PH makes subscriptions?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria

Post 10 Oct 2017

And they say that Propellerhead left their revolutionary spirit in the past, ....c'mon just give me a break and accept the opposite to be true. ;) The subscription model rocks. I hope for VST-developers to join that wagon as well. Let's imagine we need an otherwise expensive plugin or only a particular device from the Waves bundle right now. This is truly a big win as it makes it possible to get something we occasionally consider useful, according to the purpose of the project.

This new subscription model can be also used to extent an expired trial to a dirt cheap price. Many Users have been demanding for wanting to re-trial specific REs again. To be honest, i often run in a situation where i'm not able to either get out the most from my trial period or i just couldn't comprehend and appreciate the REs very concept from the beginning. Nevertheless it feels fair if a RE developer refuses to reset because why should he/she meet a requested demand for someone not involved with his/her Beta-tester-squad,...

I never used to beg for resets, this just happened recently that i had to ask a RE developer for the very firs time. It is understandable why he ignored my request. Why should he care, right ? Even if i make a vow with him to get back buying a full license to a later time, promises may be fulfilled or not, that's how it is. Plus it isn't his but my problem if i can't decide what i need to get first you know.

In such a case there is nothing to gain with being generous. From my point of view revaluing his product could have supported my decision-making, between RE XYZ and VST XYZ. After the motto ALWAYS expect the unexpected, the surprising announcement of Reason 10 has literally changed my priorites. I ended up with getting a specific EQ plugin first, put the RE XYZ on the To-Buy list and have plans to save up money for the Reason 10 upgrade. Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone were to tell me him to be a member of dependable Alpha-Testers. :)

Just by the way, i don't think that the sudden advent of the subscription model makes Reason 10 less appealing. At least not from a objective stand of view of course. It really depends on our preferences and the momentary goals. Reason 10 also includes devices not available in the shop as separate Rack Extensions, so therefore to each his/her own. In regards the expressed worries about Propellerhead on wanting to expand the subscription principle to their flagship products as well, ...well i don't think they have to or else they wouldn't had to establish their own plugin format which ensures a regular income anyway.

The current subscription plan for REs and maybe VSTs too (IF demanded by the VST-developers) will definitely boost the profit. And let's pretend they have plans to experiment with a subscription plan for Reason too, ....what makes us sure that the expressed apocalypse comes true ? Why should they consider to increase either the usual retail price or the price for an upgrade ? Wouldn't this backslash potential customers wanting to get a full Reason license once they manage to afford it ?!? Try to observe this from an angle with basic business.

In regards the SDK i believe that Propellerhead aims for a "no brainer" solution, which means that a golden age might be possible for RE & VST-developers in the future. All the current headaches can be a matter of past. Some things will depend on the VST-format's flexibility. That's something that Propellerhead can't control but everything on their part is manageable to make a - as smooth as possible - integration possible for everyone. For the meantime let's hope for VST-plugins registerable with Propellerhead's authorization and MORE Rack Extensions. Good things come to those who wait. ;)

Much Love
Nicola

Ps: Dear Propellerheads. I would love to subscripe DNA Labs Hydronexius Workstation ROM. Need to evaluate this device again, especially their ReFill Cinematic Dreamworks Nexspansion. I guess it would make sense to add all ReFills corresponding with a ROMpler, right ? I thank you for your attention and hope for your understanding.

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The_G
Posts: 554
Joined: 17 Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles

Post 10 Oct 2017

Oquasec wrote:
10 Oct 2017
The only way I'd accept props replacing anything with subscribe only, is 200-400$ a year will all plugins attached to it by default.
If they ever went "subscribe only," I'd stop using the platform. I suspect a lot of people would.

Now to be fair, there's no indication this is going to happen. So this is purely hypothetical. But I think it would be a very bad business decision, as well as very bad for the consumer. Propellerheads isn't Adobe, who have a captive market. All of us have many other options, and even a lot of people who love Reason and have supported it since the beginning, like me, would nope the **** out of there stat.

I'm sure they realize that, though. So I don't *think* it's gonna happen.
Cosmopolis, out now: : https://timeslaves.bandcamp.com/album/cosmopolis! Check out the first single, "City Lights:

Galaxy
Posts: 282
Joined: 27 Oct 2016

Post 10 Oct 2017

It's looking like most people here are against sub models and that's a good thing imho.

