inspiration to this thread: This is what I came up with my custom remote codec for the APC40 MK2 and using Reason stock devices and some REs.
It consists of 8 combinators. Each combinator contains 8 Dr. Octorex devices. A combinator represents a song (or 8 tracks à 8 scenes). The remote codec interacts with the Hamu Modpanel to start and stop audio loops on all combinators.
On the APC40 I can switch through "song pages" and launch individual clips quite similar the Ableton Live way (so it is mutually exclusive, a started clip on a track on one song page mutes all other clips in other song pages).

Now, it would be cool to have a RE that replaces the Hamu Modpanel and would offer some clip specific features I could use in the remote codec.



The APC40 MK2 on song page 1
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antic604
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Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
This is what I came up with my custom remote codec for the APC40 MK2 and using Reason stock devices and some REs...
That's awesome, but my idea was codec-independent (or controller-independent). There would simply be a RE with a grid of buttons like Push or Launch Pad (say 8x8, 12x12 or even 16x16) and each column would represent a track with sound source (synth, drum machine, sample player, chain of effects, mixer channel - all like it is now) and each button would trigger a MIDI & CV pattern (an equivalent of MIDI & automation clip in Sequencer) that would drive the devices corresponding to that track.

Obviously, you could click the grid with a mouse, touch on a touch screen, assign to buttons/keys on your controller.

My understanding of the technical issue is, that while the Sequencer can send pattern triggers to Matrix, Kompulsion, Drum Sequencer, etc. the REs can't. In other words, one RE cannot tell to the other RE "now start playing pattern #n" :(
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selig
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Post 04 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
My post was related to a device that triggers other devices which is totally doable by CV or note data.
I agree. I have a feeling that Selig (and maybe other devs) that considered it wanted to have a much more comprehensive solution, incl. audio recording, live looping, etc. But really, just having one RE orchestrating playback of MIDI & CV sequences by instruments & effect chains in several tracks (even if number of tracks and scenes was arbitrarily limited) could be awesome. What we need is a RE that triggers & synchronises MIDI & CV patterns sent by other REs like Matrix, Kompulsion, ABL3, Drum Sequencer, etc.

But I can't tell if and what are the technical limitations of the API in this regard :(
The limitations, as far as I have been able to tell, are more on the "Clip" end than the "Launcher" end.
It would be easy to build a launcher/arranger RE, and use CV values to trigger players:
Screen Shot 2018-10-04 at 10.37.34 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-04 at 10.37.40 AM.png
And you can easily build a Player that can record (from a keyboard or load in from the sequencer) a series of notes, and have more than one stored "phrase".
Screen Shot 2018-10-04 at 10.37.58 AM.png
And it's also pretty easy to figure out how they would all connect together:
Screen Shot 2018-10-04 at 10.38.07 AM.png
But you are still left with many limitations, such as each phrase only supporting notes (no sustain pedal, no pitch bend, no audio), and the need to wire up each player to the correct CV connection (but you can at least get the player to display which "part" it's connected to), and a few other issues I'm forgetting at the moment.

Still, it seems like a lot of work for a little payoff IMO. That being said, if there's a developer that wants to take on this project, I'd be happy to share what I've come up with so far if anyone would find that to be helpful.
:)
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artotaku
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Post 04 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
That's awesome, but my idea was codec-independent (or controller-independent). There would simply be a RE with a grid of buttons like Push or Launch Pad (say 8x8, 12x12 or even 16x16) and each column would represent a track with sound source (synth, drum machine, sample player, chain of effects, mixer channel - all like it is now) and each button would trigger a MIDI & CV pattern (an equivalent of MIDI & automation clip in Sequencer) that would drive the devices corresponding to that track.

Obviously, you could click the grid with a mouse, touch on a touch screen, assign to buttons/keys on your controller.

My understanding of the technical issue is, that while the Sequencer can send pattern triggers to Matrix, Kompulsion, Drum Sequencer, etc. the REs can't. In other words, one RE cannot tell to the other RE "now start playing pattern #n" :(
That´s actually how I would imagine the RE could work. Actually, the logic I have put into the codec should be in the RE. There would be different remote codecs for different MIDI controllers that map the remote items of the RE to any matrix LED pad style controller.

