Does anyone else think Radical Keys is...kinda bad

[parma]

Radical Keys sounds pretty bad to my ears when compared with other virtual Rhodes (and the real thing from memory). It sounds muffled and tinny at the same time. Playing with the "Character" knob doesn't help as all that seems to do is muffle it even further or make it absolutely nasty brittle. Something about the attack is off and it has very little of the bell-like clean tone that you would get from a Rhodes. Attack is non-existent unless you crank the Key Down noise in "Mechanics". I did a quick comparison between Radical Keys and Soniccouture's Canterbury Suitcase and the difference is...something. Each repeats a dumb phrase for a few bars. I'm not gonna bother to tell you which is which. Both were initialized with no FX/EQ, no trem, etc. and set to the LINE output (that's why I choose the Soniccouture Rhodes because like Rad Keys you can mix Line, Mic, and Room sounds). The *only* setting that is different between them is that I turned up the Key Down Mechanics on Rad Keys because the default setting sounds so wrong (i.e. attack is non-existent). At least with it cranked it gives it *some* sort of attack.

And this doesn't even get into playability or feel. One "feels" like you're playing the something approaching the real thing. The other feels like Radical Keys.

Radical Keys is a few years old now. I really hope they revisit it and tweak it. I know there are all sorts of variables in individual Rhodes/outboard/console/whatever that can lead to these two virtual instruments sounding so different but to me it is night and day especially with clean sounds.

[Runner2x]

It depends on the context I guess. I've managed to get some decent mileage out of it to meet the needs of my music. I like to use it sometimes for quick chord stabs rather than playing it like an instrument if that makes sense. I wouldn't use it for instrumental playing though to be honest because I feel there are indeed better options out there.

[mtbh]

Radical Keys doesn't do the "bell" Rhoedes sound very well. I puzzled by why they didn't think that sound was "radical" enough. But hey! you can use VSTs now, so there are so many great alternatives. I installed my ancient copy of NI Akoustik and Elektrik Piano (both discontinued now). Both smokes Radical keys and piano, IMO.

But surely, there must be someone who loves the "attitude" knob. Somewhere.

[miscend]

Reason Epianos refill is really good

[QVprod]

Not the greatest, but usable within some contexts. I often use Neo Soul Keys for rhodes, and of recent sometimes lounge lizard, but I'll sometimes start off with Radical Keys. Sometimes it stays. Made this with it some years back.

[esselfortium]

It works well enough that I haven't yet felt a need to invest in another electromechanical keyboards library. The customization is nice and it's generally not too hard to dial in a sound I like with it.

[jimmyklane]

Reason Epianos refill is really good

Reason Pianos is very old....I bought the refill (and Reason Drums) but to my ears they still stand up today. They got the very best out of those instruments.

In addition, Radical Keys is physical modeling as opposed to sample-based, so it’s bound to fall down when it comes to totally realistic reproductions.

As to the OP’s A/B comparison, the second sample had a very muffled response with a distinct 200-400Hz “boxy” feeling to it that I’d need to EQ out before it could sit in a mix without making it muddy. That said, I tended to like the less strident high end for something like solo work. So, take out a little low-mids and play as a keys+vocal song and you could have a very nice sound to the track!

[sublunar]

Well damn. Radical Keys was on my definite buy list this May Madness, assuming it went on sale. I really don't want to use VSTs unless I have to and I do have Arturia but I'm trying to avoid it. VST is a dirty word. Dirty dirty word.

Is Radical Keys really that bad? I suppose I can try it out and compare..

[Soundcells]

I like and use Radical Keys. But I have to say that the Rhodes itself isn't a pleasure to me. I mostly use a setting with the Pianet in combination with the Wurlitzer.

[QVprod]

Well damn. Radical Keys was on my definite buy list this May Madness, assuming it went on sale. I really don't want to use VSTs unless I have to and I do have Arturia but I'm trying to avoid it. VST is a dirty word. Dirty dirty word.