Here is the reason why a sub only model sucks. Imagine you had to sub to a monthly: RE bundle, Reason itself, every other VST plugin or plugin company itself and not to mention any other DAW you might use. Imagine what your monthly software bill would be like? RE + Reason + UAD + Waves + iZotope + NI + Arturia + any other VST company, if these were only $9 each, which they most definitely wouldn't be, that's $72 a month and not even including another DAW.

People have cell phone bills, internet bills, utility bills, mortgage payments, car payments, food bills, all this is built into a monthly expense. If software went sub only then most of us wouldn't be able to afford to make music anymore just based on how many different components are involved.

All this is hypothetical of course and only bringing it up to shed light on why a sub only model is a bad idea. Sub models themselves are also potentially a bad idea considering how you can potentially be paying forever and more than the worth of the software anyways. The option to still buy software the traditional way is essential. If companies need to milk their customers with sub only models because they're not making enough money they are either not reaching a big enough market or they are charging too much in the first place, cough cough ADOBE!

Most RE prices are acceptable and the price of Reason itself and the $129 upgrade price from any version is very acceptable.

Wonder how many people dropped Pro Tools when they went sub model and financially penalized their customers who skipped a version. At least you're not locked out of the software if you stop paying into the sub.

Food for thought.

mfavila
Posts: 39
Joined: 13 Feb 2017

Post 11 Oct 2017

ryanharlin wrote:
MattiasHG wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Do people think a subscription on Reason would replace buying Reason?
I think Adobe is the source of all that anxiety because every other subscription model I can think of from Slate to Apple contains a purchase path if you prefer. But Adobe went all in on subscriptions and validated everyone's fear that it could happen, even if they're alone in doing so.
Correct. I am making a strong assumption you all won't be doing that, but Adobe screwed everything up. They still offer the Essentials line,but it's not full Photoshop.

www.atomsapart.com


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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
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Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria

Post 11 Oct 2017

I trust Propellerhead because they ARE different and they brainstorm deeply. Doesn't it soothe the mind to know that they put a great research before they came up with the presented subscription model ? Isn't this alone a sign that they care to bring something which is beneficial for all parties ? What puzzles me is the fact that their loudest critics seem to forget Propellerhead's tendency to keep their uniqueness, while they keep expressing their confusion about decided priorities not corresponding with the mainstream on and on.

The description model is fair and i guess most developers have nothing complain in times of an ongoing economic crisis. Seven pages have been written so far and the majority of the posts show sings of negative emotions instead about understanding the potentials that a description model like this is bringing with. The fear about Reason to become more expensive or even not purchasable anymore is something i can't see with Propellerheads ever happening.

The era of digitization may make hard copies such DVD and CDs obsolete by time and i can imagine us to tip'n'swish over holographic displays, all happening in our current lifetime, which will be a funny thing to see the Reason rack to suddenly appear in our bed and living rooms. It is just a matter of time when Propellerhead might go 3D. :) We are already used to virtual products. The demand for "real" hardware will not vanish so soon but once we have reached a point where we can't distinguish between real and virtually it won't matter anymore.

Much Love
Nicola

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motuscott
Posts: 2291
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Location: the New York

Post 11 Oct 2017

I have an old version of Digital Performer and a bunch of AUs that I can’t be bothered to locate on my computer or figure out how to turn into VSTs. I have a rack full of REs that I “own” that will take the rest of my short brutish life to understand.
I don’t need no subscription unless it is a monthly self renewing subscription to madness which I believe I already purchased at KVR.
The Now Sound of MIDI Thru 🧂

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Zac
Posts: 1720
Joined: 19 May 2016

Post 11 Oct 2017

motuscott wrote:
11 Oct 2017
I have an old version of Digital Performer and a bunch of AUs that I can’t be bothered to locate on my computer or figure out how to turn into VSTs. I have a rack full of REs that I “own” that will take the rest of my short brutish life to understand.
I don’t need no subscription unless it is a monthly self renewing subscription to madness which I believe I already purchased at KVR.
Hey, one man's brute is another's saint... or something :/ I understand the KVR thing though... that's a site without a bottom... Since VSTs (and I've only bought 3) I've got lost there many a time :?

