PH makes subscriptions?

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Loque
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I am not really happy with this, but feel free to have your own thoughts. For 29€ you can have up to 3000€ devices per month.
https://shop.propellerheads.se/subscription/

[Moderator edit]
ReasonTalk did an interview with Propellerhead that might answer some of your questions. You can find it here:

https://www.reasontalk.com/2017/10/prop ... on-option/
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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CaliforniaBurrito
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Wow they really did it! :o

How does this affect developers?

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Creativemind
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Just over £8 a month on the standard one in English money, hmmmm, not a bad deal though. a €1000 worth of Re's. Sounds very tempting actually.

Just as long as Reason doesn't go down this road.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.25 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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CaliforniaBurrito
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Post 09 Oct 2017

So for $9 I can retrial some RE's. :D

This would be good for collaboration too.

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PhutureD
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Post 09 Oct 2017

This was only a matter of time, 3dsoftware started some this time ago in 2013 with announcements by Autodesk, the rest all followed except Lightwave, but Cinema4d and all the others followed suite, then Adobe ( which is very reasonable , for the amount of software and free stuff included , as well as phone apps, portfolio site ,etc) I reckon this is just a test , to see if the possible future model might work, whereby , no more upgrades is possible, only paid subscriptions and maintenance plans. Hopefully props does not go that drastic way, and only makes paid upgrades possible down to one or two versions early. But I am optimistic that they wait til I am only able to afford to upgrade my pc:) Too much speculating already and one can only wonder, as they are not saying anything and this surprise will no doubt come as a shock to most.Start praying now already that they don't go full subscription. :lol:

Ostermilk
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I'm no subscription fan, by any means, but applying this scheme to RE's may end up being a huge plus.

I'd be interested to see how this pans out for the RE format. Hopefully the devs that produce the RE's that create subscribers get properly recognized and rewarded as a result. That would be a win, win. As the flying burrito pointed out too, it's a real bonus when it's a project that has different people adding to it.

Having what you need when you need it, rather than ending up with a large collection of RE's that most times you don't need sounds worthy of consideration to me. If you spend anything over $120 on RE's in a year anyway it may even work out as being good value, given there is no residual asset in 'owning' a RE as it is.

Anyhow we'll see how it rolls from this point on.

Tumble
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Not even a fan of subscriptions either, but this looks well executed. You have reasonable prices and the ability to make custom bundles (TAKE NOTES, NI!). :thumbs_up:

I wonder if they're going to include VSTs later on.

Goodbye
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Post 09 Oct 2017

It's quite a good deal actually, but it makes Reason 10 even less appealing.

Strange they haven't even made an announcement.

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Loque
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Post 09 Oct 2017

The subscription work only on RE. Now this could be interesting for devs of VSTs to join the RE platform, because you get the shop and subscription platform given for a (small?) fee.

Going even further, this can be a sneak into future plans. (Speculating) PH makes it easier to port a VST into a RE this can be huge benefit for devs and to integrate non RE into the platform. Or maybe we will see a "VST locked into a wrapper" form for subscription-able VSTs. If this will work, it could be real benefit for PH. The only problem is, that the Reason user base may be small compared to other DAWs - not sure, if opening this door in a way of a RE to VST port or wrapper would be a good idea, thus the shop and subscription and all the RE can be used in other DAWs.

As i already mentioned, i am not that big fan of subscriptions. Considering all the RE i have, even the biggest model would not fit. If i dont own the devices, i need to buy them or wait one month to use them. And i dont want to be completely extradited to the future price politics of subscription models of platforms where no competitors are involved. And in the end its like rent something in general, you lose money and dont own it. Might be interesting, if the product changes and improves over time.

Guess, the future will tell us.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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Loque
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I just noticed, that there is a catgory for subscription called "Soundlibraries and presets". Maybe we see a follow up on the refill format with some kind of protection. Would be good for the devs.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

Goodbye
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I'm thinking this is paving the way for the iOS version - allows them to do In-app purchases for packages.

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Ixus
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Creativemind wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Just as long as Reason doesn't go down this road.
Indeed, I want to own the tools I use, not rent them.

