Any Sampler REs in the making?

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

Surprised I havent seen any yet.

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[Ahornberg]

What exactly do you expect?

[RoryM0]

I believe that the current SDK doesn't offer multi-sample features, so at the moment it just isn't possible to make one. A dev could give a better answer I'm sure though.

[QVprod]

The question would be, what do you want from a sampler RE that Grain and NNXT aren't already capable of? Auto chopping is the only thing I can think of that's not covered by those.

[Marc Swing]

Something like this would be awesome!

[chaosroyale]

Sampler features we have needed in Reason for several years:

automatable loop start and end points, and properly automatable sample start point all the way from from 0 to 100%

option to make loop start and end points auto-snap to zero crossings, even when automating (this has been a thing since the 90's, why not on Reasons samplers)

adjustable non-destructive loop crossfade length and curve <- (crossfades with NN-XT are much too long, and practically unusable)

easy way to get random seeded alternative takes on the same key for round-robins

keyboard input for values, because it shouldn't take 10 minutes of holding shift and awkwardly sliding up and down past the value you want to simply choose velocity ranges for a sample.

[EdGrip]

The NNs are very dated now. I hope sorting them out is on the to-do list. Until then, try TAL Sampler.

[sayanmix99]

Sampler features we have needed in Reason for several years:

automatable loop start and end points, and properly automatable sample start point all the way from from 0 to 100%

option to make loop start and end points auto-snap to zero crossings, even when automating (this has been a thing since the 90's, why not on Reasons samplers)

adjustable non-destructive loop crossfade length and curve <- (crossfades with NN-XT are much too long, and practically unusable)

easy way to get random seeded alternative takes on the same key for round-robins

keyboard input for values, because it shouldn't take 10 minutes of holding shift and awkwardly sliding up and down past the value you want to simply choose velocity ranges for a sample.

So true! I was looking for that since I started using Reason back in the days

[hurricane]

The question would be, what do you want from a sampler RE that Grain and NNXT aren't already capable of? Auto chopping is the only thing I can think of that's not covered by those.

The world would be shitty if only UVI workstation existed wouldn't it? OPTIONS, I want sampler OPTIONS.I'm tired of using the NNXT. Do you only have one pair of shoes?

[QVprod]

The question would be, what do you want from a sampler RE that Grain and NNXT aren't already capable of? Auto chopping is the only thing I can think of that's not covered by those.

The world would be shitty if only UVI workstation existed wouldn't it? OPTIONS, I want sampler OPTIONS.I'm tired of using the NNXT. Do you only have one pair of shoes?

UVI workstation isn't a sampler. It's a sample player similar to the IDT or Kontakt Player. Even if it was a sampler the sound wouldn't be any different. Loading samples is loading samples. Unlike synths having multiple samplers only makes sense if they provide functions that other samplers you have do not such as the differences between Kontakt (full version) and the NNXT. But seeing as a Kontakt level sampling RE is highly unlikely (hence the IDT), I believe the question is valid. What do you want in a sampler that Grain and NNXT aren't capable of?

even suggesting something like Tal Sampler might would have been acceptable (couldn't remember it at the time), but again, it has functions that the NNXT doesn't. Simply saying you want "OPTIONS" isn't actually saying much

[Ahornberg]

For me, a good sampler is as good as the libraries (no samples, no sound). And for NN-XT there's a whole lot of great stuff out there.

On the other hand if you want to sample yourself, grab what fits best for you. I took a look at UVI Falcon with its fantastic timestretch and grain capabilities. There's also Izotope Iris 2, a very unique multilayer sampler.

I did a lot of sampling in Renoise, a tracker-styled DAW. NI Maschine is also based on a sampler engine.

[RandyEspoda]

The question would be, what do you want from a sampler RE that Grain and NNXT aren't already capable of? Auto chopping is the only thing I can think of that's not covered by those.

How about automation capability for the various parameters ?
NNXT never had this.

[QVprod]

The question would be, what do you want from a sampler RE that Grain and NNXT aren't already capable of? Auto chopping is the only thing I can think of that's not covered by those.

How about automation capability for the various parameters ?
NNXT never had this.

That's fair. To clarify, my question was't a shutdown of the idea but rather to see why people would want it. Some requests such as the one you mention are workflow based and so aren't immediately obvious. My guess is (aside from sample loading) This is the reason we haven't seen any samplers yet. That in addition to the various VST options.

[EnochLight]

There is literally no reason for a new sampler in Reason at this point, IMHO. Now that Reason supports VST, we have access to Kontakt - which is far more advanced than anything Propellerhead will be able to offer (both in features as well as - most importantly - content). Just say'n...

Grain is the new Reason sampler, and it does what it does very well. I'd look to Kontakt for other options...

[chaosroyale]

Kontakt is great for libraries, but is heavy, and very slow to program when doing original sampling and designing sounds.

NN-XT is very much faster to use, but lacks many rudimentary features.

An updated NN-XXXXT with just the features I listed above would be quicker and more intuitive than Kontakt, with enough power for *most* uses, and Kontakt could still be the go-to for high power applications.

