Grain = My Max/MSP Dreams!
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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So, finally updated to Reason 10 today, and in just 1 minute of using Grain, the update has earned it's keep.
Before I go on, I also own Proton, Neutron, Nostromo, Fritz, Europa, Parsec, and a ton of other abstract synths, all excellent, worthy synths.
But all I've ever truly wanted, all I've ever really dreamt of Reason having... I've always wanted the functionality of the Max/MSP apps that I've messed around with to be available in Reason. NOW THEY ARE!!! In the particular format of granular synthesis that I like the most. And it's low on CPU!
I can take any short melody that I've made, as many of us probably have them, turn them into an audio file and dump it in Grain. Now, I have a full-length ambient track. Just like I could do in many of the small Max/MSP scripts/standalone apps that I download off the 'net. The difference for me is that I can control the random aspect of it much more than Max/MSP apps AND process the living hell out of them with all of the nice RE's that I have AND I can make it sound nice!
Smooth hums, stretching sounds, clicks and pops, greasy tails, all of it.
The only thing I could possibly think of adding to the Grain synthesizer is the ability to adjust sample rate and quality, for even more digital grime. I know I can add that with the multitude of RE's that I already own and I know it'll sound great! It's one of those features that I don't need, but it would be fun to have on board - I have ring-mod in the distortion area, wish I could have digital grime. It's the only wish I have for this synth; it's so small and unimportant.
EDIT: It DOES have digital grime, under the S/H setting of the distortion. S/H has always meant a sort of "random LFO" to me, but in this case, it is actually a low-fidelity setting. Well, that's that. Perfect synth for me.
Proton does some nice granular stuff, Fritz does some nice granular stuff, even Neutron is nice, but this is the "sound" I was looking for. Complain all you want about the price of this update, I'm quite content. It really provided me a tool that just amazes me to no end.
Thank you, Propellerhead!
Before I go on, I also own Proton, Neutron, Nostromo, Fritz, Europa, Parsec, and a ton of other abstract synths, all excellent, worthy synths.
But all I've ever truly wanted, all I've ever really dreamt of Reason having... I've always wanted the functionality of the Max/MSP apps that I've messed around with to be available in Reason. NOW THEY ARE!!! In the particular format of granular synthesis that I like the most. And it's low on CPU!
I can take any short melody that I've made, as many of us probably have them, turn them into an audio file and dump it in Grain. Now, I have a full-length ambient track. Just like I could do in many of the small Max/MSP scripts/standalone apps that I download off the 'net. The difference for me is that I can control the random aspect of it much more than Max/MSP apps AND process the living hell out of them with all of the nice RE's that I have AND I can make it sound nice!
Smooth hums, stretching sounds, clicks and pops, greasy tails, all of it.
The only thing I could possibly think of adding to the Grain synthesizer is the ability to adjust sample rate and quality, for even more digital grime. I know I can add that with the multitude of RE's that I already own and I know it'll sound great! It's one of those features that I don't need, but it would be fun to have on board - I have ring-mod in the distortion area, wish I could have digital grime. It's the only wish I have for this synth; it's so small and unimportant.
EDIT: It DOES have digital grime, under the S/H setting of the distortion. S/H has always meant a sort of "random LFO" to me, but in this case, it is actually a low-fidelity setting. Well, that's that. Perfect synth for me.
Proton does some nice granular stuff, Fritz does some nice granular stuff, even Neutron is nice, but this is the "sound" I was looking for. Complain all you want about the price of this update, I'm quite content. It really provided me a tool that just amazes me to no end.
Thank you, Propellerhead!
Last edited by KirkMarkarian on 28 Dec 2017, edited 1 time in total.
- jayhosking
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I'd love to hear any of these smeared out ambient tracks once you've bounced them. I've loved playing around with Grain, and love ambient music, but haven't really played with it in this way yet.
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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Here's a very short MP3 of two very basic sine wave melodic loops, both run at 50% of their normal speed - so right away there's time-stretching going on. I also placed jitter in the playback.
