Question For Developers who have allready fully devloped extentions

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dustiraw
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29 Oct 2017

Hey Guys,

I'm asking because I'm just signed up for the development program with Propellerhead and I'm just wanting to know if I'm going in over my head. I'm a sound Designer starting an educational path so have Expert level skills in the production/engineering field as well as building withing Reaktors Core Modules but only basic knowledge of coding. For my first (kind of a trial for me) extension I just basically want a simple sample player filled with sounds designed by me (nexus-like) and want to know what you guys think in terms of development cost. I know major coding is not necessarily required but how much of the development did you find you needed to outsource and what were the things that needed expert level coding-like skills? Trying to do this on my own but I'm sure I will need assistance in some departments as I want the extension to only be of quality or else there is no point in releasing it. I would hate to water down the market. Also if you have any tips or obstacles I may face or should look out for please let me know.

Thank you!
Last edited by dustiraw on 27 Nov 2017, edited 1 time in total.
Dusti Miraglia
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rcbuse
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29 Oct 2017

It sounds to me like their IDT based SDK is right fit for you. If you can handle Reaktor Core stuff, you should be able to navigate your way though their "IDT Programming for Musicians" document without much pain.

dustiraw
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30 Oct 2017

rcbuse wrote:
29 Oct 2017
It sounds to me like their IDT based SDK is right fit for you. If you can handle Reaktor Core stuff, you should be able to navigate your way though their "IDT Programming for Musicians" document without much pain.
Thank you for the confidence boost! and swift responce.
Dusti Miraglia
Sound D-Sine Music
https://LearnSoundDSine.com
Dusti@LearnSoundDsine.com
Check out the blog I run over at https://unison.audio/blog/ for extensive In-depth production related lessons and tutorials!

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normen
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30 Oct 2017

Yes you are in over your head. You NEED to be able to program - and not just a few javascript web pages - to make a proper RE, also with IDT.

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Zac
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30 Oct 2017

normen wrote:
30 Oct 2017
Yes you are in over your head. You NEED to be able to program - and not just a few javascript web pages - to make a proper RE, also with IDT.
Good old Normen, never a thought filtered ;) If that's true then I applaud your honesty. Most people shy away from possibly telling people what they don't want to hear.

I still hope the OP will at least try with the SDK, the more the merrier. Apart from one or two... who promise things and don't deliver (I'm not talking about Ochen.K here, I'm feeling a bit sensitive that I have been overly critical on him).

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Ahornberg
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30 Oct 2017

dustiraw wrote:
29 Oct 2017
[...] For my first (kind of a trial for me) extension I just basically want a simple sample player filled with sounds designed by me (nexus-like) [...]
Have you thought about making a Refill for NN-XT?

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Rainwaves
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30 Oct 2017

The IDT SDK would be perfect for you if you only want to build sample based instruments.

If you want to be able to make any sort of RE you can imagine, you'll need to learn C++.

Whether you'll be able to handle this comes down to how hardcore you're going to be about learning. It will be tough and challenging going in the deep end to learn how to program, but if you're determined to do it you certainly can. If you want to try it out, you'll probably want to check out Will Pirkle's book: Designing Audio Effects in C++.

The biggest obstacles to watch out for: self-doubt and/or bug related aneurysms

Good luck!
:reason: Stay tuned! :puf_smile: :re:

dustiraw
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02 Nov 2017

Thank you for all the responses!

Norman, I appreciate the honesty, but to be honest, I believe I can!

AHornburg Yes, I have thought about ReFills but want to get more on the plugin development side of things eventually creating my own synths.

Rainwaves, thanks! I am an avid builder in Reaktor Core and Since I posted I have taken up programming and plan on studying further with a friend who programs for a living at a securities software company. Though, for my first, I would like it to be a simple build. My favorite thing in the world to do is learn and I am currently teaching sound design so I'm confident I can do this with persistence on my side.

You guys are great, will keep you updated and post if i have some questions along the way.