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 2342
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Post 11 Oct 2017

NicolaAlexandraHajdu wrote:
10 Oct 2017
And they say that Propellerhead left their revolutionary spirit in the past, ....c'mon just give me a break and accept the opposite to be true. ;) The subscription model rocks. I hope for VST-developers to join that wagon as well. Let's imagine we need an otherwise expensive plugin or only a particular device from the Waves bundle right now. This is truly a big win as it makes it possible to get something we occasionally consider useful, according to the purpose of the project.

This new subscription model can be also used to extent an expired trial to a dirt cheap price. Many Users have been demanding for wanting to re-trial specific REs again. To be honest, i often run in a situation where i'm not able to either get out the most from my trial period or i just couldn't comprehend and appreciate the REs very concept from the beginning. Nevertheless it feels fair if a RE developer refuses to reset because why should he/she meet a requested demand for someone not involved with his/her Beta-tester-squad,...

I never used to beg for resets, this just happened recently that i had to ask a RE developer for the very firs time. It is understandable why he ignored my request. Why should he care, right ? Even if i make a vow with him to get back buying a full license to a later time, promises may be fulfilled or not, that's how it is. Plus it isn't his but my problem if i can't decide what i need to get first you know.

In such a case there is nothing to gain with being generous. From my point of view revaluing his product could have supported my decision-making, between RE XYZ and VST XYZ. After the motto ALWAYS expect the unexpected, the surprising announcement of Reason 10 has literally changed my priorites. I ended up with getting a specific EQ plugin first, put the RE XYZ on the To-Buy list and have plans to save up money for the Reason 10 upgrade. Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone were to tell me him to be a member of dependable Alpha-Testers. :)

Just by the way, i don't think that the sudden advent of the subscription model makes Reason 10 less appealing. At least not from a objective stand of view of course. It really depends on our preferences and the momentary goals. Reason 10 also includes devices not available in the shop as separate Rack Extensions, so therefore to each his/her own. In regards the expressed worries about Propellerhead on wanting to expand the subscription principle to their flagship products as well, ...well i don't think they have to or else they wouldn't had to establish their own plugin format which ensures a regular income anyway.

The current subscription plan for REs and maybe VSTs too (IF demanded by the VST-developers) will definitely boost the profit. And let's pretend they have plans to experiment with a subscription plan for Reason too, ....what makes us sure that the expressed apocalypse comes true ? Why should they consider to increase either the usual retail price or the price for an upgrade ? Wouldn't this backslash potential customers wanting to get a full Reason license once they manage to afford it ?!? Try to observe this from an angle with basic business.

In regards the SDK i believe that Propellerhead aims for a "no brainer" solution, which means that a golden age might be possible for RE & VST-developers in the future. All the current headaches can be a matter of past. Some things will depend on the VST-format's flexibility. That's something that Propellerhead can't control but everything on their part is manageable to make a - as smooth as possible - integration possible for everyone. For the meantime let's hope for VST-plugins registerable with Propellerhead's authorization and MORE Rack Extensions. Good things come to those who wait. ;)

Much Love
Nicola

Ps: Dear Propellerheads. I would love to subscripe DNA Labs Hydronexius Workstation ROM. Need to evaluate this device again, especially their ReFill Cinematic Dreamworks Nexspansion. I guess it would make sense to add all ReFills corresponding with a ROMpler, right ? I thank you for your attention and hope for your understanding.
Thumbs up. Good post.
I understand some people want to feel sorry for the RE devs. Why? They are not children. As long as they are happy we, RE supporters, should be too. My interests and my wallet come first. The same is true for RE devs. Not a charity. If the deal is bad, walk away. I will never feel sorry for a good deal. That subscription model is a good deal for me.
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Catblack
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Joined: 15 Apr 2016

Post 12 Oct 2017

I am for subscriptions for REs. I think it's going to be pretty popular. I am getting a 2nd license so I can bring my love of Reason to a friend, and having them pick up a subscription makes fantastic economic sense.
If you ain't hip to the rare Housequake, shut up already.

Damn.