I then ran it through the long grain engine, setting it's knobs at about 75%, then adding an oscillator to trace the signal on one of the loops (the built-in oscillator). Some phaser/delay/reverb and there might be a small amount of ring-mod.
Two Grains, that's it. I ran it through my EQ/Limiter, but otherwise, no other effects. It's like having two very expressive Max/MSP apps!
Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myhwzrw4qtys3 ... 1.mp3?dl=0
I then ran it through the long grain engine, setting it's knobs at about 75%, then adding an oscillator to trace the signal on one of the loops (the built-in oscillator). Some phaser/delay/reverb and there might be a small amount of ring-mod.
Two Grains, that's it. I ran it through my EQ/Limiter, but otherwise, no other effects. It's like having two very expressive Max/MSP apps!
Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myhwzrw4qtys3 ... 1.mp3?dl=0
- jayhosking
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 28 Nov 2016
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Wow, that is great. Thanks also for the how-to. I'll get tinkering with this tonight.KirkMarkarian wrote: ↑27 Dec 2017Here's a very short MP3 of two very basic sine wave melodic loops, both run at 50% of their normal speed - so right away there's time-stretching going on. I also placed jitter in the playback.
I then ran it through the long grain engine, setting it's knobs at about 75%, then adding an oscillator to trace the signal on one of the loops (the built-in oscillator). Some phaser/delay/reverb and there might be a small amount of ring-mod.
Two Grains, that's it. I ran it through my EQ/Limiter, but otherwise, no other effects. It's like having two very expressive Max/MSP apps!
Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/myhwzrw4qtys3 ... 1.mp3?dl=0
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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Oh yeah, and the spectrum grain engine is equally nice, moves the sound more into the additive territory, but nothing like the Parsec synth. It's just so pretty in its own right.
Using audacity, you can make synth samples and play them like a regular sampler; with a few knob turns in the long grain engine, you'll quickly move into a combination of Malstrom/Parsec/Europa. Make a second-long sine wave at 20% volume, and dump it into Grain! Beautiful!
I can also see this as a sort of "instant vaporwave" engine, also equipped with the capability to take the track into ambient territory. Man alive!
Using audacity, you can make synth samples and play them like a regular sampler; with a few knob turns in the long grain engine, you'll quickly move into a combination of Malstrom/Parsec/Europa. Make a second-long sine wave at 20% volume, and dump it into Grain! Beautiful!
I can also see this as a sort of "instant vaporwave" engine, also equipped with the capability to take the track into ambient territory. Man alive!
Yes Grain was the only item that made me consider R10. I was even considering it even after I purchased Mangle. However Mangle is by far the better manipulator -- by a longshot in most every area that counts.
I've been using it regularly now, more configurable, more options, just does everything better than Grain, even crazy cpu efficient (especially considering the shit VST performance in Reason). I was a bit concerned with the stability issues, however I've not had a single hiccup since building my new PC.
Regardless, Grain is great - but you owe yourself a check of Mangle - tools are tools.
I've been using it regularly now, more configurable, more options, just does everything better than Grain, even crazy cpu efficient (especially considering the shit VST performance in Reason). I was a bit concerned with the stability issues, however I've not had a single hiccup since building my new PC.
Regardless, Grain is great - but you owe yourself a check of Mangle - tools are tools.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985
- jayhosking
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Right on cue
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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Yep, Mangle's great, I own it! Fantastic device, works in all sorts of ways. I use the Audio Unit version, which comes with a VST version as well. That being said, I hate VST's. I've tried several times to use them since their inception, and they've always given me issues, on both PC's and Macs. I only want to work with RE's within the Reason environment.Psuper wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017Yes Grain was the only item that made me consider R10. I was even considering it even after I purchased Mangle. However Mangle is by far the better manipulator -- by a longshot in most every area that counts.
I've been using it regularly now, more configurable, more options, just does everything better than Grain, even crazy cpu efficient (especially considering the shit VST performance in Reason). I was a bit concerned with the stability issues, however I've not had a single hiccup since building my new PC.
