What's the lowest LFO rate possible in Reason?

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dvdrtldg
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18 Dec 2017

I have a bunch of LFOs but am wondering if there's a RE (or VST for that matter) that can manage a super low frequency - like, 5 mins or longer per cycle? Scrolling through my REs I can't find anything that does the trick.

Edit: Ah, OK, Ammo does 0.001Hz which should be slow enough. I'll leave the thread up in case anyone has anything interesting to add.

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Bumbum
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18 Dec 2017

just out of curiosity, why are you using so slow lfo?

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dvdrtldg
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18 Dec 2017

I'm programming drums with PSQ-1684 and want to veeeeeerrrrrrrrry gradually increase the frequency of a snare hit, using a sawtooth (ramp up) wave to increase the Euclidean Density so that you don't notice the effect until it suddenly stops.

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Bumbum
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18 Dec 2017

cool idea! i thought you were making some synthetic doom metal or something.

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dvdrtldg
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18 Dec 2017

Getting started on my album of Sunn 0))) covers right away

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selig
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18 Dec 2017

As a fan of super slow LFO rates, and ways to achieve them in Reason, I applaud folks like Jiggery who provide these solutions. But I also find that many times, automation is better for the super slow stuff with one exception - when you want free run LFOs that don't repeat each time you play (for super ambient drone that never repeat). But for most of my work, I want repeatability, in that I want the LFO to hit the peak at the same point every time I hit play - and for that I find automation to be quicker and easier in all cases.

My point: don't overlook automation for this sort of application, if it makes sense for the specific task at hand.
:)
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Bumbum
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18 Dec 2017

dvdrtldg wrote:
18 Dec 2017
Getting started on my album of Sunn 0))) covers right away
:thumbs_up: :twisted:

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dvdrtldg
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18 Dec 2017

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2017
As a fan of super slow LFO rates, and ways to achieve them in Reason, I applaud folks like Jiggery who provide these solutions. But I also find that many times, automation is better for the super slow stuff with one exception - when you want free run LFOs that don't repeat each time you play (for super ambient drone that never repeat). But for most of my work, I want repeatability, in that I want the LFO to hit the peak at the same point every time I hit play - and for that I find automation to be quicker and easier in all cases.

My point: don't overlook automation for this sort of application, if it makes sense for the specific task at hand.
:)
Point taken - I was asking myself why not just automate, and the answer has something to do with the pure joy of setting up a modular system. I love using CV in Reason so much that I find myself sometimes avoiding automation because it feels like "cheating". I'll spend ages figuring out how to warp & route a CV signal just how I want it, and then later realise it would have taken me seconds to automate for the same effect. Just love the back of the rack

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fieldframe
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18 Dec 2017

Just for reference:

Pulsar goes down to 0.06 Hz, which equates to about 17 seconds per cycle.

Little LFO, however, can match Ammo at 0.001 Hz. That's over 15 minutes per cycle!

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AttenuationHz
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18 Dec 2017

Little LFO has the lowest rate alright.

Here's a good site I used to use. But does anyone know of a better tool for calculating the sync rate of cycles per second for an LFO?

Use this chart more so now gives the hz/per measure on the far right. http://www.barryrudolph.com/greg/delay2.html usually just divide by whatever measure I want. To keep things in snyc when you use Free lfo's that is a very useful chart. Also gives the time of measures in ms which is useful for setting the release time for a standard kick on compressors when you use multiple tempos or calculating the sync rate of delays if you use delays on CV/normal audio delay.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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mbfrancis
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19 Dec 2017

I still can't believe Little LFO is free, I happily paid $15. It should be a utility, though...I can never find it.
Producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist. I make indie pop as Port Streets, 90s/shoegaze as Swooner, and Electro as Yours Mine.

WongoTheSane
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19 Dec 2017

mbfrancis wrote:
19 Dec 2017
I still can't believe Little LFO is free, I happily paid $15. It should be a utility, though...I can never find it.
Same here, but the thing is that it does audio, and has some excellent patches by Puniho!

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AttenuationHz
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19 Dec 2017

WongoTheSane wrote:
19 Dec 2017
mbfrancis wrote:
19 Dec 2017
I still can't believe Little LFO is free, I happily paid $15. It should be a utility, though...I can never find it.
Same here, but the thing is that it does audio, and has some excellent patches by Puniho!
Use it so much it is in my instrument list in the context menu and also in a CV .favo right at the top! I would happily pay for it myself. Use it more than pulsar and paid for that, it is twice its worth!
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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starship
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23 Dec 2017

KRON can also do .001Hz if you set the fine frequency to the lowest setting (.0039Hz x .25 ~= .001Hz). Sync-wise, It can do 128 bars ... which could be 5 min if the tempo was low enough. :)

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ejanuska
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03 Jan 2018

starship wrote:
23 Dec 2017
KRON can also do .001Hz if you set the fine frequency to the lowest setting (.0039Hz x .25 ~= .001Hz). Sync-wise, It can do 128 bars ... which could be 5 min if the tempo was low enough. :)
The ultra-oscillator.
I love it but it's like using a .44 Magnum to shoot a sparrow.

