ReasonTalk.com

motuscott wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

How would this work if your machine lives offline?

Good point actually.

So we can pay monthly fees to never actually own a product that we probably already payed for. Instead of how it is now, where we've payed for products that we can never actually own....

Propellerhead is such a frustratingly wierd business.

Abstrax wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

So we can pay monthly fees to never actually own a product that we probably already payed for. Instead of how it is now, where we've payed for products that we can never actually own....

Propellerhead is such a frustratingly wierd business.

If you haven't read our interview with Filip, it explains how this works. You wouldn't rent REs you already own. That would be silly.

And you payed for a license. You really do own the license. The business is pretty straightforward. You just don't have a resale option.

QVprod wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

Abstrax wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

So we can pay monthly fees to never actually own a product that we probably already payed for. Instead of how it is now, where we've payed for products that we can never actually own....

Propellerhead is such a frustratingly wierd business.

If you haven't read our interview with Filip, it explains how this works. You wouldn't rent REs you already own. That would be silly.

And you payed for a license. You really do own the license. The business is pretty straightforward. You just don't have a resale option.

I admit, I didn't even know about the interview. I might give it a read when I get some free time.

I'm not saying we are renting REs we've already bought. They is really silly. I'm implying that Ive already bought most all of the REs I would've rented.

All due respect, I think your wrong or playing a semantic game with the nature of licence ownership. I get it tho.

MattiasHG wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

MirEko wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

Yeah it's all good now, but if props go subscription on Reason I will be a sad panda.

The RE subscriptions don't replace buying REs. Do people think a subscription on Reason would replace buying Reason? Is that where the fear comes from? Or is it something else? Would it be OK if you could either subscribe or buy? Just trying to understand the feedback

Hi MattiasHG,
Worried that a subscription model would replace the upgrade model for the core Reason program, like Adobe with Photoshop.

I use hardware mostly, sequencers, samplers, synths. I record to digital multitrack and then every few months mix down my tracks on a lazy Sunday using Reason and my RE's. I don't want a subscription model for the core Reason program where I have to pay monthly as I don't use the program every day/week.

MattiasHG wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

MirEko wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

Yeah it's all good now, but if props go subscription on Reason I will be a sad panda.

The RE subscriptions don't replace buying REs. Do people think a subscription on Reason would replace buying Reason? Is that where the fear comes from? Or is it something else? Would it be OK if you could either subscribe or buy? Just trying to understand the feedback

I think so. If you could rent or buy, sweet.

Abstrax wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

QVprod wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

If you haven't read our interview with Filip, it explains how this works. You wouldn't rent REs you already own. That would be silly.

And you payed for a license. You really do own the license. The business is pretty straightforward. You just don't have a resale option.

I admit, I didn't even know about the interview. I might give it a read when I get some free time.

I'm not saying we are renting REs we've already bought. They is really silly. I'm implying that Ive already bought most all of the REs I would've rented.

All due respect, I think your wrong or playing a semantic game with the nature of licence ownership. I get it tho.

Well of course if you bought most/all REs you want, or if you're in the camp that rather buys than rent, then this wouldn't appeal to you. I'm in the buy camp myself. Presents a nice option for those it's aimed at though.

As far as ownership, sure it's semantics, but ownership has to go beyond the ability to resale unless your business is stock trading or real estate. One could say owning a license for software has similarities to owning a timeshare. Minus the maintenance fees and once a year usage of course. Of course you can sell that too, but you get the idea.

Creativemind wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

motuscott wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

How would this work if your machine lives offline?

Good point actually.

I hadn't considered that you need sign in online for subscription REs. That makes it unworkable for me. Shame I would have had the odd month here and there I think.

No interest whatsoever. The only "rental" or subscription model I support is rent-to-own.

steff3 wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

Well, will be interesting how rent and buy will be handled.

If you subscribed a RE can you still buy it? - or you have to wait until the renting period is over? If you can buy it, will it be smooth (not accidentally removed at the time you remove it from the subscription pack)?

I would've thought (but I'm just speculating) that if you have an Re in a renting pack then you buy, you can still buy it - instantly. It's just it was in your renting pack so don't expect to choose another Re to rent, that deal is already underway. I couldn't see why anybody would do this though. Say you had 4Dyne and then decided you want to buy it, you might as well just wait till the end of the month, then buy it. You've still got it rented for that month. If you were gonna rehire those other Re's again the next month, well because it's done on a month by month basis then just choose another Re instead of 4dyne the next month.

The only way I'd accept props replacing anything with subscribe only, is 200-400$ a year will all plugins attached to it by default.

jwd606 wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

And Adobe are making a ton of money using this model. Hence every other software company, and their new private equity backers, must be looking if it could work for them.

There must be a reason it works for Adobe. I presume that their products were just too expensive for hobbyists back then. Now everybody can just get Photoshop for $19.99. So this is a special situation that does not necessarily translate to all software.

As far as plugins are concerned, I do not see regular purchases going anywhere, not in the foreseeable future. As long as PH offers both ways, more choice for the users which is always nice

Richard

SynapseAudio wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2017

jwd606 wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

And Adobe are making a ton of money using this model. Hence every other software company, and their new private equity backers, must be looking if it could work for them.