A RE can send triggers or pattern changes as CV gate to other devices. If it is a player RE it can additionally send MIDI notes to change a pattern by note value. So there is a way a RE can trigger another RE. Any RE or Reason stock device that has patterns and allows to receive MIDI notes or CV input can be triggered to change the pattern. Either directly or by combinator programmer. For a live setup you would have to use multiple combinators or do some chaining.

That´s how do it in the above example. I´m sending CV/Gate to a CV Tap player that produces MIDI notes fed into the attached combinator. It works because Octorex accepts MIDI notes to change the running slot.

So far I´ve read about the following solutions
1. Natively integrated clip launcher (performance mode window or an extension to Blocks)
2. A RE that hosts all MIDI and audio clips with a clip matrix GUI (possible but very limited and maybe very elaborate to implement)
3. A RE that just triggers pattern changes on other pattern based audio or seqencer devices in a quantized way (possible, limited but not that much elaborate).
4. ...?

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antic604
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Post 04 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
The limitations, as far as I have been able to tell, are more on the "Clip" end than the "Launcher" end.
Great! It seems like you indeed got pretty far with the prototype :o
selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
But you are still left with many limitations, such as each phrase only supporting notes (no sustain pedal, no pitch bend, no audio), and the need to wire up each player to the correct CV connection (but you can at least get the player to display which "part" it's connected to), and a few other issues I'm forgetting at the moment.
Well, you see there's whole segment of market built around launching simple musical clips and I don't think this missing the sustain or pitch mod (that could BTW be replaced with CV control signal coming out of your Phraser, just like Matrix send MIDI and CV) or audio (which could be recorded into NNXT or other sampler and triggered with MIDI) would be a deal breaker.

Wiring this could be cumbersome, true. But one could make a simple template with one "orchestrator" track housing the Arranger RE and 10 empty MIDI tracks housing Combinators with Phrasers attached to them. You'd only then need to put your instruments & FX into the Combi, connect Phrasers' CV outs to instrument(s) or effect(s), but that's something we do anyway.

Seeing as how 90% of Reason music posted on FB is hiphop / trap & different genres of techno, I'd say the market for this would be HUGE.
Last edited by antic604 on 04 Oct 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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artotaku
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Post 04 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Still, it seems like a lot of work for a little payoff IMO. That being said, if there's a developer that wants to take on this project, I'd be happy to share what I've come up with so far if anyone would find that to be helpful.
:)
Great stuff, when will it be in the shop? :D

Well, the payoff or advantage at least for me would be not so much that I could control it from within Reason but from a matrix pad MIDI controller if the RE offers a good set of remotable items which can be reflected on the MIDI controller.

So to make the device more attractive the developer would have to offer a remote codec for some of the prominent controllers like Launchpad, APC40 etc. The codec could be outsourced to the community (there are some Remote developers out here, myself included).

But yes, it´s hard to say how many users would be interested in such a device so it pays off.

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Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
3. A RE that just triggers pattern changes on other pattern based audio or seqencer devices in a quantized way (possible, limited but not that much elaborate).
This (where pattern = MIDI + CV) was exactly my idea for this thread and reading your & Selig's posts I really don't see why someone wouldn't be able to do it.
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Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
So far I´ve read about the following solutions
1. Natively integrated clip launcher (performance mode window or an extension to Blocks)
2. A RE that hosts all MIDI and audio clips with a clip matrix GUI (possible but very limited and maybe very elaborate to implement)
3. A RE that just triggers pattern changes on other pattern based audio or seqencer devices in a quantized way (possible, limited but not that much elaborate).
4. ...?
The solution I presented is "4": an RE that triggers multiple Players. (similar to your #3, but more specific as to the use of a specific Player device designed for this application).

Besides organizing scenes, the biggest job of the RE part is to time everything precisely.