Having access to a whole bunch of RE's isn't that appealing to me personally, I still havent tried all the stuff I got from the synthetic bundle a while back. But I dont mind this practice with RE's tho, I know there are some out there who cant get enough of them it seems :puf_bigsmile:

Sorped
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Ixus wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Creativemind wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Just as long as Reason doesn't go down this road.
Indeed, I want to own the tools I use, not rent them.

Having access to a whole bunch of RE's isn't that appealing to me personally, I still havent tried all the stuff I got from the synthetic bundle a while back. But I dont mind this practice with RE's tho, I know there are some out there who cant get enough of them it seems :puf_bigsmile:
I don't think anything is stopping you from buying REs, renting is just an extra option.
Alio Modo: SoundCloud
-----------
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Don't forget to back up your projects! :thumbs_up:

TritoneAddiction
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Ixus wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Creativemind wrote:
09 Oct 2017
Just as long as Reason doesn't go down this road.
Indeed, I want to own the tools I use, not rent them.

Having access to a whole bunch of RE's isn't that appealing to me personally, I still havent tried all the stuff I got from the synthetic bundle a while back. But I dont mind this practice with RE's tho, I know there are some out there who cant get enough of them it seems :puf_bigsmile:
Same here. I prefer to try a RE out, make a decision whether I want it or not and not having to think about it again. I too prefer to own my stuff instead of being in a constant renting mode. I'd rather pay a little more to own my REs.

But at the same time it's a good offer from Propellerhead for people interested in these things, especially for people just getting into Reason that want to see what REs are about.

I pretty much own everything I want in the PH shop already so it doesn't really add much value to me personally.

TritoneAddiction
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I do wonder how much the developers are making from these sort of deals. A good amount of mixed REs worth 400 bucks for 9 bucks and all the developers have to split the money. And then of course PH wants their piece too. It feels a little bit like they're just getting thrown into something they can't have a say in. But maybe it's good for them too. Would be interesting to get a developers perspective.

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Loque
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Post 09 Oct 2017

TritoneAddiction wrote:
09 Oct 2017
I do wonder how much the developers are making from these sort of deals. A good amount of mixed REs worth 400 bucks for 9 bucks and all the developers have to split the money. And then of course PH wants their piece too. It feels a little bit like they're just getting thrown into something they can't have a say in. But maybe it's good for them too. Would be interesting to get a developers perspective.
Interesting point. Considering a RE for 100€, you get a quarter (PH not counted) per month, so something around 2.25€, makes 24€ per year. You need 5 years to "sell" one license. This could be some kind of inspiration for some smart45535 to make their RE as expensive as possible.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

makke
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Normal rent, no so nice, but rent to own, that is awesome deal. Like serum does it. I hope more developers would add that option.

shropshirelad
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I don't see any T&C's on the page - I want to know if you can cancel sub at any time.

Goodbye
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Post 09 Oct 2017

The problem with this kind of model is that although it appears that you can pick and choose, you'll get backed into a corner quickly enough - people will pick out a few things. Use them on tracks, change their bundle to try new releases, then come back to the old tracks and realise they need REs that are no longer part of their bundle. This will push people to add the missing REs back and therefore push them up into the higher-paid subscriptions.

In many ways it runs against everything Reason has been designed to be - backwards compatible. OK the devices will still work, but the tracks themselves become totally bound to your subscription. You'll never unsubscribe because all your tracks will be swiss-cheesed with missing REs.

It is a one-way door and I would advise everyone to think very carefully before jumping through it.

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Kenni
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Post 09 Oct 2017

I don't see how this is a Propellerhead-specific issue though, or a reason to actually dislike this feature. I guess the issue you mention is only caused by people's inability to limit themselves?

To add to your example, this might actually be a perfect way for a lot of users to pick exactly what they need and just use regular trials to trial new RE's, and then sort the least needed stuff out of their subscriptions.
Goodbye wrote:
09 Oct 2017
The problem with this kind of model is that although it appears that you can pick and choose, you'll get backed into a corner quickly enough - people will pick out a few things. Use them on tracks, change their bundle to try new releases, then come back to the old tracks and realise they need REs that are no longer part of their bundle. This will push people to add the missing REs back and therefore push them up into the higher-paid subscriptions.