There must be a reason it works for Adobe. I presume that their products were just too expensive for hobbyists back then. Now everybody can just get Photoshop for $19.99. So this is a special situation that does not necessarily translate to all software.

As far as plugins are concerned, I do not see regular purchases going anywhere, not in the foreseeable future. As long as PH offers both ways, more choice for the users which is always nice

Richard

But the question that some are wondering is this model profitable for developers? Do dev get a smaller cut when going subscription?

Reason users are big on getting RE devs a proper cut for there hard work for there Favorite DAW Reason.

Ixus wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

Indeed, I want to own the tools I use, not rent them.

Having access to a whole bunch of RE's isn't that appealing to me personally, I still havent tried all the stuff I got from the synthetic bundle a while back. But I dont mind this practice with RE's tho, I know there are some out there who cant get enough of them it seems

To get a bit technical here, you never own any software you purchase, you only own the license to use it. With this model nothing really changes, only the duration of which you can use the license. If you like a RE enough you could always purchase and replace it in your subscription pack..

Thanks for the feedback regarding what you didn't like with the idea of Reason subscriptions, appreciate it!

One other thing: this will be the end of discounts and sales of plugins then!
A company can't offer a plugin with discount, when people are paying the full price while renting it.

Eprom wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2017

One other thing: this will be the end of discounts and sales of plugins then!
A company can't offer a plugin with discount, when people are paying the full price while renting it.

Why?

As I understand it, the subscription is always based on the list price and not the sale price

How about also a subscription type that allows you to start paying 3 euros a month for an effect/instrument RE of choice and when you've rented it for long enough to cover the official FULL PRICE - you'd own it after that?

deepndark wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2017

How about also a subscription type that allows you to start paying 3 euros a month for an effect/instrument RE of choice and when you've rented it for long enough to cover the official FULL PRICE - you'd own it after that?

That makes a lot of sense , like what Xfer does with Serum over at Splice. I think EVERYONE will be more than okay with that.
You just have to commit, and if u miss payments, u dont get penalized and can still continue to rent till the full price is reached.
Is this something that can be put forward to props. They could even do it with Upgrades.

PhutureD wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2017

deepndark wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2017

How about also a subscription type that allows you to start paying 3 euros a month for an effect/instrument RE of choice and when you've rented it for long enough to cover the official FULL PRICE - you'd own it after that?

That makes a lot of sense , like what Xfer does with Serum over at Splice. I think EVERYONE will be more than okay with that.
You just have to commit, and if u miss payments, u dont get penalized and can still continue to rent till the full price is reached.
Is this something that can be put forward to props. They could even do it with Upgrades.

Of cource I would want this one reaching Props. If this would happen, I could rent stuff and use it for such a small rent amount. Then own it at some point. This doesn't mean I wouldn't sometimes buy off REs like before parallely.

I give it a try. There is a lot of Re I tested months ago and I want to try it once again. This is a good option re do the testing. I also want to test some of the re in longer period. It's also a good option when you cannot spend 100€ at once on some synth but wants to use it.
This is my first subscription of synths.

One thing propellerhead. Ad the option to use it off line! For many of us it's crucial.

I'm assuming if you have a subscription and then you buy a RE from your subscription when it goes on sale, you have to wait for the 30 days to end until you can swap out a new RE to 'replace' the one you bought? If so not a deal breaker. All in all this is a great way to retrial things that might have expired and to check out new things for longer periods of time. Would be nice if Propellerhead got it to work for people who like to work offline. I know I would make a lot more music if I had a machine that wasn't connect to the gosh darn internet (too many distractions a click away)!

MattiasHG wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2017

The RE subscriptions don't replace buying REs. Do people think a subscription on Reason would replace buying Reason? Is that where the fear comes from? Or is it something else? Would it be OK if you could either subscribe or buy? Just trying to understand the feedback

Yes that is where the fear comes from... for example the way Adobe makes people pay monthly to use their programs and you can't buy them anymore, thus perpetually paying money for a program that you may only use occasionally or in spurts (ie. not everyday). It would be OKAY if offered a choice to subscribe or buy but DO NOT take away the option to buy.

As for subscriptions for software....what most people don’t realize is that there are benefits. As someone who has used adobe software for over 10 years, professionally, I was skeptical about the subscription model. I jumped on board day one with a bit of fear....and frankly realized that it was actually better in the long run, for me at least. As someone who shelled out for their Master Suite upgrade every year for work I’ve needed up spending less annually and getting more out of Creative Cloud. In addition, my capabilities are constantly evolving because when Adobe has a new feature or bug fix ready to go, they are not bound to a typical upgrade cycle. When it’s ready they release it then...instead of waiting for the next release date. On paper....subscriptions look terrible. However, there are benefits to them as well. Like has been stated, Adobe is in a place where it is in a place where it is basically a must have suite in design and film. You can’t look around without seeing some form of media developed with their software from, print to illustration to video.