VSTs just further validate REs?

[Psuper]

I can't imagine any long-term Reason user preferring VST over native RE (unless they think Reason is dying or like Antic stated). Just from supporting the RE devs who supported us alone its worth it.

I am a long term user (Since release of version 3) The RE can only be used in Reason. Some of us are using Ableton Live also to try and pull together live performances, so that would be a long term Reason user would want a VST.

Answer No

I agree which is why I referenced Antics post as he stated he prefers to use multiple DAWs.

[scratchnsnifff]

As time has passed since 9.5 I’ll say that certain VST instruments are pure fire. But in my own opinion the must haves are far and few. I love serum and I’ll still hope Steve Duda makes a RE equivalent someday. But I’ll always prefer rack extension, because that’s the format I know the best. I’m not trying to say that vst sucks, but I find myself using a ton of Res over vst. The only device I have in both formats is spire, and if reveal sound updates to the new sdk I’ll happily switch to using the Re more. What’s odd about respire is that it would benefit tremendously if it had the pages, and some drop down menus. All in all I find that I’m not the biggest fan of pop up windows but at least we finally get some of the crazy tech that’s out there without having to email developers lol

[dustiraw]

Yes! The only reason I would EVER purchase a VST over a RE version of the product would be to use the plug outside of Reason. With that said I have bought MANY RE versions of plugins I already own POST 9.5 VST Reason just for the tight control and benefits of RE's. Nothing Beats them

[dvdrtldg]

Yeah I dunno. I love the RE format, and I love especially the REs made by devs who really get the Reason environment - Lectric Panda, Robotic Bean etc

But there are quite a few VSTs that I wouldn't be without - Oeksound Soothe (and Spiff looks amazing too, haven't tried it yet), iZotope Trash 2 and RX restoration plugins, Waves Vitamin, Audio Thing Valve Filter... I guess for instruments I'm RE all the way, but for processing there are some VSTs that no RE has matched yet

[C//AZM]

Would be nice if you could buy a VST or an RE and you'd also have the other one too, tucked in a folder. So, if you buy a VST, in Reason there's an RE version for FREE. It's already like that in the audio world to some extent where if you buy one format, you also often get the other format whether it's VST, Audio Unit, AAX or RTAS.

[antic604]

Would be nice if you could buy a VST or an RE and you'd also have the other one too, tucked in a folder. So, if you buy a VST, in Reason there's an RE version for FREE. It's already like that in the audio world to some extent where if you buy one format, you also often get the other format whether it's VST, Audio Unit, AAX or RTAS.

+1

That'd definitely help strengthening the RE environment, because if I were to choose between two plugins and one of them offered both formats for single price, I'd definitely pick that one. But I think there's something in Props' shop licensing that prevents that. I was specifically asking kiloHearts (upon buying their The Works VST bundle) if I can get the REs too and all they could offer was some (small) discount. Same with Kuassa. The only exception is Synapse Audio with The Legend VST/RE, but I'm not sure why - maybe there's a loophole they're using? or a dedicated agreement with Props?

[theshoemaker]

The only difference really is the license management and how to install. That's why I love reason and its REs. Click > Sync > Done

No fancy setup procedure. That's it. Simple, easy and effective! Just a time and PITA safer

[Kilohearts_Per]

I was specifically asking kiloHearts (upon buying their The Works VST bundle) if I can get the REs too and all they could offer was some (small) discount.

I'm not sure what Synapse does, but I'd like to point out that we (Kilohearts) can't sell or give away REs. If I contact Propellerhead with a username and tell them that person owns the VSTs they will issue a 50% cross-grade discount voucher to him/her. Those are their terms, not ours.

[antic604]

I was specifically asking kiloHearts (upon buying their The Works VST bundle) if I can get the REs too and all they could offer was some (small) discount.