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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria

Post 12 Oct 2017

NekujaK wrote:
09 Oct 2017
This is a smart move by the Props to help REs remain viable in the big wide world of VSTs. Only time will tell if it works, or if REs will go the way of the dinosaur.
You may not have noticed yet the difference between a perfectly integrated Rack Extension and the overrated VST-format. ;) Just because of the recently given addition with VST-Support wild speculations became viral about a dying RE format. I believe what Ernst told us on the latest interview: https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/plug ... done-right. Honestly, i can't imagine a Reason rack without Rack Extensions anymore. I even prefer them over VST, for couple of reasons that eventually won't make sense for those not willing to dive any deeper into the modular madness.

Much Love
Nicola

Jmax
Posts: 665
Joined: 03 Apr 2015

Post 12 Oct 2017

I actually really like this model. God knows how many thousands I've spent already on RE's and just never use. On the other hand there are RE's I'd like to use but don't want to buy outright. This is very tempting to try new things.

mark999
Posts: 67
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

Post 15 Oct 2017

I wish Propellerheads all the best with this subscription model, it will work for some users and not work for some others, but I'm happy that they're exploring new ways to make money for the company.

I like owning things, and Reason has everything I need to finish songs so I won't need this subscription model.

My #1 priority is to make music, and to FINISH songs, then upload them to YouTube and Bandcamp and POND5 and get followers, fans, and generate as much income as I can from my hobby of making music.

To me, suddenly having an "all you can eat" buffet of Rack Extensions would be massive distraction from finishing songs. Playing around with hundreds of rack extensions and going through thousands of presets would take many hours, days, weeks and possibly even months of distraction away from making music, which is why I'm not subscribing.

The subscription model is a great deal for people who like "all you can eat" - and for the types who cram their studios full of as much hardware and software as they can. I try to accomplish as much as I can with as little as I can / or at least not go overboard.
Whenever I see a studio that is crammed full of hardware I think, 'wow, you probably never finish any songs' - and I just think the same thing with this subscription model. "Oh so you have access to 1000 rack extensions.... ok, show me just one song that you completed that is actually finished and is any good"

Having access to 100s of rack extensions will generate hundreds of new unfinished songs and projects for many people, they will just play around, testing all those new sounds and waste endless hours and days, and then repeat it all over again the following month, and never finishing anything in the long run, it will be a constant distraction.

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Flavolous
Posts: 500
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Location: ZW | GB

Post 16 Oct 2017

bxbrkrz wrote:
11 Oct 2017

Thumbs up. Good post.
I understand some people want to feel sorry for the RE devs. Why? They are not children. As long as they are happy we, RE supporters, should be too. My interests and my wallet come first. The same is true for RE devs. Not a charity. If the deal is bad, walk away. I will never feel sorry for a good deal. That subscription model is a good deal for me.
Wouldn't be surprised if Developers went VST unless the SDK gets a significant update to compete with the seemingly limitless possibilities in VSTland. It makes complete sense doing so as a business decision; though time confusing you're opening the doors to a significantly larger pool of customers.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 16 Oct 2017

Flavolous wrote:
16 Oct 2017
bxbrkrz wrote:
11 Oct 2017

Thumbs up. Good post.
I understand some people want to feel sorry for the RE devs. Why? They are not children. As long as they are happy we, RE supporters, should be too. My interests and my wallet come first. The same is true for RE devs. Not a charity. If the deal is bad, walk away. I will never feel sorry for a good deal. That subscription model is a good deal for me.
Wouldn't be surprised if Developers went VST unless the SDK gets a significant update to compete with the seemingly limitless possibilities in VSTland. It makes complete sense doing so as a business decision; though time confusing you're opening the doors to a significantly larger pool of customers.
RE is the future, also they are selling more REs in the stores than VSTs, from what PH Boss said. Does that mean you have less choices in VSTland? Nope. PH knows they are the underdog. I remember how old VST is. RE is still very young. I am sure they are aware of what needs to be done to keep everyone happy.
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QVprod
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Post 16 Oct 2017

mark999 wrote:
15 Oct 2017

The subscription model is a great deal for people who like "all you can eat" - and for the types who cram their studios full of as much hardware and software as they can. I try to accomplish as much as I can with as little as I can / or at least not go overboard.
Whenever I see a studio that is crammed full of hardware I think, 'wow, you probably never finish any songs' - and I just think the same thing with this subscription model. "Oh so you have access to 1000 rack extensions.... ok, show me just one song that you completed that is actually finished and is any good"