Is Radical Keys really that bad? I suppose I can try it out and compare..

Not bad, just not as good as VST options. If you already have the full Arturia Rhodes from V Collection then it’s probably not worth buying.

[hurricane]

Well damn. Radical Keys was on my definite buy list this May Madness, assuming it went on sale. I really don't want to use VSTs unless I have to and I do have Arturia but I'm trying to avoid it. VST is a dirty word. Dirty dirty word.

Is Radical Keys really that bad? I suppose I can try it out and compare..

First of all, there is no reason not to get Radical Keys if you want to, it's useable - HOWEVER if keys are your thing, then you need to try the other options (VST) out as well. If you try Radical Keys while in the Propellerhead bubble, and not try out anything else, then it's going to sound great to you. You need a high quality reference to compare it to. Unless you're ok with just "okay". Which is what Radical Keys is. And having various VST options myself, I definitely do not think Radical Keys is worth a purchase. There are other more inspiring, higher quality options out there, like any of the Waves EPs which can be currently had for $30 at everyplugin.com with discount code YNY23, or if you have Arturia's Stage 73 then you're search is over. If you're on Logic then even its factory EP which was released a billion years ago, is better than Radical Keys.

I personally use Keyscape for EPs.

[normen]

I find the „Radical“ instruments don‘t sound too overwhealming when played solo but in the context of a mix they‘re so very flexible and easy to embed in a mix that they easily make up for that.

[jayhosking]

I like Radical Keys well enough. Those keys from the Electromechanical refill (that I think is now bundled in Reason's factory soundbank) are also pretty alright. I like both of those more than I like the Wurlitzer clone I bought from Waves, but not as much as I like the Arturia stuff. The versatility of RK, being able to tweak the sound to places that aren't "real" but that might fit your mix better, is quite nice. I also like the ability to quickly dial in the right key velocity. Not a bad unit, overall, though I use it less now that I have the Arturia stuff.

[miscend]

There’s also AAS Lounge Lizard. Which you can get a lite version of with certain midi keyboards.

[parma]

Yeah - Radical Keys isn't unusable. Just disappointing. I think the Rhodes is definitely its weak spot. It's hard to know why the quality is lacking because it is a hybrid - it uses both sampling and modeling. I really do hope Props give it another look and improve the sound.

I'd look elsewhere if you are concerned with fidelity to the actual instrument. If you're just looking to get an electric piano-type sound then Rad Keys will suffice but I think there are certainly better options that are at or near the same price.

[sinusfiction]

Nope, I love it and use it all the time. The flexible way I can change the sound in the mix makes it very useful.

[miscend]

Reason Epianos refill is really good

Reason Pianos is very old....I bought the refill (and Reason Drums) but to my ears they still stand up today. They got the very best out of those instruments.

In addition, Radical Keys is physical modeling as opposed to sample-based, so it’s bound to fall down when it comes to totally realistic reproductions.

As to the OP’s A/B comparison, the second sample had a very muffled response with a distinct 200-400Hz “boxy” feeling to it that I’d need to EQ out before it could sit in a mix without making it muddy. That said, I tended to like the less strident high end for something like solo work. So, take out a little low-mids and play as a keys+vocal song and you could have a very nice sound to the track!

Apologies I meant Electromechanical Refill. Which I believe is now free to all users.

[esselfortium]

Reason Pianos is very old....I bought the refill (and Reason Drums) but to my ears they still stand up today. They got the very best out of those instruments.

In addition, Radical Keys is physical modeling as opposed to sample-based, so it’s bound to fall down when it comes to totally realistic reproductions.

As to the OP’s A/B comparison, the second sample had a very muffled response with a distinct 200-400Hz “boxy” feeling to it that I’d need to EQ out before it could sit in a mix without making it muddy. That said, I tended to like the less strident high end for something like solo work. So, take out a little low-mids and play as a keys+vocal song and you could have a very nice sound to the track!