Thanks for the support!
Dusti Miraglia
Sound D-Sine Music
https://LearnSoundDSine.com
Dusti@LearnSoundDsine.com
Check out the blog I run over at https://unison.audio/blog/ for extensive In-depth production related lessons and tutorials!

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1423
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

03 Nov 2017

Rainwaves wrote:
30 Oct 2017
The IDT SDK would be perfect for you if you only want to build sample based instruments.

If you want to be able to make any sort of RE you can imagine, you'll need to learn C++.

Whether you'll be able to handle this comes down to how hardcore you're going to be about learning. It will be tough and challenging going in the deep end to learn how to program, but if you're determined to do it you certainly can. If you want to try it out, you'll probably want to check out Will Pirkle's book: Designing Audio Effects in C++.

The biggest obstacles to watch out for: self-doubt and/or bug related aneurysms

Good luck!
Can you list any valuable resources on learning C++ id like to learn about it and see where it could take me. I have absolutely no programming knowledge and am at the where do I start phase
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EpiGenetik
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03 Nov 2017

scratchnsnifff wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Rainwaves wrote:
30 Oct 2017
The IDT SDK would be perfect for you if you only want to build sample based instruments.

If you want to be able to make any sort of RE you can imagine, you'll need to learn C++.

Whether you'll be able to handle this comes down to how hardcore you're going to be about learning. It will be tough and challenging going in the deep end to learn how to program, but if you're determined to do it you certainly can. If you want to try it out, you'll probably want to check out Will Pirkle's book: Designing Audio Effects in C++.

The biggest obstacles to watch out for: self-doubt and/or bug related aneurysms

Good luck!
Can you list any valuable resources on learning C++ id like to learn about it and see where it could take me. I have absolutely no programming knowledge and am at the where do I start phase
If you have the resources available, go to college/university as you'll get to know the purpose of coding and how to do it regardless of the language. You also need to learn development as well as just coding, they are 2 different disciplines, along with getting abstract and technical knowledge of data structuring, object orientation and algorithms.

It's not impossible to get this kinda stuff from books alone, but rather than jumping straight into the Stroustrup cookbooks etc., you should start with the Dummies books to get a feel for the concepts in a friendlier language format. For algorithms however, you may still want to do a basic 30-credit 2nd or 3rd year uni level course (at a fraction of the price of a full degree course), as there is stuff in that particular area that would difficult to grasp from textbooks alone.

I say go for it! :) Besides, if you start with the Dummies books and can't get your brain to work in that way (there is no shame in this, many highly intelligent people don't have the ideal set of cognitive strongpoints for programming), then you at least have a foundation understanding which is applicable across many disciplines.

Good luck

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1423
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

03 Nov 2017

EpiGenetik wrote:
03 Nov 2017
scratchnsnifff wrote:
03 Nov 2017


Can you list any valuable resources on learning C++ id like to learn about it and see where it could take me. I have absolutely no programming knowledge and am at the where do I start phase
If you have the resources available, go to college/university as you'll get to know the purpose of coding and how to do it regardless of the language. You also need to learn development as well as just coding, they are 2 different disciplines, along with getting abstract and technical knowledge of data structuring, object orientation and algorithms.

It's not impossible to get this kinda stuff from books alone, but rather than jumping straight into the Stroustrup cookbooks etc., you should start with the Dummies books to get a feel for the concepts in a friendlier language format. For algorithms however, you may still want to do a basic 30-credit 2nd or 3rd year uni level course (at a fraction of the price of a full degree course), as there is stuff in that particular area that would difficult to grasp from textbooks alone.

I say go for it! :) Besides, if you start with the Dummies books and can't get your brain to work in that way (there is no shame in this, many highly intelligent people don't have the ideal set of cognitive strongpoints for programming), then you at least have a foundation understanding which is applicable across many disciplines.