More to the point, Kontakt is expensive, and Reason is supposed to be an in-the-box solution. If it "doesn't need a sampler" because Kontakt is better, then it certainly doesn't need Europa, because Serum is better, etc etc.

[EnochLight]

Most would argue that a sampler is only as good as its sample library (hence, Kontakt). If you're into creating content, though, I can see how you're still left wanting.

[Psuper]

Reasons sample manipulation workflow is a nightmare. I do most of my editing in stuff in ocenaudio.

A sampler won't help the crappy sample-editing backend in Reason.

[mojo]

We need a real sampling drum machine to replace this old redrum.

[EnochLight]

We need a real sampling drum machine to replace this old redrum.

You've been able to sample with Redrum since version 5.

[QVprod]

Reasons sample manipulation workflow is a nightmare. I do most of my editing in stuff in ocenaudio.

A sampler won't help the crappy sample-editing backend in Reason.

From the looks of oceanaudio it seems to be a pretty basic audio editor. I get that sample editing in the actual samplers in Reason is limited but I'd like to know what advantages this has over just using the sequencer (or a Block) for editing.

[Psuper]

Reasons sample manipulation workflow is a nightmare. I do most of my editing in stuff in ocenaudio.

A sampler won't help the crappy sample-editing backend in Reason.

From the looks of oceanaudio it seems to be a pretty basic audio editor. I get that sample editing in the actual samplers in Reason is limited but I'd like to know what advantages this has over just using the sequencer (or a Block) for editing.

Absolutely, it's ridiculously basic, just a quick no-bloat solution. I used to use Audition, but rarely do any sample stuff these days.
I use the sequencer for typical stuff (fades, normalizing, etc), and oceanaudio for the editing basics. Not only is it quicker to make or adjust most edits than Reasons paltry sample editor, but working within a windows GUI for any samples/file management, copying, deleting, etc is far more efficient than within Reason.

[chaosroyale]

For people who only use samplers to play libraries this probably doesn't seem like a big deal but for people who record and edit their own samples it's huge.

Reasons sample editing doesn't have *any* of the most useful and common basic features (eg: fade or normalize a range to a certain percentage or target dB, curves for fades, useful cut and paste with in a sample, never even mind more advanced options like EQ or timestretch) and the playback features on NN-XT are anqituated (see list above but no automation of loop points with adjustable crossfade is just one example).

Samplers are not only "library players". The answer to "what would you want a sampler to be capable of" is "the basic features of an actual sampler".

[EnochLight]

For people who only use samplers to play libraries this probably doesn't seem like a big deal but for people who record and edit their own samples it's huge.

Reasons sample editing doesn't have *any* of the most useful and common basic features (eg: fade or normalize a range to a certain percentage or target dB, curves for fades, useful cut and paste with in a sample, never even mind more advanced options like EQ or timestretch) and the playback features on NN-XT are anqituated (see list above but no automation of loop points with adjustable crossfade is just one example).

It's hard to argue with any of that. The funny thing is, at least in the context of Reason, NNXT was antiquated the day it was released over 15 years ago! It only possessed some of the features of a basic Akai hardware sampler from the late 80's/early 90's, and didn't even have the basic sample editor that's currently in Reason at all. About the coolest feature it had at the time was being able to detect samples by pitch and automapping zones. Actually, I can't remember if it even had those features back in 2002!

Samplers are not only "library players". The answer to "what would you want a sampler to be capable of" is "the basic features of an actual sampler".

Something tells me that Reason's approach to samplers will never afford us advanced sample editing. Ever. After 5 major version releases (the basic sample editor appeared in 5.0), we're still left with most of how it worked then and only a few tweaks since then.

But maybe if people keep contacting Props and requesting it, they'll work on adding advanced sample editing features. I just suspect that, since the introduction of VST support, they will be less inclined to do that and instead choose to focus on more important issues (such as VST performance in Reason, GUI/UX modernization, etc). Perhaps I'll be wrong, though.

[ejanuska]

If NN-XT exists then others can exist.
Not sure why developers choose to make so many synths but not a sampler.
Maybe E. Panda is on it secretly. (Hope)

I would buy a RE sampler without a doubt. I'm not a fan of NN-XT.
I prefer a sampler that shows the waveform while editing it.
But this is sorry. It should be part of a RE.

sampler.png (64.04 KiB) Viewed 4244 times

[QVprod]

If NN-XT exists then others can exist.
Not sure why developers choose to make so many synths but not a sampler.
Maybe E. Panda is on it secretly. (Hope)

I would buy a RE sampler without a doubt. I'm not a fan of NN-XT.
I prefer a sampler that shows the waveform while editing it.
But this is sorry. It should be part of a RE.

sampler.png

Yeah the dedicated sample editor in Reason is pretty bad (REs that sample same have the same sample editor IIRC). With the exception of looping, it's better to use the sequencer for the actual editing.

Edit: But that raises the question, do people really want to edit samples on something that fits in the rack? That just seems like such a small space, I would be irritated working with it. Unless RE's get the ability to have pop out windows I can't see sample editing being an improvement with a sampler.