The key with the RE is to send the triggers at the precise time so that they Players will play in sync in all cases. You can't just play a MIDI note into the Player, or you'll trigger the phrase out of time in most cases.
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Post 04 Oct 2018

antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018

Well, you see there's whole segment of market built around launching simple musical clips and I don't think this missing the sustain or pitch mod (that could BTW be replaced with CV control signal coming out of your Phraser, just like Matrix send MIDI and CV) or audio (which could be recorded into NNXT or other sampler and triggered with MIDI) would be a deal breaker.

Players can't receive and pass data other than notes, so adding sustain or other performance controls would have to be done some other way, with requires a bigger interface and tedious manual data entry. Or don't use a Player and give up polyphony for any device not supporting PolyCV (which is most of them).

As for Audio, you loose the ability to create a tight integrated system, and have to rely instead on legacy devices (for compatibility) and the process of sampling audio into a sampler and trimming it just right so it plays perfectly in sync. Not to mention every other limitation of playing audio with a sampler that we've known for years if you're a long time Reason user. ;)
antic604 wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Wiring this could be cumbersome, true. But one could make a simple template with one "orchestrator" track housing the Arranger RE and 10 empty MIDI tracks housing Combinators with Phrasers attached to them. You'd only then need to put your instruments & FX into the Combi, connect Phrasers' CV outs to instrument(s) or effect(s), but that's something we do anyway.

Seeing as how 90% of Reason music posted on FB is hiphop / trap & different genres of techno, I'd say the market for this would be HUGE.
The wiring is simple, but many folks don't like to flip the rack and deal with that stuff. A template goes a ways towards making that simpler.

One other major limitation I forgot to mention with my approach is that once the notes are in the "Phrazers" you can no longer edit them. A proper phrase player would open up a sequencer view for editing notes and audio, also allowing drag/drop and copy/paste. This is something any similar solution will be limited by, and another of the "deal breakers" for me personally, as I'm always needing to edit a few notes or drum beats up to the end of production. Anyone got a solution to that issue?
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antic604
Posts: 1422
Joined: 23 Oct 2017
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 04 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Players can't receive and pass data other than notes, so adding sustain or other performance controls would have to be done some other way, with requires a bigger interface and tedious manual data entry. Or don't use a Player and give up polyphony for any device not supporting PolyCV (which is most of them).
selig wrote:
04 Oct 2018
A proper phrase player would open up a sequencer view for editing notes and audio, also allowing drag/drop and copy/paste. This is something any similar solution will be limited by, and another of the "deal breakers" for me personally, as I'm always needing to edit a few notes or drum beats up to the end of production. Anyone got a solution to that issue?
Again, perhaps this is not your own workflow, but most people I know "pencil in" the MIDI data in piano roll and draw automations, so - really - using something like Panda's Kompulsion to build a pattern of MIDI & CVs is far from "tedious". And maybe it would be possible to somehow import MIDI and automation data from a clip? True, using sampler might be more restrictive that working with audio directly, but you'd still be able to record and edit the audio on the audio track, but then bounce it to sample and import to NNXT - or any other sampler - once you're happy.

I was also assuming that Reason would be able to "record" the performance (launching of clips & scenes, tweaking the parameters with their MIDI controllers, etc.) to the Sequencer, as a stream of clips or patterns - like it is now for Matrix, ReDrum, etc. Many people using Live or Bitwig work exactly this way: they create a rough sketch of the song maintaining this "live performance" feel and then fine-tune and add the details, breaks, more elaborate transitions on the timeline, in more traditional fashion.

So yeah, we can either wait for Props until something complete & ideal can be implemented, or have a solution that's 80% there but is ready for the market.

Hope someone really picks this idea up and I wasn't joking offering participation in funding the development :)
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
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jam-s
Posts: 474
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 04 Oct 2018

artotaku wrote:
04 Oct 2018
Now, it would be cool to have a RE that replaces the Hamu Modpanel and would offer some clip specific features I could use in the remote codec.
Isn't JammeR pretty much the Rex-Loop trigger part of the deal?

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