Good luck
Indeed:) il have to try that out! I am In a liberal arts program at the moment but my main objective is to transfer to a place called Nescom and do an audio engineering program. I know of a friend who knows C++ but our schedules are quite the opposite so hour long tips from a friend is kinda out of the question. So start with with book and try a class :) thanks this is the most help I’ve gotten
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Blamsoft
RE Developer
Posts: 100
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03 Nov 2017

Here are resources for learning how to program:
www.coursera.org
https://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
https://see.stanford.edu (The Intro to Computer Science here is my recommendation to you)
Last edited by Blamsoft on 01 Nov 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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theshoemaker
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03 Nov 2017

This Course from Barcelona and Standford. I'd recommend this, as they start with python (which will be a nobrainer for you, it'll be easier to first understand the concept of DSP and then apply it in C++):
https://www.coursera.org/learn/audio-signal-processing/

and this course from MIT looks promising ... going to have a look at them myself:

https://www.edx.org/course/discrete-tim ... x-6-341x-1

This discussion here:
https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-best ... a-beginner

And from this list (https://dspguru.com/dsp/books/favorites/) I already had a look at Nr. 2 which is also freely avaiable online:

http://www.dspguide.com/pdfbook.htm
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

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theshoemaker
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04 Nov 2017

I love to use jupyter-notebook where you use the browser as UI. For research and plotting the results for instant feedback.

When learning about DSP for comparison you can also use the scipy or numpy package. They have a FFT function/module to try out or plot the result as image
:PUF_figure: latest :reason: V12 on MacOS Ventura

dustiraw
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13 Nov 2017

THANK YOU ALL! Going to start these courses asap beginning with intro to computer science. Starting NOW, Thanks again guys!
Dusti Miraglia
Sound D-Sine Music
https://LearnSoundDSine.com
Dusti@LearnSoundDsine.com
Check out the blog I run over at https://unison.audio/blog/ for extensive In-depth production related lessons and tutorials!

ahuimanu
Posts: 17
Joined: 24 Feb 2016

14 Nov 2017

I know Zilch about plugin development, but a fair enough about development. In the end, it is aptitude, drive, determination and time. Can you drop everything in your life for this? C++ is a rough road.

avasopht
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15 Nov 2017

I'm not sure C++ is the best language to start with. You're going to be learning two things at the same time: how to program, and a programming language. It's much easier to learn both when the programming language isn't the most complex of the languages.

Personally I read pretty much every book I could find on just about any language because the web was young when I got started. The Usborne computer and coding books were a great help in the early days and despite being written for kids are probably more in depth than most adult books today!

That being said, persistence will take you places.

Understanding Digital Signal Processing is a brilliant book as is Engineering Mathematics.

dustiraw
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16 Nov 2017

ahuimanu wrote:
14 Nov 2017
I know Zilch about plugin development, but a fair enough about development. In the end, it is aptitude, drive, determination and time. Can you drop everything in your life for this? C++ is a rough road.
No, I cant as my main focus is writing and sound design. I am not looking to become a developer not to create synths and audio utilities but for right now as a platform for sound design as an alternative to refills and presets. Though that is not totally ruled out.

Was Trying to feel out the community to see if propellerheads developer platform as simple as they claim. I am an avid builder in Reaktor core and although it's not programming it is complex and I feel it may relatively similar in terms of what I need to get accomplished. I don't need anything that innovative as the work is done by utilizing samples, for now.

Thank you for your input
Dusti Miraglia
Sound D-Sine Music
https://LearnSoundDSine.com
Dusti@LearnSoundDsine.com
Check out the blog I run over at https://unison.audio/blog/ for extensive In-depth production related lessons and tutorials!

dustiraw
Posts: 55
Joined: 01 May 2016
Location: South Florida
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16 Nov 2017

avasopht wrote:
15 Nov 2017
I'm not sure C++ is the best language to start with. You're going to be learning two things at the same time: how to program, and a programming language. It's much easier to learn both when the programming language isn't the most complex of the languages.

Personally I read pretty much every book I could find on just about any language because the web was young when I got started. The Usborne computer and coding books were a great help in the early days and despite being written for kids are probably more in depth than most adult books today!

That being said, persistence will take you places.