I'm not sure what Synapse does, but I'd like to point out that we (Kilohearts) can't sell or give away REs. If I contact Propellerhead with a username and tell them that person owns the VSTs they will issue a 50% cross-grade discount voucher to him/her. Those are their terms, not ours.

Yes, that's what I meant by "I think there's something in Props' shop licensing that prevents that".

However, does it work the other way around - if I had the RE, would you grant the VST license for free?

[Kilohearts_Per]

...if I had the RE, would you grant the VST license for free?

Not generally. We adopted PHs policy and charge 50% for cross-grades as well to avoid confusion. But we do occasionally run time-limited promotions where cross-grades are free.

[Zac]

I may well be in a minority here due to devs having additional costs to develop REs alongside VSTs but my opinion is that if i buy a plugin i should have access to it in all available formats.

Having said that I'd hate to see quality devs dropping the RE format.... hmm not straight forward i guess.

[jimmyklane]

I love the IDEA of RE's, and I've demoed a ton of them, however, I've recently switched over to Reason as my full-time solo DAW. Previously I was using Nuendo and VST's with Reason rewired when necessary. Therefore I have many many more VST plugins than dedicated RE's...I'm buying the RX950 if my song doesn't make it into the top 5 though....


The other consideration is that with the exception of Maschine, I am almost exclusively hardware-based and use Reason as a MIDI sequencer as well as a "tape" recorder....That said, I often resample from sampler to sampler, and sometimes the computer is in the middle hosting effects to help mangle the sample. The simple routing and modular nature of Reason makes me want more REs because of the dedicated CV...not all plugins play nice with audio-rate CV using the programmer interface, but I've yet to find an RE (maybe there are some but not those I've tried) that doesn't perform flawlessly with heavy CV modulation. In addition, Reason is more stable with REs than VSTs and it seems that they use less DSP for some reason.

SO....despite owning way more VSTs than REs I'd have to vote that I'd rather have the RE's with just a very select few VSTinstruments (uHe Repro, Maschine, and a few more)

[antic604]

...my opinion is that if i buy a plugin i should have access to it in all available formats...

Exactly my point. I don't think it's anymore expensive to develop RE version than it is to do a AU or AAX ones.

Otherwise we end up with downright misleading marketing like Kuassa's:

"In addition, the new Kratos 2 Maximizer is now extending its reach to accommodate Propellerhead Reason as well as the Avid Pro Tools users with the support for Rack Extension and AAX plug-ins."

You click "Buy" and suddenly RE isn't listed anymore with the other formats...

If the VST/VST3/AU/AAX costs $69, then just increase the price by 1/4 to $86 to cover RE license as well, instead of charging twice. Sure, some users may not care to pay for RE, but similarly I don't care for AU or AAX versions, yet I have to pay for them.

[avasopht]

Exactly my point. I don't think it's anymore expensive to develop RE version than it is to do a AU or AAX ones.

Otherwise we end up with downright misleading marketing like Kuassa's:

Not always the case.

In short, if you have any assembly code or other code that is incompatible with the RE SDK limitations (or just the configuration for building the executable), you will have to rewrite that. Uhe is an example of this. Their code used language features that aren't allowed for REs, and it can be a huge undertaking to resolve this. On top of that they also had their own custom process involved in building the executables that just does not work with the RE compilation process.

You also do have to build the UI.

For some code bases you can have it ported in under 15 minutes (just the code, not the GUI).

[antic604]

Exactly my point. I don't think it's anymore expensive to develop RE version than it is to do a AU or AAX ones.

Otherwise we end up with downright misleading marketing like Kuassa's:

Not always the case.

Oh, I'm aware that's why I proposed to increase the price proportionally for each plugin format, because I refuse to believe that making Kratos2 in VST/VST3/AU and AAX costed the same as making RE.

[tc13]

Why should I get the VST if I buy the RE, or the RE if I buy the VST?

If I buy a vinyl I don't get the CD or MP3, if I buy a DVD I don't get the Blu-ray, and most of the time I don't even get a discount if I want to have the same content in a different technology.