Regardless, Grain is great - but you owe yourself a check of Mangle - tools are tools.
Also, I had a particular sound that the Max/MSP devices/standalones provided, and Mangle didn't give me those particular sounds. Granular synthesis is broad with it's definitions and it's sounds. Grain gives me the specific sound I'm looking for. It's one of my dream synths, and it's Reason-native! I'm running a 2012 Mac Mini and I don't want to deal with a new computer or VST issues.
Glad you like Mangle, I'm happier with Grain! This is my post about Grain. Nyah!
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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HAHAHAHA Yeah, no foolin'
I've been taking random youtube videos, old nature programs, space programs, computer shows from the 80s, etc. I have a script that chops them up into 3-5 second snippits and normalizes the volume. I've been using those as source material for grain with some procedurally generated patches. I generated 1000 patches at a time and just get lost in the sound. I love grain.
1000 Grain generated patchesrcbuse wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017I've been taking random youtube videos, old nature programs, space programs, computer shows from the 80s, etc. I have a script that chops them up into 3-5 second snippits and normalizes the volume. I've been using those as source material for grain with some procedurally generated patches. I generated 1000 patches at a time and just get lost in the sound. I love grain.
This is why I like Panda, his geekyness is much appreciated and that’s why I support him in the PH shop. Thank you mr.panda can’t wait to load those patches in Grain
yeah same here,i am ready to dive into wormholeMmj85 wrote: ↑29 Dec 20171000 Grain generated patchesrcbuse wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017I've been taking random youtube videos, old nature programs, space programs, computer shows from the 80s, etc. I have a script that chops them up into 3-5 second snippits and normalizes the volume. I've been using those as source material for grain with some procedurally generated patches. I generated 1000 patches at a time and just get lost in the sound. I love grain.
This is why I like Panda, his geekyness is much appreciated and that’s why I support him in the PH shop. Thank you mr.panda can’t wait to load those patches in Grain
- Exowildebeest
- Posts: 1553
- Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Sounds awesome!rcbuse wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017I've been taking random youtube videos, old nature programs, space programs, computer shows from the 80s, etc. I have a script that chops them up into 3-5 second snippits and normalizes the volume. I've been using those as source material for grain with some procedurally generated patches. I generated 1000 patches at a time and just get lost in the sound. I love grain.
(note that Panda didn't say he's going to share the patches or script )
Btw, I was under the impression that Grain auto-normalizes imported audio, or at least compensates gain to a certain extent.
- KirkMarkarian
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- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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It does appear to do that - I do often have to adjust the gain into the amplitude env. to adjust for that. Not a huge problem - I think that Props did that intentionally so everything would sound "good" (LOUD) right away. You can also edit the sample to adjust other things - I haven't looked that closely, but maybe there's a volume adjust in there?Exowildebeest wrote: ↑29 Dec 2017
Sounds awesome!
(note that Panda didn't say he's going to share the patches or script )
Btw, I was under the impression that Grain auto-normalizes imported audio, or at least compensates gain to a certain extent.
- KirkMarkarian
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 13 Dec 2015
- Location: Tucson, AZ
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Yep, it's really that easy! No foolin. I love Grain! Here's some General MIDI music I made then put open source voices over the top: https://aphasique.bandcamp.com/releases
Yeah grain is a Reason dream come true for sure. It's why I upgraded. Only reason.
It does some crazy shit for sure but also I like the simplicity of just being able to load a sample in tape mode, pitch it down, and watch the playhead follow slower...you can see what's going on! Used to have to bounce audio out of NNXT to do that before. Bloody awesome device.
It does some crazy shit for sure but also I like the simplicity of just being able to load a sample in tape mode, pitch it down, and watch the playhead follow slower...you can see what's going on! Used to have to bounce audio out of NNXT to do that before. Bloody awesome device.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester
You can check out my music here.
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Or here.
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You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg
my favorite prop device by far
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