BTW Kron Starship man, is there a way to invert some of the outputs of a single Kron oscillator? Or do I need to patch the output to some other function to invert it?
For example oscillator 1 is set where I want it. I want the normal wave and an inverted wave. The invert button seems to invert all the outputs of the oscillator.

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theshoemaker
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03 Jan 2018

ejanuska wrote:
03 Jan 2018
starship wrote:
23 Dec 2017
KRON can also do .001Hz if you set the fine frequency to the lowest setting (.0039Hz x .25 ~= .001Hz). Sync-wise, It can do 128 bars ... which could be 5 min if the tempo was low enough. :)
The ultra-oscillator.
I love it but it's like using a .44 Magnum to shoot a sparrow.

BTW Kron Starship man, is there a way to invert some of the outputs of a single Kron oscillator? Or do I need to patch the output to some other function to invert it?
For example oscillator 1 is set where I want it. I want the normal wave and an inverted wave. The invert button seems to invert all the outputs of the oscillator.
AFAIK you can flip only all outputs, but there is always the User/Custom Output.
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

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ejanuska
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03 Jan 2018

theshoemaker wrote:
03 Jan 2018
AFAIK you can flip only all outputs, but there is always the User/Custom Output.
Yeah, that's what I've seen.
You know I'm a typical user. I want every possible feature and option for bottom dollar.
I don't want to hear about SDK limitations or overhead. The RE should be able to support thousands of CV I/O.
Just give us that and128kHz audio that can be processed on a 486-66MHz computer already. :lol:

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starship
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03 Jan 2018

Heyo! Lol on the .44 vs. a poor, poor sparrow.

Each component's outputs have 2 out of the 4 that can be inverted relative to whatever the front is doing. They also have 2 overlapping uni/bi outputs (1 is unique, 1 can be inverted... don't ask me why I did it like this to be honest. :) for more flexibility I suppose.)

So each set of outputs has 2 toggles next to it which control this. FWIW, I just double-checked to make sure it wasn't buggy and not doing this... ;)

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starship
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03 Jan 2018

ejanuska wrote:
03 Jan 2018
starship wrote:
23 Dec 2017
KRON can also do .001Hz if you set the fine frequency to the lowest setting (.0039Hz x .25 ~= .001Hz). Sync-wise, It can do 128 bars ... which could be 5 min if the tempo was low enough. :)
The ultra-oscillator.
I love it but it's like using a .44 Magnum to shoot a sparrow.

BTW Kron Starship man, is there a way to invert some of the outputs of a single Kron oscillator? Or do I need to patch the output to some other function to invert it?
For example oscillator 1 is set where I want it. I want the normal wave and an inverted wave. The invert button seems to invert all the outputs of the oscillator.
here, to make sure I actually quote you...

Also, a great advantage to using a powerful LFO if you're going to do something at that low speed is, and this is regardless of the device, then you can fine-tune what's going on, e.g. drawing the waveform.. I mean that's obvious, but if you literally want an LFO that takes like 5 mins plus to oscillate, you want some options on that LFO... and probably it would help to set high/low boundaries, even a mid shift (what I call warp), etc.

If I were doing it, I'd use a sync (synced to the play position) frequency so skipping around in the song would land on the right spot re: the LFO. I mean that's all kinda obvious, but I think there's a total case to be made for using seriously slow LFOs versus drawing in automation. I'm pretty sure I've used very, very slow LFOs before.. maybe not that slow but very slow, just to get nice gradual and smooth and subtle variation on various things.

Some of doing that is why I made the KRON. :)

electrofux
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07 Jan 2018

wasnt there a way to slow down an lfo with thor? I think i asked ages ago and Selig was at hand with a Thor configuration.

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selig
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07 Jan 2018

electrofux wrote:wasnt there a way to slow down an lfo with thor? I think i asked ages ago and Selig was at hand with a Thor configuration.
Yes. You use a button and negative amount in the mod matrix to force a bias/offset of the frequency. You may need to double assign it to achieve max effect, but even then you’re only getting one cycle every 45 sec or so. With REs there are options to get much slower.


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