In many ways it runs against everything Reason has been designed to be - backwards compatible. OK the devices will still work, but the tracks themselves become totally bound to your subscription. You'll never unsubscribe because all your tracks will be swiss-cheesed with missing REs.

It is a one-way door and I would advise everyone to think very carefully before jumping through it.
Kenni Andruszkow
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TritoneAddiction
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Post 09 Oct 2017

€3000 worth of REs for €29 /month sounds like a really good deal at first. But the more I think about it the more I realize how terrible it would be for my actual music making. Instead of using what I have and know already I would become so obsessed trying out all those new REs (and that's A LOT of stuff) that I would have a hard time actually focusing on making any music. I would just feel stressed about not using all that stuff I pay for. Like what if only used 3 REs out of those 70 I'm paying for.
In reality it's not a big deal. It's still a good deal money wise. But it would become an instant stress factor and time waster for me to constantly having to check out REs and see what new stuff I should try.

Eh no thanks.

sdst
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Post 09 Oct 2017

i don't have problem with this, if you can get also the full thing

otherwise i would buy hardware

Goodbye
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Kenni wrote:
09 Oct 2017
I don't see how this is a Propellerhead-specific issue though, or a reason to actually dislike this feature. I guess the issue you mention is only caused by people's inability to limit themselves?

To add to your example, this might actually be a perfect way for a lot of users to pick exactly what they need and just use regular trials to trial new RE's, and then sort the least needed stuff out of their subscriptions.
Goodbye wrote:
09 Oct 2017
The problem with this kind of model is that although it appears that you can pick and choose, you'll get backed into a corner quickly enough - people will pick out a few things. Use them on tracks, change their bundle to try new releases, then come back to the old tracks and realise they need REs that are no longer part of their bundle. This will push people to add the missing REs back and therefore push them up into the higher-paid subscriptions.

In many ways it runs against everything Reason has been designed to be - backwards compatible. OK the devices will still work, but the tracks themselves become totally bound to your subscription. You'll never unsubscribe because all your tracks will be swiss-cheesed with missing REs.

It is a one-way door and I would advise everyone to think very carefully before jumping through it.
I think it is specific because this is a subscription for parts of the software, not the software itself. If people are down with the more expensive subscriptions and happy to commit to subscribe for their entire future usage of Reason then it is a potentially good deal. If not, it is potentially a nightmare waiting to happen.

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dioxide
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Great deal for a customer, but I'd be interested to see what devs think. I sell electronic products through an outlet that offers my products as an outright purchase and also as part of a subscription service. For some of the subscriptions I'm not even getting 0.10 USD. At the moment I'm planning on ending this part of the contract as it has been an experiment that has failed for the type of material I offer.

I think certain REs will be more difficult to justify developing. For instance there is a speech synthesizer in the shop. I bought it but it is something that rarely gets used. You could probably rent it for a month and get everything you need from it, with the developer only getting a fraction of this. So in some ways this model discourages development of those tools that you only occasionally need.

Goodbye
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Post 09 Oct 2017

Great deal for a customer, but I'd be interested to see what devs think. I sell electronic products through an outlet that offers my products as an outright purchase and also as part of a subscription service. For some of the subscriptions I'm not even getting 0.10 USD. At the moment I'm planning on ending this part of the contract as it has been an experiment that has failed for the type of material I offer.

I think certain REs will be more difficult to justify developing. For instance there is a speech synthesizer in the shop. I bought it but it is something that rarely gets used. You could probably rent it for a month and get everything you need from it, with the developer only getting a fraction of this. So in some ways this model discourages development of those tools that you only occasionally need.
I'd also be interested to know if developers can remove an RE from the subscription model if it doesn't being in the revenue they are expecting. This is potentially an expensive situation to someone who has heavily relied on an RE in their subscription that is removed.
Last edited by Goodbye on 09 Oct 2017, edited 2 times in total.

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