Having access to 100s of rack extensions will generate hundreds of new unfinished songs and projects for many people, they will just play around, testing all those new sounds and waste endless hours and days, and then repeat it all over again the following month, and never finishing anything in the long run, it will be a constant distraction.
Actually I'd argue the kind of people you're referring to weren't finishing songs anyway. Having a lot of hardware (or software) doesn't necessarily stop you from finishing songs. If you know how to use it, you simply just use what you need when you need it. Not too different from large studios with walls of outboard gear. Seasoned engineers who work there get mixes done with no problem. They know what devices they need for a task and only use those. Besides the way this works still requires some type of decision making as there is no subscription plan for unlimited REs.

On the other hand, what this subscription model allows for is for someone to rent a set of REs for a particular project. Maybe someone needs something like Bitspeak for certain voice fx but has no need to use it in all of their music. They now have the option to rent it for a month (or several), bounce the result, and move on, instead of buying it and it never being used again

Staarchylld
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 17 Oct 2017

So.....it seems that softube is not available in subscription form. Tube tech was the only reason I wanted to try subs out. That's pretty disappointing


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deeplink
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Post 06 Apr 2021

Just thought I would dig this up from the grave. Interesting read.

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Rising Night Wave
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Post 06 Apr 2021

now this is some serious good news for me. i did not know you can rent that much stuff - let's say 3k€ worth of REs for only 30€/month.
now this is more than generous from Reason Studios.

at the moment i am really really considering to strat my journey with this subscription. i am interested into 30€/month. but for start would be 10€/month more than enough since i do not know what to choose. damn! there is so much REs.

ps: i am interested more into effects than synths. but have no idea what to choose. h-h. would anyone recommend some good FXes?
Rising Night Wave & Extus at SoundCloud
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jam-s
Posts: 1310
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 06 Apr 2021

SynapseAudio wrote:
10 Oct 2017
jwd606 wrote:
09 Oct 2017
And Adobe are making a ton of money using this model. Hence every other software company, and their new private equity backers, must be looking if it could work for them.
There must be a reason it works for Adobe. I presume that their products were just too expensive for hobbyists back then. Now everybody can just get Photoshop for $19.99. So this is a special situation that does not necessarily translate to all software.
Photoshop was the "industry leader" by quite a margin in the field of pixel graphics software in the professional environment when they went subscription only. Reason is so far behind its competition in the pro audio production scene that such a move to go subscription only simply would not work out as there are many capable alternative DAWs with a larger market share.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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phithegoldenratio
Posts: 36
Joined: 30 Jul 2018

Post 07 Apr 2021

Rising Night Wave wrote:
06 Apr 2021
now this is some serious good news for me. i did not know you can rent that much stuff - let's say 3k€ worth of REs for only 30€/month.
now this is more than generous from Reason Studios.

at the moment i am really really considering to strat my journey with this subscription. i am interested into 30€/month. but for start would be 10€/month more than enough since i do not know what to choose. damn! there is so much REs.

ps: i am interested more into effects than synths. but have no idea what to choose. h-h. would anyone recommend some good FXes?
If you do not already own them, I would recommend https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... l%20Sounds for FX...
some truly unique designs and great sound quality plus the dev is responsive and active here. I guess it is better to buy them :D

DJMaytag
Posts: 298
Joined: 17 Jun 2015
Location: Madison, WI

Post 12 Apr 2021

I find the $9/mo has been fine for me to test drive $400 worth of RE's per month. I hate the pressure of trails, so I see this as a way to relieve that pressure to fully test something to figure out if I am going to use it or not.

I was in the midst of a lot of hardware purchases when Obsession was released, so I started the sub to use that until I was ready to buy it (which I did a few weeks ago). I'm fine with "tossing" $9/mo, as it's a way to trickle down a little bit of money to developers until I buy their products. It's not THAT big of a deal to me that I've effectively spent more than list price on some things, though I will jump at the chance to buy some of the sub RE's when they go on sale.

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