Understanding Digital Signal Processing is a brilliant book as is Engineering Mathematics.
Thank you so much. Appreciate the resources!
Dusti Miraglia
Sound D-Sine Music
https://LearnSoundDSine.com
Dusti@LearnSoundDsine.com
Check out the blog I run over at https://unison.audio/blog/ for extensive In-depth production related lessons and tutorials!

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Rainwaves
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10 Feb 2018

scratchnsnifff wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Can you list any valuable resources on learning C++ id like to learn about it and see where it could take me. I have absolutely no programming knowledge and am at the where do I start phase
Sorry I'm late! Okay, C++ learning resources...

1) One learning resource for beginners I can't recommend highly enough is this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-C-Through-Ga ... 1435457420
2) You can't go wrong with Youtube tutorials. This dude is great at explaining things: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvC1WCdV1XU&lis ... 8440AA6B83
3) Pick a programming forum - there are plenty. Find the C++ beginner section and ask questions when you're struggling!
4) You may also want to check out online courses such as those found on Lynda or Udemy. This would make your life easier because you'd have access to email a teacher.

Quite a few people will say you shouldn't pick C++ as your first programming language, or that you need to go to university etc... If you want a reason to ignore that advice, I can tell you that learning this stuff all comes down to your determination. It does take commitment, but if you're determined, you can succeed purely with books, videos, and through discussions on the internet. Your 'first day at university' may as well have been reading the replies on this thread anyway.
Last edited by Rainwaves on 10 Feb 2018, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: Stay tuned! :puf_smile: :re:

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Oquasec
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10 Feb 2018

Good question. I wonder how different that is compared to Steinberg's format in how the code is laid out.
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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

10 Feb 2018

The thing is when you know C++ you still don't know a thing about DSP. Thats a lot of math - you need to understand Euler and shit.

If you ”just" want to do what everybody else does (filters and stuff), I can recommend this book which basically teaches you all at once without too much background, I guess that might be what you want. Then when you have an overview and an actual idea what this all means you can go deeper by your own means.


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normen
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10 Feb 2018

Oquasec wrote:
10 Feb 2018
Good question. I wonder how different that is compared to Steinberg's format in how the code is laid out.
Theres no "format" really, VST is just an interface (thats a specific term in programming), its not actual code or any "structure" really. Your code can look as you like it, you just have to supply the right info and grab your samples at the right point using the VST interface.

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 2048
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Location: Back of the Rack-1

10 Feb 2018

Rainwaves wrote:
10 Feb 2018
scratchnsnifff wrote:
03 Nov 2017
Can you list any valuable resources on learning C++ id like to learn about it and see where it could take me. I have absolutely no programming knowledge and am at the where do I start phase
Sorry I'm late! Okay, C++ learning resources...

1)One learning resource for beginners I can't recommend highly enough is this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-C-Through-Ga ... 1435457420
2) You can't go wrong with Youtube tutorials. This dude is great at explaining things: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvC1WCdV1XU&lis ... 8440AA6B83
3) Pick a programming forum - there are plenty. Find the C++ beginner section and ask questions when you're struggling!
4)You may also want to check out online courses such as those found on Lynda or Udemy. This would make your life easier because you'd have access to email a teacher.

Quite a few people will say you shouldn't pick C++ as your first programming language, or that you need to go to university etc... If you want a reason to ignore than advice, I can tell you that learning this stuff all comes down to your determination. It does take commitment, but if you're determined, you can succeed purely with books, videos, and through discussions on the internet. Your 'first day at university' may as well have been reading the replies on this thread anyway.
Whole heartedly agree with that. Goes for anything really if you are determined and committed enough you will succeed!

Here's a YouTube series that Iv'e started watching that goes in very great detail. From the get go it dictates a pace I think you need to be able to follow to have any chance of learning. Fast talker but explains stuff well.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

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Oquasec
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Joined: 05 Mar 2017

10 Feb 2018

This is why you have to appreciate the people with the time and resources to actually learn a programming language on top of everything else going on.
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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