Apologies I meant Electromechanical Refill. Which I believe is now free to all users.

Better yet, it's built into the factory sound bank now

[jimmyklane]

Apologies I meant Electromechanical Refill. Which I believe is now free to all users.

Better yet, it's built into the factory sound bank now

What?!!? Reason Pianos and Reason Drums is not in the factory aoundbank??? What about Reason Strings? Any joy there? As for the poster that mentioned Electromechanical, I got it for free years and years ago and have used it on major label releases! It’s fantastic what Props did with that refill.

[esselfortium]

Better yet, it's built into the factory sound bank now

What?!!? Reason Pianos and Reason Drums is not in the factory aoundbank??? What about Reason Strings? Any joy there? As for the poster that mentioned Electromechanical, I got it for free years and years ago and have used it on major label releases! It’s fantastic what Props did with that refill.

Nononoo... Electromechanical (which was always free for registered users) is in the factory bank, and RDK Vintage Mono (which was a free addon for Reason Drum Kits) is in the factory bank. None of the paid refills are in there.

[jimmyklane]

What?!!? Reason Pianos and Reason Drums is not in the factory aoundbank??? What about Reason Strings? Any joy there? As for the poster that mentioned Electromechanical, I got it for free years and years ago and have used it on major label releases! It’s fantastic what Props did with that refill.

Nononoo... Electromechanical (which was always free for registered users) is in the factory bank, and RDK Vintage Mono (which was a free addon for Reason Drum Kits) is in the factory bank. None of the paid refills are in there.

Ah, Ok. Yeah I’ve had Electromechanical and the VMK for years and years...I got the vintage kit as a free download for buying Reason Drums and I still think Reason Pianos holds up pretty well against newer libraries. With sympathetic playing, I’ve made people ask me where I recorded the piano at in a vocal/acoustic guitar/piano mix. When I tell them it’s just samples they are always surprised.

I even took the time to sample it into my Emu e5000 so that I can take it on the road without a laptop (THAT was a ton of work!)...The drum refill needs outside processing to really make it come alive, even though it’s a very well tuned and sampled set of kits.

[Catblack]

Apologies I meant Electromechanical Refill. Which I believe is now free to all users.

Better yet, it's built into the factory sound bank now

It is, but I have noted that some patch names in the old Electromechanical refill will not open in the current version of Reason. (The Hammond /- Full Bars ones.) These have been renamed in the FSB. But if you have old song files that use that refill that won't open, you'll need to open them in an old version of Reason and then resave them with blank patches, open them in your current reason version and then hunt in the FSB for the new patch names.

I guess what I'm saying is that that refill is in the FSB now, but you'll have to dig around for them, and you shouldn't use the old refill.

[taddx]

I find Radical Keys to be utter crap. Radical Piano on the contrary is pretty good.

[LudvigC]

Better yet, it's built into the factory sound bank now

It is, but I have noted that some patch names in the old Electromechanical refill will not open in the current version of Reason. (The Hammond /- Full Bars ones.) These have been renamed in the FSB. But if you have old song files that use that refill that won't open, you'll need to open them in an old version of Reason and then resave them with blank patches, open them in your current reason version and then hunt in the FSB for the new patch names.

I guess what I'm saying is that that refill is in the FSB now, but you'll have to dig around for them, and you shouldn't use the old refill.

Naaah, wait. Reason songs never contain references to *patches* - only to samples and loops. If you have an old song made with the Electromechanical Refill, it will still contain sample references to that ReFill, true. That's why it's a good idea to actually keep the old ReFill on your drive (it's only 110 MB) - then the old songs will open without hitches.

When you make a *new* song though, there's never any need to go into that ReFill, since all its patches and samples are in the Factory Sound Bank.

/ LudvigC

[madmacman]

I would appreciate if there exists a list of which (former) refills made it into the FSB - and when (Reason version). I just recently learned that the original RV7000 impulse response refill was integrated into the FSB of Reason 9.