[Zac]

Why should I get the VST if I buy the RE, or the RE if I buy the VST?

If I buy a vinyl I don't get the CD or MP3, if I buy a DVD I don't get the Blu-ray, and most of the time I don't even get a discount if I want to have the same content in a different technology.

But would you seriously pay for vinyl, cd, download and blu-ray separately? For the same album?

No. Nobody would.

[EdGrip]

My feeling is that when you buy software, the software is compatible with various OS's or formats, and you just use the one(s) that you need. Like "compatible with VST/AU/AAX" "compatible with Windows/MacOS/Linux/Android". The RE format is unusual in this regard. Not the devs' fault - it's just annoying to have to pick a format when deciding how to spend your money.

[Zac]

My feeling is that when you buy software, the software is compatible with various OS's or formats, and you just use the one(s) that you need. Like "compatible with VST/AU/AAX" "compatible with Windows/MacOS/Linux/Android". The RE format is unusual in this regard. Not the devs' fault - it's just annoying to have to pick a format when deciding how to spend your money.

And it does come in to the argument if a dev doesnt do a buy the RE get the VST or buy the VST get the RE deal. I really prefer REs but there are examples where the vst performs better. Has better options and gui. As Reason's vst integration improves im guessing my preference for REs may come down to the beauty of the rack.

[Kilohearts_Per]

I am also of the opinion that when you buy a Kilohearts plugin you should get all formats available (even though RE development is an increased cost that is not comparable to doing other formats like AU and AAX). But the way it works now we simply can't do that. Distribution of REs are strictly through the shop.

Kilohearts specifically have another problem where we need to educate customers on the radical differences between our VST and RE offer before the purchase. Sometimes people don't get it until they spent the money and then we need to help them sort it out manually which costs us support time.

We work tightly with Propellerhead on a range of projects, and we have expressed our feelings about this to them. They understand our standpoint and I'm sure we will come up with a good solution in the future.

[Zac]

Hmmm sorry kilohearts got signalled out here. I love your REs and own them all apart from the paid toolbox plugins. I really appreciated the free ones, thanks. I feel quite awkward really. No need to explain or anything to answer to.

[antic604]

Hmmm sorry kilohearts got signalled out here.

Oh, there was no malicious intent on my part! I genuinely think they're the good guys here and - as Per said above - they'd provide a free cross-sell VST<>RE if they could... I only mentioned them knowing that they're active on the forum & hoped for some reply, which we did get I really appreciate that!

[tc13]

Why should I get the VST if I buy the RE, or the RE if I buy the VST?

If I buy a vinyl I don't get the CD or MP3, if I buy a DVD I don't get the Blu-ray, and most of the time I don't even get a discount if I want to have the same content in a different technology.

But would you seriously pay for vinyl, cd, download and blu-ray separately? For the same album?

No. Nobody would.

If I take look in my collection there are plenty of duplicates. Blade Runner on VHS/DVD and Blu-ray is only one example. If I go to my record collection there are even more, and I don't think I'm the only one that have paid more than once for the same content on a different format.

[Zac]

But would you seriously pay for vinyl, cd, download and blu-ray separately? For the same album?

No. Nobody would.

If I take look in my collection there are plenty of duplicates. Blade Runner on VHS/DVD and Blu-ray is only one example. If I go to my record collection there are even more, and I don't think I'm the only one that have paid more than once for the same content on a different format.

I have plenty of duplicates too That's mainly because certain formats were available at different times. Not the case as much with plugins IMO. But sure i appreciate your point.

[Zac]

Hmmm sorry kilohearts got signalled out here.

Oh, there was no malicious intent on my part! I genuinely think they're the good guys here and - as Per said above - they'd provide a free cross-sell VST<>RE if they could... I only mentioned them knowing that they're active on the forum & hoped for some reply, which we did get I really appreciate that!

I didn't mean to signal you out either. I'm not having the best of days it seems